Bael's Bastard

I love movies, but it is kind of absurd to prefer characters in an epic series to go through their entire journeys in 2-3 hours. Technology has changed and it's no longer necessary to gut a story for lack of time.

I like this version of Dune for what it is. If they pull off the second just as well we will at least have a Dune that isn't embarrassing. But this version reminds me of statements by or reports of George saying that some had pitched films focusing on Jon and/or Dany and cutting out/down much of the rest. Paul is the main character of the first two books, but it's an ensemble cast, and the supporting characters were not given their necessary time, and couldn't have been in this format. A 10-13 episode series remains the only way to adapt Dune and do the important characters and concepts justice.

The minis did a great job story wise and definitely show Paul ruling over a genocidal empire and eventually becoming the prophet preaching against Muad'Dib, etc.

As someone that liked the movie, my biggest issue was along these lines. I was able to feel the connections because I have read the book, but I think the meaningfulness of a lot of characters suffered from cramming half the book into less than 3 hours. The death of Leto, even though we are openly shown the Baron plotting it from the beginning of the book, should feel like the death of Ned Stark. The death of Liet after he finally buys into Paul is a huge blow. Duncan they did pretty well with, but Yueh and Gurney suffered big time in this one. I don't think any of that could have been solved by doing the movie differently. The choice to stick with big screen film sealed that.

I watched with some book readers and some non-book readers, all of whom enjoyed the movie and thought the movie went by very quickly without dragging, so different people have very different ideas about whether it was too long or scene's were too long or whatever. It is probably my favorite book series, so I feel for what was left out or not portrayed as it could have been, but I am still very appreciative of what was accomplished.

The Bene Gesserit Missionaria Protectiva has spread superstitions, myths, and prophecies—like the Lisan al-Gaib on Arrakis—throughout the empire.

Dude, not even close. That is like suggesting someone making $40K/year could have saved enough to become a billionaire if they had just skipped the Starbucks and lunches out. Even if every single scene ran long, which I think is hyperbole, 2 1/2, or 3, or 3 1/2, or even 4 hours is not enough time to adapt Dune in any way worth doing. Even two 2 1/2 hour movies will fall well short of enough time to give the characters and story the bare minimum time they need to tell it right. I have made peace with the fact that this is going to fall well short of what it could have been as a series, and appreciate it for what it is, better looking than the mini series and closer to the book than the Lynch, but it already sacrificed quite a bit. Trying to cram the entire book into one movie would have been downright awful.

It's a lost opportunity, because this was all set up while AGOT was hot, and a series would have been perfect time and place with a just about perfect cast. It was easy to hope for a Dune remake some time soon when the Lynch was so far off, and when the mini series looked so cheesy, but with a great looking film likely to be successful enough to get a second, an attempt at a series is out of the question for a long time. I think a lot could have been kept in a 10 episode series. No doubt some would have been changed or left out, but you could even create some new scenes without losing too much that is important.

Read them if you must, but they are awful, including their "Dune 7" nonsense books. The Butlerian Jihad was more Luddite movement than SkyNet. Not to say it isn't considerable that some humans were using machines to actively subjugate or oppress people, but the issue was human use of AI, not AI going into business for itself.

There's no way it could have been a 3 hour film. They didn't even succeed in fitting enough of the first half of the book in to make characters like Leto, Liet, Gurney, Yueh, and Thufir as meaningful as they are supposed to be. Fitting the entire book into a 3 hour movie is like that idea someone apparently pitched of doing a single ASOIAF movie about Dany and/or Jon. Might as well not do it. I enjoyed this for what it is, but the director sacrificed a lot of the characters and story because of his preference for the big screen, which many of us didn't watch it on anyway because of the pandemic.

For what it was, I loved it. I could list a bunch of things they did differently or left out or didn't do as well as I think the book does it, but I am happy with the result and look forward to the second movie. The book readers and non-book readers I watched with all loved it (we watched at home with captions). It is sort of bittersweet though, because this was meant to be a 9-10 episode series, and with this cast and everything it would have been my favorite series ever, no question. I thought Duncan had a nice arc, but Kynes, Yueh, and Leto could have used more time to build their relationships with others. A show wouldn't have had to leave so much out or rush so much. But I think this accomplished about as much as you can trying to split Dune into just two movies. And it could have been a slow and plodding film, but the time went by very quickly.

Chill, Amanda Peet

I think you're over complicating things. The BF rebellion is just the Robert's Rebellion of ASOIAF, recent backstory for the current characters. Daemon, like Rhaegar, is best kept a dead man hated by some and beloved by others, who we learn about through them. Bittersteel is a much more interesting character in the first place. There's no real comparison with Ragnar, who was the central character, not to mention that had more to do with awful writing than anything. Not to say they couldn't tweak the timeline to have the BF rebellion occur during Dunk and Egg's time together, but I don't think that is a better story, or necessary.

I don't think it's made clear. Since Rhaegar and Elia wed in early 280, the presentation seems likely to have occurred between the last few months of 280 and first few months of 281. The fact that only Rhaegar is mentioned could indicate he went to make the presentation without Elia, or could indicate nothing at all.

He also had an aunt Jocelyn that married a Royce, and three cousins through her that married Vale lordlings. I doubt Rickard was an actual knight, but he was probably a northern equivalent, and was IMO definitely positively disposed towards southern cultures and traditions.

Ned promised Robert that he would look after his children, and indeed he intended to look after his bastards, and even to let his legal children escape danger. But he obviously had no intention of carrying out Robert's wishes as he expressed them. Ned has kept Jon safe from the people around Robert that would kill him in a heartbeat if they knew his paternal identity. But I absolutely expect to find out that Ned did not carry out the full extent of Lyanna's wishes as she expressed them. I highly doubt that Lyanna wanted Ned to raised Jon as his own son forever, and never tell him about her.

Not to mention that he had to violate his oath to his best friend Robert almost immediately following his accession to the kingship, in order to keep his promises to Lyanna, and to keep Jon's identity a secret for the past fifteen years.

The difference between stuff like Jon being listed as Ned's bastard/Cersei's kids being listed as Robert's children and Lyanna's place of death is that there is no hint Westeros knows or believes Lyanna died at the TOJ. The only suggestion it might have occurred there is in the fevre dream of one of the few characters that witnessed Lyanna's death. Which is why we have good reason to think that is where it occurred. Could the dream be conflating things that occurred at both the TOJ and Starfall? Sure. And the vague statements that Lyanna died in the Mountains of Dorne perhaps keep both possibilities alive. But for now, we have no reason to think the realities the contents of Ned's dream are based on are common knowledge to Westeros like Jon being Ned's bastard is.

While I am completely open to the possibility that Starfall had major involvement, I don't think we can just extrapolate that from Rhaegar and Arthur being close friends, and Arthur's brother being Lord of Starfall. We know the connections between families don't just magically sever when someone joins the KG, or NW, or whatever. Hence the rumors about Whent and his Lord brother re: the Harrenhal tourney, and Rhaegar's alleged informal great council. But during a literal rebellion where the king and prince have at best an on and off strained relationship, but possibly a much more strained relationship especially once Rhaegar goes missing with Lyanna, helping Rhaegar could mean House Dayne and Starfall being wiped out.

Let's also remember that Rhaegar had a number of likely noble companions with him when he set out. Not only the younger brother [and perhaps sister?] of the Lord of Starfall, but very likely the Lord of Griffin's Roost as well until some time before the Battle of the Bells, which is also relatively close to Rhaegar's favorite place Summerhall. We also don't know where Lonmouth was located, or whether he was among Rhaegar's companions during the abduction. It's not as though all of this is happening in some part of Westeros that Rhaegar and his companions are completely oblivious to.

Same

Does anyone think it likely that the same person informed Ned both that Lyanna was at the TOJ and that Rhaegar had called it the Tower of Joy?

Is the "Starfall" theory that Ned found both Lyanna and Jon at Starfall, or that Ned found Lyanna at the Tower of Joy and then recovered Jon at Starfall?

To those who believe Lyanna and Jon were at Starfall when Ned met them, why do you think the KG were at the TOJ? Did they merely intercept Ned there on his way to Starfall, or what?

Not sure if this has changed, but based on @Ran's comment, we are presumably at least six or seven months into 300 by the end of ADWD?