R + L = J v.167 in General (ASoIaF) Posted August 31, 2020 20 hours ago, HugorHell said: "Official" also has a fairly specific meaning to Martin that we can figure out. The reader knows, and has known since AGOT, that Cersei's children are not Robert's. It's a fact, not subject to debate, because Cersei openly admitted it when accused by Ned. But that fact is only known to the reader and a select few characters in the books. It is not known to Westeros at large. So if four books later, the ADWD appendix still lists Joffrey and Myrcella and Tommen as Robert's children, what does that mean? It means that the appendices are not supposed to reflect either objective truth or the knowledge in the reader's mind. They only reflect the knowledge in the minds of the general public of Westeros (which isn't privvy to what the reader has learned). It seems very likely that that same rule also applies to the new information in the app. And what the general public "knows" is not always going to be correct. (Though it is an interesting area of investigation how the public came to "know" it in some cases.) So for instance the app says Jon has five siblings: Robb, Sansa, Arya, Bran, Rickon. That is what is known to the public. But of course, all five of those statements are false if R+L=J. The app and R+L=J thus contradict each other, and those among us who believe R+L=J are already dismissing what the app says, because there is no other logical choice if we are going to believe R+L=J. So we cannot then say that different information in the app is evidence in support of our fan theories. We have already, in dismissing Jon's sibling info, admitted that app information is only evidence in support of what people in Westeros "know." Which isn't the same thing as fan theories at all. Of course. And if the family tree had ever been meant solely for him, it would obviously have remained solely for him and would not have been shared with anyone at all. Does the family tree say that Jon is Ned's bastard? I bet it does. The difference between stuff like Jon being listed as Ned's bastard/Cersei's kids being listed as Robert's children and Lyanna's place of death is that there is no hint Westeros knows or believes Lyanna died at the TOJ. The only suggestion it might have occurred there is in the fevre dream of one of the few characters that witnessed Lyanna's death. Which is why we have good reason to think that is where it occurred. Could the dream be conflating things that occurred at both the TOJ and Starfall? Sure. And the vague statements that Lyanna died in the Mountains of Dorne perhaps keep both possibilities alive. But for now, we have no reason to think the realities the contents of Ned's dream are based on are common knowledge to Westeros like Jon being Ned's bastard is.