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Mithras

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  1. As for this episoe I've been struggling to come up with a suitable reason why LF would want to ally with The Boltons. All I can come up with is revenge, not just for Sansa but for himself. Roose slit the throat of the woman he loved. I think he still hoped that with Ned out of the way he could woo Catelyn. But Roose ended that desire.

    It looks like the Boltons will not stand against Stannis in the show. So, LF must prevent Stannis taking the North because after the North, his next target will be the Vale. Stannis has no reason to ally with LF and many reasons to burn him alive. So, LF is giving the Boltons what they need to stand against Stannis. He is using the Boltons to get rid of Stannis. If they defeat Stannis, LF will no doubt find a way to ditch the Boltons too.

  2. For the record;



    There are seven gods at the Hall of the Black Pool.



    1. Lion of Night sitting in a throne (easy to identify)


    2. Next to him is the Black Goat of Qohor (even easier to identify - Hello Baphomet, long time no see)


    3. At the other side of the Lion of Night, we have the Weeping Lady of Lys with water trickling down her eyes (the man who drank from the black pool died at her feet). Ellaria in the books worships this goddess.


    4. The fiery heart of the Red God is also obvious.


    5. The stone face is supposed to be a weirwood face.


    6. The standing hooded figure who turned his/her back is the Stranger (note that it is supposed to be gender indeterminate)


    7. And finally, the misshapen, grotesque thing at the other side of the Stranger is the Drowned God. This was the only surprise for me.


  3. Enough time for Ser Shadrich to have left and let RLers know Sansa is there so Brienne + Jaimie can go fetch her :)

    I think Brienne champions Jaime in the trial by combat and saves his lame ass. Then, Jaime gets free but Brienne is stuck with UnCat until she remembers that Cat swore to let her go should Brienne asks to avenge Renly. So, Brienne will leave UnCat and head North to make that attempt.

  4. The timeline for the last couple books is extremely unreliable and that counts double for Sansa.

    George's biggest mistake was to sacrifice the chronology in favor of telling a seemingly more complete story in the First Act (AGoT-ACoK-ASoS). He should have sticked to the chronology and introduced ironborn-Dorne chapters in ASoS. Meanwhile, some ASoS material ahead of other events should be spared to AFfC.

    George is now struggling with the problems of his own creation.

  5. There will be four characters to die this season, who are still alive in the books.



    My guesses based on the trailers and released set pictures:



    1. Mance (died in the First Episode, and for real).


    2. Barristan (missing from the Pit scene)


    3. Grey Worm (looked quite dead while Missandei kissing him)


    4. Bronn (sadly, his time in the series is done. He is not returning from Dorne)



    Therefore, Shireen will be saved from the pyre.

  6. “You lie,” he said. “All men lie when they are afraid. Some tell many lies, some but a few. Some have only one great lie they tell so often that they almost come to believe it . . . though some small part of them will always know that it is still a lie, and that will show upon their faces.”



    “Lord Robert mislikes strangers, you know that, and there will be drinking, noise . . . music. Music frightens him.”


    “Music soothes him,” she corrected, “the high harp especially. It’s singing he can’t abide, since Marillion killed his mother.” Alayne had told the lie so many times that she remembered it that way more oft than not; the other seemed no more than a bad dream that sometimes troubled her sleep.



    Alayne spoke up. “His singing pleased her greatly, and she showed him too much favor, perhaps. When she wed my father he went mad and pushed her out the Moon Door. Lord Robert has hated singing ever since. He is still fond of music, though.”


  7. Sorry if I'm discussing something already talked of. It occurred to me when watching the Small Council scene that the writers had a specific reason for sending Meryn Trant to Braavos given Arya's mention of him on her list. Does this have anything to do with "Mercy" do you think?

    Even before the series is aired, it was speculated from the set news that Arya would kill Meryn in Braavos. The question is, will she kill Mace too? I think it is very likely. I believe book!Mace will be slain shortly in batle by JonCon, so omitting JonCon means there is no use for Mace. This is also necessary to move the plot forward to the downfall of the Tyrells and Margaery's execution (it is coming).

  8. Aren't there still a lot of caches from Aerys II's reign left undiscovered, hidden throughout King's Landing? All of them growing more unstable over time, so that a jolt or heat can set it off (and to top it off, they can cause chain reactions)? She would just have to find one of those.

    Most of them were discovered, transported and used in Blackwater. There still seems to be some caches beneath the Red Keep. While Varys was smuggling Tyrion out, he put out his torch at a certain section. The point of the wildfire plot was to destroy the invading host along with the city. So, if Cersei sees that as the only option to stand against Dany or fAegon marching on the KL, she will order new wildfire caches to be made and planted across the city.

  9. She doesn't really have to be in charge for that... Could be that she escapes imprisonment only to burn down the city, or hides and comes back later or something :dunno:

    Then again, there's nothing saying the city and keep has to remain around the Iron Throne when these others are sitting on it :lol:

    I'm pretty sure Dany will arrive after the burning of King's Landing though... tho that's mostly based on that scene from House of the Undying in the show, where she walked through the ruins of the Red Keep while ash (or snow?) fell from above. Can't remember if it's mentioned in the books as well, but I don't think so?

    Yes she does. Otherwise, how can she order the pyromancers produce more wildfire and Qyburn assist their deployment process secretly?

  10. Can you please explain how you see her story then? And why? As in, what is there in the actual text to support your reading of her particular arc.

    I posted how she will slay LF here and in many places including this very thread, I posted how she will end up in KL and what she can do there.

    As for how Sansa's story in KL will be tied up along with other major characters, I posted this in another thread:

    Part 1: Jaime kills Cersei

    “Lord Hallyne has assured me that his pyromancers can control the fire.” The Guild of Alchemists had been brewing fresh wildfire for a fortnight. “Let all of King’s Landing see the flames. It will be a lesson to our enemies.”

    “Now you sound like Aerys.”

    Her nostrils flared. “Guard your tongue, ser.”

    “I love you too, sweet sister.”

    How could I ever have loved that wretched creature? she wondered after he had gone. He was your twin, your shadow, your other half, another voice whispered. Once, perhaps, she thought. No longer. He has become a stranger to me.

    She thought of Joffrey, clawing at his neck. In his last moments he had looked to her in desperate appeal, and a sudden memory had stopped her heart; a drop of red blood hissing in a candle flame, a croaking voice that spoke of crowns and shrouds, of death at the hands of the valonqar.

    “And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.”

    Tyrion slid a hand under his father’s chain, and twisted. The links tightened, digging into her neck. “For hands of gold are always cold, but a woman’s hands are warm,” he said.

    “No more than I want Joy to marry the son of some scheming turncloak bitch. She deserves better.” Jaime would happily have strangled the woman [sybell Westerling] with her seashell necklace.

    Note that a single hand is enough to strangle someone with a necklace. Jaime will strangle Cersei with the Hand's chain necklace.

    Part 2: Cersei kills Jaime

    I thought that I was the Warrior and Cersei was the Maid, but all the time she was the Stranger, hiding her true face from my gaze.

    “Prince Aemon the Dragonknight [parallel to Jaime] cried the day Princess Naerys [parallel to Cersei] wed his brother Aegon,” Sansa Stark said, “and the twins Ser Arryk and Ser Erryk died with tears on their cheeks after each had given the other a mortal wound.”

    Part 3: Jaime and Cersei must die together

    I cannot die while Cersei lives, he told himself. We will die together as we were born together.

    “My queen,” said Qyburn, “have you... forgotten? Ser Jaime has no sword hand. If he should champion you and lose...”

    We will leave this world together, as we once came into it. “He will not lose. Not Jaime. Not with my life at stake.”

    “Jaime? Have you had word?”

    “None. Cersei, you may need to prepare yourself for—”

    “If he were dead, I would know it. We came into this world together, Uncle. He would not go without me.”

    Part 4: Operation Free the Bird

    “I have made kings and unmade them. Sansa Stark is my last chance for honor.” Jaime smiled thinly. “Besides, kingslayers should band together.”

    True knights.” The queen seemed to find that wonderfully amusing. “No doubt you’re right. So why don’t you just eat your broth like a good girl and wait for Symeon Star-Eyes [parallel of Brienne] and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight [parallel of Jaime] to come rescue you, sweetling. I’m sure it won’t be very long now.”

    Sansa turned toward the sept. Two stableboys [foreshadowing to Arya and Pod] followed, and one of the guards whose watch was ended [foreshadowing to Jon]. Others fell in behind them.

    “If it is Sandor Clegane that we encounter, what would you have me do?”

    Pray hard, Jaime thought, and run. “Send him to join his beloved brother and be glad the gods made seven hells. One would never be enough to hold both of the Cleganes.”

    Near the kennels a group of men-at-arms were fighting a pair of dogs. Tyrion stopped long enough to see the smaller dog tear half the face off the larger one, and earned a few coarse laughs by observing that the loser now resembled Sandor Clegane.

    You stupid girl, the queen thought, angry even now. Jaime does not even know you are alive. Back then her brother lived only for swords [Arya] and dogs [sandor] and horses [brienne]... and for her, his twin.

    He looked south, and saw the great blue-green rush of the Trident. He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief. He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. There were shadows all around them. One shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound [=Sandor]... Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful [=Jaime]... Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood [=UnGregor].

    “I’ve heard his lordship say this war began when the Hand sent him out to bring the king’s justice to Gregor Clegane, and that’s how he means for it to end.”

    So, here is my take for the great showdown (although I am still thinking about the details):

    1. Dany will defeat Dorne as the last stronghold of fAegon and ride to the KL.

    By this time, Cersei and Myrcella will still be in charge at the KL. Neither Dany nor fAegon will have the opportunity or desire to take the KL while their rival lives.

    Sansa will be a hostage of Cersei.

    The Mad Queen will reactivate the wildfire plot of Aerys.

    Arya (having killed Varys in KL already and see UnGregor), will assemble a rescue team to get Sansa out of there before it is too late. UnGregor will be a serious problem.

    Since they will know that UnGregor is a serious problem, Arya will recruit Sandor to face him. Brienne and Pod will also be in the team. Jaime will help them from inside. I think Cersei will also command Jaime to slay the intruders, especially Brienne whom she will be rightfully suspicious of having an affair with Jaime. I am not completely sure whether Jon will join this team but I will not be surprised if he does. After all, UnGregor is a creature of necromancy, a threat to the Realm and his vows allow him to deal with this monster.

    Arya will lead the team through secret passages. They will manage to slay UnGregor but Sandor will not survive the fight, though he will have his revenge. Pod will slay another KG (Osmund perhaps) but he will also take mortal wounds and die upon Sansa's feet.

    Jaime will go into the throne room and strangle Cersei. Since he only has a single hand, Cersei will manage to draw his dagger and mortally wound him.

    This time, the rescue team will not be able to stop the pyromancers.

    The KL will burn.

    I will not be surprised if Arya dies in the confrontation, possibly staying by the wounded and dying Sandor while the wildfire rages around them and the ceiling collapses over them.

    “Prince Aemon the Dragonknight cried the day Princess Naerys wed his brother Aegon,” Sansa Stark said, “and the twins Ser Arryk and Ser Erryk died with tears on their cheeks after each had given the other a mortal wound.”

    “Be quiet, or I’ll have Ser Meryn give you a mortal wound,” Joffrey told his betrothed.

    If this quote is foreshadowing, I fear Sansa might get a mortal wound too, though perhaps Bran might save her.

    Ned tried a swallow. “Dregs.” He felt as though he were about to bring the wine back up.

    “All men must swallow the sour with the sweet. High lords and eunuchs alike. Your hour [The Hour of the Wolf] has come, my lord.”

    “My daughters…”

    It was late at night, during the hour of the wolf, when the remaining lords departed the council chamber, leaving Maegor to brood alone. Early the next morning, he was found dead on the throne, his robes sodden with blood, his arms slashed open by the barbs of the Iron Throne.

    Lord Cregan Stark held sway at court. This came to be known as the Hour of the Wolf.

    Ned was concerned for his daughters. Ned’s spirit might ask Jon to save them when the time comes. The Hour of the Wolf represents a Stark coming down to the KL, kicking ass, doing justice and leaving. Also noteworthy that Maegor (Cersei's parallel) was last seen alive during the hour of the wolf.

  11. Narratively, Sansa becoming a ruling queen and a player does not make sense. It is only seeing things that are not there in Sansa's story. She didnot accomplish anything, she didnot learn anything, she didnot show any light. LF is simply toying with her.



    "You are such a little fool" is in fact directed to Sansa Alayne in this chapter.


  12. I don't think Sansa will be kidnapped and brought back to KL by Shadrich - or, if it does happen, it is bad writing, and here is why I think so:

    1) Why should Sansa trust Shadrich? She learned that lesson with Dontos. (Who, btw, I think sincerely wanted to help her on some level at the same time he was in the pay of LF. I think Dontos trusted LF too well himself - LF probably told him, "I'm a dear, close friend of Sansa's mother and I only want the best for Sansa!") I don't think she's going to be sneaking off to meet Shadrich in the godswood, or wherever, anytime soon.

    2) The circumstances are against it. As I and others have pointed out, it's not easy to sneak people into or out of the Gates of the Moon, especially now with LF having Gulltown's ports closed. The reason the Great Spring Sickness did not affect the Vale was that it is easy to cut off access in and out of it.

    3) LF got Sansa out of KL by taking advantage of the pandemonium surrounding Joffrey's death, and he had help (Dontos, a boat, etc.). Sansa was unwatched and unguarded. "Alayne" is surrounded by Petyr, Sweetrobin, Myranda, and, soon, eight Winged Knights.

    4) Speaking of which - if "Alayne" disappears, the tantrum Sweetrobin will throw will be heard all the way in Dorne. He is going to command those Winged Knights of his to "FIND ALAYNE! OR I WILL MAKE YOU FLY!"

    5) Yet Another Hostage In KL Arc would be repetitive and, frankly, bad writing. We've been there and done that and the plot needs to move forward.

    6) The only people who are interested in trying Sansa for regicide are dead (Tywin, Kevan) or imprisoned and disgraced (Cersei). I don't think the Tyrells want a trial, as they are too busy with rescuing Margaery, dealing with Ironborn, and propping up their own rule in the capital. If they want Sansa, it's to get her to marry Willas for real this time; as far as they know, she's still the heiress to Winterfell and potentially Riverrun as well. Shadrich's going to be mighty disappointed if he expects Lannister gold in exchange for Sansa.

    If Shadrich is in the pay of Varys, then Sansa is not headed to Cersei and KL, but to wherever Aegon is, possibly for another Stark/Martell/Targaryen love triangle (oh please noooooo). Or, possibly, to Highgarden to marry Willas, if Varys is trying to get in the Tyrells' good books. GRRM has said we'll see Highgarden in TWOW - maybe it will be through Sansa.

    Crossing my fingers for no backtracking to KL for Sansa...

    Since I believe she will decide to go with Shadrich just after she slays LF when he tries to rape her, many of your points will be invalid.

    1) With a dead LP in the room, she will not have much options. The cronies of LF will certainly not like the death of LF because it will deprive them of income. So, they will have no sympathy for Sansa. Besides, Sansa lied to them a lot. None of the Vale Lords will have much reason to trust her at that point, or at least Sansa will believe it so. She didnot trust them either, that is why she lied about Marillion.

    2) I already argued why they can get out of the Vale secretly.

    3) After the death of LF, a similar pandemonium will happen, especially if Harry is dead too.

    4) Winged Knights will fly.

    5) "To go forward you must go back." This time everything will be different. Sansa has to overcome her fear of Cersei and the only way to do that is to face her.

    6) Sansa is too dangerous and precious to be left alone. Varys can make good use of her and Varys is in KL. Cersei not only offers gold but lordship as well.

  13. It serves the purpose of jolting the status quo and perhaps causing Sansa to reevaluate her situation, if she's not necessarily pretending to be "Alayne" anymore and that whole headspace goes away. Or it could mean any number of other things.

    Conversely, what purpose or sense does it make to have Sansa embarking on a lengthy travelogue or imprisonment away from the stage GRRM has spent a decent amount of time setting up for her, where she can practice court intrigue and interact with factions that she may have some leverage with?

    She will display her skills in KL when she becomes a prisoner of Cersei again. She has a trial to win. She can play some cards like Cersei's mistrust to the Tyrells, their secret dealings with the LF, and she might denounce Rickon as an impostor as he will be supporting Stannis. At the same time, she might make quick alliances with Marg or Tyene.

    I think Sansa is supposed to be the Younger and More Beautiful Queen (if such a thing is not a product of Cersei's schizophrenic mind) and she can do that only in the KL.

  14. Nothing suggests Ser Galladon or Ser Morgarth are there with Ser Shadrich.

    LF told Sansa that their gallantry is yet to be proven. Shadrich was looking for partners. That much he offered to Brienne.

    So, something suggests that Shadrich might have found what he was looking for. That does not mean that Galladon and Morgarth are Varys' pets too. They might be simple tools recruited by Shadrich and he will get himself rid of them after they serve their purpose.

    You seem to have an awfully unrealistic idea of the ease of sending messages in Westeros. All evidence points to the fact that he is there alone and without any help. I'm not saying he is not working for Varys (I don't have an opinion on that tbh) but even if he is, that doesn't make getting out of the Vale any easier.

    If Varys started killing people that could be annoyance to fAegon, we can expect him to concentrate his spies on LF and the Vale, even if he didnot have enough spies already positioned.

    A lot of smuggling should be taking place in the Fingers, considering the geography.

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