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Tyrion1991

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  1. Tyrion1991

    Season 8 Predictions?

    But doesn't GRRM talk a lot about people choosing their matches for love bringing doom and death? For example in Arrianes POV she says of Dany that young girls always prefer dashing rogues to good boys who do their duty. This is in reference to Quentyn and her rebutting him could ruin her plans to win House Martel. Now, in books you could argue Jon Snow IS one of the good boys who does his duty but Iam not remotely convinced; I think GRRM intended him to be an "I will not bow before some ranger from the North" character. He's Aragon and especially on the show he's very much an idealised hero. He is the guy you want to be. So Dany loving Jon could bring doom and death for future generations. Marrying for love and incest has arguably caused the downfall of House targaryen and killed millions. Surely the bittersweet thing is for Dany to deny her heart for the sake of others?
  2. Tyrion1991

    Season 8 Predictions?

    But isn't the point that it would be the perfect political alliance if it weren't for the incest? Dany gets to unite the realm and be alongside the man she loves. Aragon and Arwen. It's too perfect. GRRM has, I think subverted the "hidden royal lineage" trope. Instead of it being something great that brings people together, it creates chaos and breaks what should have been a good thing. The show hasn't normalised incest. Craster. Joffrey. Targaryens generally. If you wanted to normalise incest you would play it down or avoid mentioning it. Indeed all the ills of the world can be traced to Cersei and Jamie's incest love. Basically, they already spent a season falling in love. The incest reveal has to be something to tear them apart.
  3. Tyrion1991

    Season 8 Predictions?

    OP I think they might be trying to mislead people with Jorah/Dany. Most of the second half of season 7 involved a lot Jorah seemingly acquiescing or even approving the budding relationship between Jon and Dany. Even to the point of the whole talk over Longclaw about kids. So its very much stressing that he is gracefully stepping aside and letting the better man come in. But, by the same token, this went hand in hand with them really pushing the relationship as this sweet and beautiful thing. Which in turn, is subverted at the end with the reveal that she is his Aunt. Making the relationship incest. Judging by Inside the Episode and the way it was shot and the whole "we have to tell him"; this is not going to end well. D&D even spelt this out emphatically "shes his aunt" and how what seemed so perfect and able to solve everything won't work out. Which I think means they must have been trying to throw us off, by implying that this was the final nail in the coffin for Jorah getting with Daenerys. But it can't be if Jon/Dany isn't going to pan out. Which itself raises the possibility that, actually Dany is going to end up with the guy whos been by her side from the beginning. Why would this happen? Three scenarios: 1. Jorah full on confesses his love for Dany and she returns his affection: In the show he actually hasn't done this. In season 7, there are a few moments, like at the beach where he's about to say something but cuts it short instead when Jon shows up. Plus when he learnt that Dany was going with Jon and the boat he did look a bit forlorn. So perhaps he decides to say how he actually feels and with all that's happening, end of the world, etc etc Dany does actually feel something and returns his love. A bit like the scene from A Storm of Swords only, it works out. 2. The Northern Lords/Vale/Riverlands makes their allegiance to Dany conditional on her marrying a Northern Lord Its already been teased that the Northern Lords, Vale and presumably Riverlords will have a problem with the Mad Queens Daughter. Sansa is clearly going to take exception to this. They all objected to Jon going, especially Lyanna Mormont. So they don't like Dany and adamantly want a free North. Now, Jon marrying Dany is the perfect get out of dodge thing here. But, D&D have made it clear that this Aragon/Arwen thing that solves everything won't happen because incest. So if she can't marry a Stark, then surely they will insist on the next best compromise which is that Dany marry a good Northern Lord to reassure them that their interests will be looked after. Which is a very short list when you think about it. Dany already told Daario that she was fully prepared to marry somebody for duty and to secure the realm. If she has to marry a Northerner to win over three realms then; may as well be Jorah. Which would be hilarious. Just think, who is most likely to be shouting this at Dany? Lyanna Mormont. Which means Dany can just drop the mike when she says she going to marry her cousin. 3. The Incest Child Okay hear me out on this next one. There was a lot of baby talk in season 7. There is very likely to be an incest baby inbound. However, they can't marry because of incest. The child will be a fatherless bastard because the secret has to be kept. This will cause big problems for Dany. Yes, she can legitimise bastards but this has risks and the very fact the father isn't known could lead people to suspect the truth that its Jon's child and that could in turn lead to the darker truth of the child being born of incest. Nobody, especially not the child, must know. So what Dany needs. - Is somebody with Northern blood to explain the childs features. - Somebody willing to raise another mans child. (which would be hilarious after the sword conversation with Jon) - Somebody who can keep a secret. - Somebody who she can convincingly turn around and say she had a relationship with. Some Northerner in her retinue who always by her side perhaps? Now a lot of this third one depends on Jon and theres A LOT of variables to that. He might die facing the Night King in single combat. He might not know he had a son by Dany as she might conceal it from him. He might go along with the lie out of respect for Danys wishes. It would be an interesting parallel to Ned and himself and a way of bringing the story full circle. BTW: Given how awesome the She Bears are it would be really great if Dany and Jorah had a daughter.
  4. Its probably the most irrelevant battle on the show ever. All the other big battles have had major ramifications and have seriously changed the direction of the series. But rather than reversing the endless series of catastrophes inflicted by Euron's 1000 teleporting ships and the Lannisters 250,000 invisible men steam roll everything; it simply ends with Dany & Co having to beg Cersei to help them. There was a lot of Dothraki that bowed before Dany last season and I am pretty sure her allies had more men by themselves. Plus I still call bull on Euron, even in the books I do not understand where the Greyjoys get 1000 ships from; its an obscene number. So burning all the grain in the Reach - Irrelevant. Killing Lannister soldiers - Irrelevant. More will rise from the pits of Isengard. Cersei gets the gold anyway Cersei doesn't lose any territory, unlike Dany Cersei doesn't lose any major allies, unlike Dany Jamie stays loyal until the whole "risks the dead winning" thing and he is just one man. So yeah it contributed a little towards Jamie leaving Cersei. Big deal, losing him is going to clearly make all difference for her. Tarly dead - Who cares there were a lot more Southern Lords ready to fight Dany. Obviously Dany has committed some horrific and monstrous act against the Reach Lords like getting a load of them in a Church and blowing it up. Oh wait, yeah that's good Queen Cersei. A few hundred Lannisters bend the knee. Again who cares, the pits of Isengard will spring forth more of these abominations. Which is a little cruel actually since Uruk Hai are actually cool and impressive as opposed to men with free will to do good but choose to be rapists, thieves, murderers and join the army which committed the Red Wedding. Much more evil than Orcs. From a story telling perspective the battle had no relevance or importance. Nothing changes. The Lannisters are still winning. Still more powerful. No land changes hands. The Southern Lords are still universal in their hatred of Dany; because reasons.
  5. Do people really think that the show is going to invalidate Danny's claim to the throne on the basis of gender? Dany has spent her entire arc fighting to become Queen. Jon literally just found out he has a better claim in part 1 of the last season. The audience has invested in Dany claiming the throne and if Jon can't or won't marry Dany then the get out of jail card won't work. I can't see why they would invalidate Danny's entire arc just to allow Jon to be King of the North AND a Targaryen King; which we have been given no reason to want to see.
  6. Tyrion1991

    [Spoilers] EP707 Discussion

    Dammit Arthas, do you not understand the meaning of the word restraint!
  7. Tyrion1991

    [Spoilers] EP707 Discussion

    So clearly Cersei has more soldiers than Daenerys, the North, Vale and the support of all the Lords of Westeros? How else can you explain her still being in a position to dictate terms to Dany and for her participation to be so crucial. I mean, why does it matter if the crazy woman in the capital doesn't support them?
  8. Okay, seriously, to all the reviewers still saying that "oh Dany made the right call on exiling Jorah". “Emotionally for me it was so intricate,” Clarke says. “Jorah’s been with me since day one, season one. The scene itself is unpleasant because I — Emilia — know that what Dany is doing is wrong, And it was the first time I’ve ever felt that.” http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/01/emilia-clarke-dany-ser-jorah/ Its a mistake, its all part of her downwards spiral into ADWD territory, which, of course, she will bounce back from. But its good to have your heroes actually put on the back foot and make mistakes. A lot of reviews I've seen act like Dany can do no wrong and every decision she takes is meant to be the right choice as she is a great ruler. No, that is not what HBO are doing. I honestly think that it is going to take caging the dragons for them to really start criticizing her and get what HBO has been trying to hammer into people the whole season.
  9. Yep, they managed to make Dany look like an ungrateful bitch whos making the wrong decision. For me they really needed to hammer home how betrayed and hurt she was over the fact that her bear did this to her. Plus, Jorah is a lot more contrite than he is in the books and doesn't argue with Daenerys "us sewer rats saved your city" where hes indignant with her. As it is, Dany, especially at the end of the scene, comes across as way too hateful how shes staring him down. In the books, she can't bring herself to look at him as hes dragged out and has to excuse herself because shes that upset about it. Indeed, when she first hears about his spying (which we don't see in the show admittedly) shes reduced to tears. Plus, the part where Dany says "don't you ever dare presume to touch me or call me by name". That is true to the books and I am sort of glad it was put in. But it makes no sense in the context of the show as its specifically referring to the chapter where he kissed her and called her Daenerys. Jorah in the show has never once, that I can think of called her by name or presumed to touch her. So this just comes across as a venomous retort whereas in the books its making reference to his prior bad conduct. A far better line, especially in light of last weeks argument, would have been to retain when she says "you told me to trust nobody else but you", yet the show conspicuously removed those lines. Theres also not the same of sense of shock when she repeatedly asks him if he told them about Drogos child. In the books this is something which it takes a few chapters for her to realize this and its "something unspeakable occured to her". Indeed, when she initially finds out about the spying she refuses to believe it. But in this scene, there is no sense of shock or disbelief, which makes it seem like Dany is far too quick to pass judgement and doesn't take it any where near as badly. This was not a moment for the imperious Queen routine and it really harmed Danys portrayal. Its particularly worrying because the "inside the episode" videos lay such stress on how betrayed and hurt Dany is but they've specifically removed those aspects from the books in their adaptation and focused exclusively on the arrogant stern Queenly figure passing judgement. Plus, in the background, this is obviously a forgery by Tywin Lannister due to his lines last week in the council and because in the show we saw Jorah get given the real pardon in season 1. So it actually is a forgery even if it is true. The show even hammers the point home by having Jorah point out that creating discord is in the interests of Tywin. Its like big flashing lights shouting "Danys making a stupid mistake" and this really colors her actions in a negative in what should be a very personal matter. In this context its obvious that Dany should just keep Jorah on and simply end how close they are too eachother due to their broken trust. Exiling him is not in her interests and whilst that might be also true in the books GRRM is much more subtle and point isn't really made until ADWD after the decision that Jorah was kind of useful to have around.
  10. Tyrion1991

    [Book Spoilers] EP407 Discussion

    I thought the Dany scenes were a mixed bag. It was good to see her relationship with Daario and this cause tension between her and Jorah. This is what happens in the books. Also I totally called it on Jorah being a member of the Golden Company. :cool4: The problem I had is that they start arguing by about his "disapproval" and rather than calling out the heart of the issue (Jorah is jealous and loves her) like she does in the book, it sort of drifts into a morality lesson about the slavers. So we end up having a totally different conversation. It felt very odd and jarring, almost as if they wrote this as two separate scenes and then decided to mash them together. You could say that Dany and the audience are fully aware why Jorah does not approve of Daario; but in the books Dany is much more direct and blunt with Jorah over this issue. Jorah comes across more as a disapproving father figure than being jealous of Danys lover. Really Dany shouldn't entertain such a facade and would confront him with the real reason for his objections. Also, it does really feel rather late in the day to be having Jorah act jealous around Daario. Especially since he shouldn't even be in Meereen at this point. Plus and I was reserving judgement from a previous scene but the show has made it much clearer now. In the books, Dany makes the decision to act defensively, to turn away from war and DOES NOT attempt to nip the Yunkish problem in the bud. She COULD have done this. Many, many reviewers and readers of ADWD would say that she was weak and made many mistakes in not confronting the slavers directly early on. This is a huge deviation from the books and frankly is an attempt to shift blame. D&D is aware that Danys ADWD arc took flack for her being weak and vaciliating with her inaction. So they are putting this down to Jorahs bad advice which makes her follow the path of weakness; when in the novels Jorah tells her to get out of dodge...twice...once as a ghost. He does not tell her to be gentle with the slavers. It also creates a huge problem going forward. When Jorah gets exiled, why on earth would Dany continue to follow his prior advice and stay in Meereen to rule as a Queen peacefully? Surely she would adopt a warlike path of violence as is her clear and obvious preference on the show without Jorah telling her otherwise. Unless they continue to alter Danys ADWD arc the show could end up with really muddying the waters about Danys behavior and actions.
  11. Tyrion1991

    [Book Spoilers] EP404 Discussion

    Yeah I am sorry but I find it very, very hard to believe that the Others can't be evil having seen that scene. You could not have conveyed them as more menacing and evil. The Nights King was almost vampiric.
  12. Tyrion1991

    [Book Spoilers] EP404 Discussion

    I almost wouldn't mind if they had at least done the scene where he kissed Dany. I would have chalked a lot of the rest down to lack of time which has affected the rest of the characters. But not a thirty second scene. Why bother having him talk to Barristan to re-establish that he loves Daenerys rather than do the book scene where he actually tries (and most importantly fails) to do something about it. There is no logic to that decision at all. That and his exile are the two most important Jorah scenes. By far. To cut one of them out for no other reason than laziness or dislike of the character is beyond me. Yes, dragging Tyrion to Meereen is important in terms of the plot but frankly anyone could have done that for any reason. Those are the two most important scenes. Like the hound asking to take Sansa away and him dying by the road with Arya. Every time Dany thinks about Jorah in ADWD or Jorahs actual actions throughout ADWD, are defined by these two scenes and will continue to be so into Winds of Winter. No, they won't build it up. Theres way too much going on in terms of the dragons, Danys relationship with Daario and the downward spiral of Danys fortunes. This is going to be a random reveal thats handled over one episode.
  13. Tyrion1991

    [Book Spoilers] EP404 Discussion

    An inferior version to the books in every way. You don't just have that scene in isolation. Its the culmination of every Dany/Jorah scene in the series. Most of which happens in ASOS. Most of which D&D cut and replaced with..nothing. Hes been basically mindlessly following Dany for 2 seasons as a glorified extra. You don't just leap into a big scene like that without ANY set up or build up.
  14. Tyrion1991

    [Book Spoilers] EP404 Discussion

    Why? You said it yourself the "character" of Jorah in the show is a joke. Joke characters don't get sympathy. I imagine they'll be making more memes and funny videos about it.
  15. Tyrion1991

    [Book Spoilers] EP404 Discussion

    A joke character nobody gives a shit about. How is learning he was a spy going to leave Dany in tears as it does in the novels? He has had every single last scene from ASOS involving him cut. He says "Rhaegar fought"... and thats it. Theres no scene where he kisses her. There isn't the tension and hostility between him and Dany. Like when she slaps him in the face in the docks of Astapor. There isn't him taking Dany to one side and telling her not to trust the other men around her. Theres no him being a hypocrite who looks bad. There aren't tender moments between him and her or when shes clearly cares for him. Like when he (not Daario BTW) returns from the Battle of Yunkai and she praises him or when she says that he has been like a brother to her but his jealousy will not do. That is much more than some joke character that nobody gives a shit about. You really think people are going to give a shit about "ser friendzone" getting exiled or understand if Dany gives a shit? Now its one thing if you, Ellio and co on this site enjoy heaping praise on these changes that give Grey Worm to do. Well, I don't agree. Obviously you, like D&D, detested the book scenes between Dany and Jorah so you're perfectly glad they were cut. Fine, thats your opinion. Go roll with it.
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