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Tyrion1991

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Everything posted by Tyrion1991

  1. Who was Jorahs mother and what happened to her?
  2. Well, that happened. This is the capstone that has ruined the series for me: - They go full Disney after killing Dany and every character gets a happy ending. - The show asserts that there would not be negative consequences to killing Dany. No Jon death. No vengeance on the Starks. The series has stressed the issues of unintended consequences. - The show ties itself in a knot by killing Dany. They are trying to make the point that violence is bad and pursuit of power is bad. But then have the entire issue solved by “oh if we kill the bad people then the good will rise to the top”. This undercuts the entire morality. - The wise council elects a King? No. Just no. - Elective monarchies like the Holy Roman Empire and Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth were disasters. The show runners are ignorantly assuming that hereditary monarchy is the problem. England became a constitutional monarchy without changed hereditary monarchy. - This elected council allows the North to have its own King? If hereditary monarchy is a problem then why allow the nobles their powers and a Stark in Winterfell? You can’t have it both ways. - The show decides to hang everything that is wrong with the world on Daenerys. Despite having depicted her as a hero up until two episodes ago. - Every character acts as if putting cities to the sword is a singularly unusual act. When in reality it was common in the Middle Ages and Ancient World. - In short, the show falls back on black and white morality without any grounding in reality.
  3. It has ruined the entire series for me. Bittersweet my ass.
  4. So after all these years the Stark fan boys get what they’ve always wanted and I have to watch Jon kill Dany with Jorahs sword. Hacks, nihilists and cynics. Dany wouldn’t kill a million people if the city surrendered.
  5. Well. The people of Kings Landing really need to consider either fleeing or putting Cersei’s head on a pike. Because Dany is going to destroy Kings Landing.
  6. I think at least one of the Starks should have taken one for the team. None of them really make a major sacrifice here. Arya might have been the best suited to kill the Night King with her abilities, but I didn’t feel like it was something her arc had built towards. It was a bit cruel to kill all the Mormonts.
  7. RIP Jorah. Personally I think he should have lived to see the end of Danny’s story and return to Bear Island. I thought the Undead were overpowered. Why do rotting corpses have super strength and move fast? How does the Night King suddenly have a million zombies rather than the 100,000 we saw. Then possessing the ability to conjure snowstorms. It was too much. They even downplay how susceptible Wights should be to fire and obsidian. I get this adds drama and threat. But it felt like an unfair fight. The charm of the books is that the heroes make mistakes not that the writer arbitrarily has a High Fantasy faction from Age of Sigmar (Stormcasts would struggle to beat that) wipe the floor with a normal army playing by the rules. At least in World War Z they had guns.... It is a dramatic episode and has some great moments. Thoroughly gripping to watch.
  8. Dammit Arthas, do you not understand the meaning of the word restraint!
  9. So clearly Cersei has more soldiers than Daenerys, the North, Vale and the support of all the Lords of Westeros? How else can you explain her still being in a position to dictate terms to Dany and for her participation to be so crucial. I mean, why does it matter if the crazy woman in the capital doesn't support them?
  10. Okay, seriously, to all the reviewers still saying that "oh Dany made the right call on exiling Jorah". “Emotionally for me it was so intricate,” Clarke says. “Jorah’s been with me since day one, season one. The scene itself is unpleasant because I — Emilia — know that what Dany is doing is wrong, And it was the first time I’ve ever felt that.” http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/01/emilia-clarke-dany-ser-jorah/ Its a mistake, its all part of her downwards spiral into ADWD territory, which, of course, she will bounce back from. But its good to have your heroes actually put on the back foot and make mistakes. A lot of reviews I've seen act like Dany can do no wrong and every decision she takes is meant to be the right choice as she is a great ruler. No, that is not what HBO are doing. I honestly think that it is going to take caging the dragons for them to really start criticizing her and get what HBO has been trying to hammer into people the whole season.
  11. Yep, they managed to make Dany look like an ungrateful bitch whos making the wrong decision. For me they really needed to hammer home how betrayed and hurt she was over the fact that her bear did this to her. Plus, Jorah is a lot more contrite than he is in the books and doesn't argue with Daenerys "us sewer rats saved your city" where hes indignant with her. As it is, Dany, especially at the end of the scene, comes across as way too hateful how shes staring him down. In the books, she can't bring herself to look at him as hes dragged out and has to excuse herself because shes that upset about it. Indeed, when she first hears about his spying (which we don't see in the show admittedly) shes reduced to tears. Plus, the part where Dany says "don't you ever dare presume to touch me or call me by name". That is true to the books and I am sort of glad it was put in. But it makes no sense in the context of the show as its specifically referring to the chapter where he kissed her and called her Daenerys. Jorah in the show has never once, that I can think of called her by name or presumed to touch her. So this just comes across as a venomous retort whereas in the books its making reference to his prior bad conduct. A far better line, especially in light of last weeks argument, would have been to retain when she says "you told me to trust nobody else but you", yet the show conspicuously removed those lines. Theres also not the same of sense of shock when she repeatedly asks him if he told them about Drogos child. In the books this is something which it takes a few chapters for her to realize this and its "something unspeakable occured to her". Indeed, when she initially finds out about the spying she refuses to believe it. But in this scene, there is no sense of shock or disbelief, which makes it seem like Dany is far too quick to pass judgement and doesn't take it any where near as badly. This was not a moment for the imperious Queen routine and it really harmed Danys portrayal. Its particularly worrying because the "inside the episode" videos lay such stress on how betrayed and hurt Dany is but they've specifically removed those aspects from the books in their adaptation and focused exclusively on the arrogant stern Queenly figure passing judgement. Plus, in the background, this is obviously a forgery by Tywin Lannister due to his lines last week in the council and because in the show we saw Jorah get given the real pardon in season 1. So it actually is a forgery even if it is true. The show even hammers the point home by having Jorah point out that creating discord is in the interests of Tywin. Its like big flashing lights shouting "Danys making a stupid mistake" and this really colors her actions in a negative in what should be a very personal matter. In this context its obvious that Dany should just keep Jorah on and simply end how close they are too eachother due to their broken trust. Exiling him is not in her interests and whilst that might be also true in the books GRRM is much more subtle and point isn't really made until ADWD after the decision that Jorah was kind of useful to have around.
  12. I thought the Dany scenes were a mixed bag. It was good to see her relationship with Daario and this cause tension between her and Jorah. This is what happens in the books. Also I totally called it on Jorah being a member of the Golden Company. :cool4: The problem I had is that they start arguing by about his "disapproval" and rather than calling out the heart of the issue (Jorah is jealous and loves her) like she does in the book, it sort of drifts into a morality lesson about the slavers. So we end up having a totally different conversation. It felt very odd and jarring, almost as if they wrote this as two separate scenes and then decided to mash them together. You could say that Dany and the audience are fully aware why Jorah does not approve of Daario; but in the books Dany is much more direct and blunt with Jorah over this issue. Jorah comes across more as a disapproving father figure than being jealous of Danys lover. Really Dany shouldn't entertain such a facade and would confront him with the real reason for his objections. Also, it does really feel rather late in the day to be having Jorah act jealous around Daario. Especially since he shouldn't even be in Meereen at this point. Plus and I was reserving judgement from a previous scene but the show has made it much clearer now. In the books, Dany makes the decision to act defensively, to turn away from war and DOES NOT attempt to nip the Yunkish problem in the bud. She COULD have done this. Many, many reviewers and readers of ADWD would say that she was weak and made many mistakes in not confronting the slavers directly early on. This is a huge deviation from the books and frankly is an attempt to shift blame. D&D is aware that Danys ADWD arc took flack for her being weak and vaciliating with her inaction. So they are putting this down to Jorahs bad advice which makes her follow the path of weakness; when in the novels Jorah tells her to get out of dodge...twice...once as a ghost. He does not tell her to be gentle with the slavers. It also creates a huge problem going forward. When Jorah gets exiled, why on earth would Dany continue to follow his prior advice and stay in Meereen to rule as a Queen peacefully? Surely she would adopt a warlike path of violence as is her clear and obvious preference on the show without Jorah telling her otherwise. Unless they continue to alter Danys ADWD arc the show could end up with really muddying the waters about Danys behavior and actions.
  13. Yeah I am sorry but I find it very, very hard to believe that the Others can't be evil having seen that scene. You could not have conveyed them as more menacing and evil. The Nights King was almost vampiric.
  14. I almost wouldn't mind if they had at least done the scene where he kissed Dany. I would have chalked a lot of the rest down to lack of time which has affected the rest of the characters. But not a thirty second scene. Why bother having him talk to Barristan to re-establish that he loves Daenerys rather than do the book scene where he actually tries (and most importantly fails) to do something about it. There is no logic to that decision at all. That and his exile are the two most important Jorah scenes. By far. To cut one of them out for no other reason than laziness or dislike of the character is beyond me. Yes, dragging Tyrion to Meereen is important in terms of the plot but frankly anyone could have done that for any reason. Those are the two most important scenes. Like the hound asking to take Sansa away and him dying by the road with Arya. Every time Dany thinks about Jorah in ADWD or Jorahs actual actions throughout ADWD, are defined by these two scenes and will continue to be so into Winds of Winter. No, they won't build it up. Theres way too much going on in terms of the dragons, Danys relationship with Daario and the downward spiral of Danys fortunes. This is going to be a random reveal thats handled over one episode.
  15. An inferior version to the books in every way. You don't just have that scene in isolation. Its the culmination of every Dany/Jorah scene in the series. Most of which happens in ASOS. Most of which D&D cut and replaced with..nothing. Hes been basically mindlessly following Dany for 2 seasons as a glorified extra. You don't just leap into a big scene like that without ANY set up or build up.
  16. Why? You said it yourself the "character" of Jorah in the show is a joke. Joke characters don't get sympathy. I imagine they'll be making more memes and funny videos about it.
  17. A joke character nobody gives a shit about. How is learning he was a spy going to leave Dany in tears as it does in the novels? He has had every single last scene from ASOS involving him cut. He says "Rhaegar fought"... and thats it. Theres no scene where he kisses her. There isn't the tension and hostility between him and Dany. Like when she slaps him in the face in the docks of Astapor. There isn't him taking Dany to one side and telling her not to trust the other men around her. Theres no him being a hypocrite who looks bad. There aren't tender moments between him and her or when shes clearly cares for him. Like when he (not Daario BTW) returns from the Battle of Yunkai and she praises him or when she says that he has been like a brother to her but his jealousy will not do. That is much more than some joke character that nobody gives a shit about. You really think people are going to give a shit about "ser friendzone" getting exiled or understand if Dany gives a shit? Now its one thing if you, Ellio and co on this site enjoy heaping praise on these changes that give Grey Worm to do. Well, I don't agree. Obviously you, like D&D, detested the book scenes between Dany and Jorah so you're perfectly glad they were cut. Fine, thats your opinion. Go roll with it.
  18. Wow. So they gave Jorahs bit in the sewers to Grey Worm. Why is he still in Meereen? How does this make the story better? I doubt most casual viewers even remember who Jorah is or that hes meant to be important to Daenerys, and, no, having her remind the audience is beyond weak and shallow. Delaying his exile does nothing good. If he was actually an impotant character in the TV series then I could maybe understand pushing his exile back as a main event because how her ASOS arc ends. But he has nothing to do, or any personal interaction with Dany for 2 seasons and you cut all his book material out then its not the case.
  19. I frankly don't get HBO or D&D logic. They must know that book readers despise Daario and Danys relationship with him is horribly maligned. To make that the focus of two/three seasons of her story is pretty silly since hes only the focus of attention for one book. Even stranger since, apparently one of the Ds is meant to be a Jorah fan. If GRRM had not wrote all the stuff in ASOS with Jorah they would never have considered casting Iain Glen or mentioning that he loves Dany. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say that Iain Glen was cast with the scene where Jorah kisses Dany in mind. Yet their actions have bordered on malicious in terms of adapting the characters story from ASOS. IMO you're better off killing a character off if you're not interested in adapting their story. It would be so stupid and wrong if we end up having Jorah get more to say and do when hes with Tyrion next season than in this one. Daario will be around for many seasons. Next one will focus exclusively on the Hidzhar Quentyn conflicts of the heart with Dany. They have plenty of time to build his character and relationship with Dany; even if the Battle of Meereen comes in season 5. But seasons 3 and 4 were devoted so heavily towards introducing and selling Daario to us. Jorah the random extra being exiled will fall flat. Hell it would be cringe worthy if Jorahs absence is more noted in season 5 than he was when he was with her.
  20. To give the actress something to do. Same with how Dany needlessly has all the supporting characters ask to champion for her. Even though its painfully obvious that Barristan is THE logical choice. He will not lose to this Ghiscari. In the books Dany does not realize she has the greatest living Kingsguard with her. Fighting as her champion is what a Queensguard would do. Its his job. All barristan can do is fight really good. He'll be gone from Danys side for 10 seconds. Also acting like Daario considers himself not important in Danys party was just to play the "low born" card and earn sympathy it pathetic and makes no sense. Jorah, in the show, is not a great general. The show made it very clear that it was Daario who planned the Battle of Yunkai unlike in the books. Hes also the only thing keeping the 2000 strong (thats 1/5th of Danys army BTW) loyal to her as he is their leader and brought them over to her side in the first place. Daario is much more indispensable to her if we follow the shows established logic. Why risk it at all when Barristan will kill this lesser man easily? But no. Danys arc is just about teasing her fucking Daario now so lord forbid it be Barristan. I mean its not like HBO already spent four episodes emphasizing Daario was a badass fighter so highlighting this again was 100% unnecessary. Also, goes without saying that they make him way too nice guy when he humbly says that he is not worthy and she can afford to lose him. Daario would never say that. Where is the bastard from the books who wants to talk Dany into skinning children and going red wedding on the slavers? Certainly not this nice guy. I highly suspect that they're doing what they are doing with Shae where they change the character to be really nice and idealized then randomly do a 180 when the story requires them to. Very much part of them white washing Danys character.
  21. I really hated the scene where Dany explains to the audience how much she cares about Jorah more than anyone else . Firstly, its 100% inconsistent with the changes they made in season 3. Jorah did not lead the Battle of Yunkai as he does in the books. He has not once led the army or even been implied that he was the general. Daario is the military leader who planned and executed the conquest of Yunkai. Also, she was a total bitch to Jorah last season. Being snappish with him, dismissing his advice, not taking him into her trust, showing 0 preference or interest in this characters well being and when she burns the people at Astapor even refusing to acknowledge him as if shes insulted by his presence. One of the first lines in season 3 is Dany telling him "its too nice a day to argue". There was nothing last season to suggest that these two were close friends or that Jorah was 100% in Danys trust. In fact the opposite is implied multiple times. So HBO is being massively inconsistent in its adaptation. It deliberately and consciously removed any and all scenes from Storm of Swords which might suggest Danys perception of Jorah. The book has many scenes between Dany and Jorah that make this relationship self evident and not require such a dumb explanation. The only reason they have done this is that there has been absolutely nothing for show Jorah to do. He stopped being a character in season 3, Dany and him have had nothing to do with eachother. Now that hes close to being exiled the show is forced to have Emilia Clarke bluntly explain how her character is meant to view Jorah at this stage in the story. Its absolute bullshit. Dany in the books did not need to say something as dumb and stupid as that. The problem is that Jorah has as much screen time and lines as Grey Worm and Missandei since season 2. They have focused completely on first introducing new characters and from half way through season 3 an obsessive focus on Daario. Literally, every single scene with Daenerys in every episode has focused almost exclusively on their relationship; long before it becomes relevant in the books. In season 4 episodes 1 & 3 the show demonstrates this again. Adding extra material and rewriting whole chapters purely so that Daario can be the only character that matters in Danys story. There was PLENTY of time to focus and develop Danys relationship with Daario once Jorahs exiled. Especially since it looks like she is taking Meeren in episode 4 when Jorah should have been exiled. This, complete butchery of Jorahs storyline aside, was in season 3 passable as its exclusion didn't go against the story they were trying to tell. But they are going to exile Jorah this season. To go into that event without any interaction or character moments between them beyond dumb useless info dumps like Dany having to remind us how her character feels about this random extra shes had nothing to do with since season 2 is stupid. Why delay Jorahs exile to be later in the series if you obviously don't want to tell the characters story as GRRM wrote it? Just get rid of him and be done with it. You can't just have his exile stand on its own as a random reveal. Its counter intuitive. Its not going to be climatic if Dany exiles the random extra who hasn't done or said anything for 2 seasons? Its like in Breaking Bad. Watching the "I am the one who knocks scene" in isolation without having watched the series and the building tension between the characters develop will never have as much impact.
  22. Arya had the best scenes. The money shot for this episode was when she finally got involved in the fight and shoved the longsword in his chest. Dragons looked cool. Slightly soured by Jorah the walking prop showing up. Jon facing the court and I loved that they brought back Janos Slynt. I was not expecting that. As well as the guy out of Stella. Good scene and a good part by Jon. I like that Sansa met Ser Dontos. A little forced how it occurs, but I loved the expression on her face and it felt like it gave her some agency in accepting this guys gift. Jamie was great to see, wise cracking with Brienne, Tywin and Joffery. White book references were cool as well. Reforging ice was a great way to reintroduce the series. The dead child pointing at Meereen was really dark, especially with how in your face it was being up there crucified. Bad points Azog...THE DEFILER All the tyrell stuff. Unneccesary. Oberyns introduction in the brothel. Other things I won't complain about the scene with Daario and Dany in of itself. I think Emilia Clarke actually shows quite a lot of nuance and the writing does address that what hes doing is corney but she says "you're a gambler" and she does talk shit to him but he persists. It works. But I dislike what this says about season 4 and the differences which have and are being made about the TV show. Tyrion kind of fell flat for me which is odd. He felt more like a prop to introduce Oberyn and seemed so anxious in every scene it was off putting.
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