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Ellaena

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About Ellaena

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  • Birthday 10/28/1994

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  1. Ellaena

    Valyrian families surviving after the Doom

    It makes political sense. We know there were about 40 families in the freehold who were the main players of the game (can't remember if they were all supposed to be dragonlords). On dragonback women and men are equal, and why would you send a perfectly good rider with a dragon that you've bred to marry into another family, have children and switch allegiance when you can keep them in? I don't doubt the different families made marriage alliances from time to time to gain an advantage, but by that point the incest would already be a tradition and it would also be further incentivised by whatever valyrian game of thrones they were playing.
  2. Ellaena

    [SPOILERS] Jaehaerys and Alysanne

    Jocelyn Baratheon could have played a role in that but we will never know because George deemed her not to be worth mentioning much. Nor is Aemon, but at least he gets some childhood moments and a death. It's such a shame to create a character and to never...use it. But I imagine they had to have had a part in it- house Velaryon was the richest one in all of Westeros for a while during that time due to the travels Corlys did. He was of Valyrian and Targaryen blood and Rhaenys did not have a brother. And it's also worth mentioning it seems Jocelyn's and Aemon's marriage was one for a love, not just political, which is why they might allow their daughter the same thing.
  3. Ellaena

    [SPOILERS] Jaehaerys and Alysanne

    Aemma was an obvious match...if there were no other Targaryen princesses (which there were). Some people have speculated the Vale had to be brought into the fold for whatever reason. Plus, she was 11 at the wedding and was bedded at 13 in a society which repeatedly says that young mothers tend to die, in a family which was not short of heirs or in a hard spot, dynastically speaking. Hell, Jaehaerys didn't bed Alysanne at 13- he waited 3 more years in a period when they were the only Targaryen couple and had a wilful niece as heir and a sister scarred by trauma.
  4. Ellaena

    [SPOILERS] Jaehaerys and Alysanne

    Wasn't Laena too young at the time? I mean she was quite young when she was being considered to become Queen after Aemma died. She didn't have children of her own until after Viserys was king and his first wife died. Later edit: forget this, I just didn't properly read your sentence.
  5. Ellaena

    [SPOILERS] Jaehaerys and Alysanne

    Exactly my point. There is no dynastic reason I can think of or that we know of. Her mother died in childbirth and caused a rift between the Queen and King because Alysanne thought Daella was pushed into marriage too early. The fact that Alysanne then attends the wedding of 11 year old Aemma is weird. Maybe she did voice her disapproval, but what better way of showing that than not attending the wedding? Or was she ok with it? It's not like Viserys waited until a safer age to bed her, 13 is hardly developed, and it is the exact age Alysanne was when Jaehaerys wed her but refused to bed her out of concerns for her health. The maesters seemed to have voiced their concerns only after the repeated miscarriages.
  6. Ellaena

    [SPOILERS] Jaehaerys and Alysanne

    No, I am not trying to make the point any foul play was at hand. Just pointing out the inconsistency in Jaehaerys' behaviour, both based on his previous behaviour and what the narrative has given us, since we know that Jaehaerys is not the kind to be forcing himself on his wife, or put her at risk, or Alysanne the type of woman to not make her mind known (which she has). So the only logical explanation for their bizarre behaviour is "the author wanted/needed them to behave this way", especially considering what the story has given us by that point. To give you another example of bizarre behaviour going against previously established things, let's look at Alysanne's attendance of 11 year old Aemma Arryn's wedding. If she voiced her opinion about it, the story doesn't tell us, but we know she attended the wedding, which is weird considering the rift caused by Daella's death.
  7. Ellaena

    [SPOILERS] Jaehaerys and Alysanne

    I don't think Rhaena was under the impression she should have been Queen Regnant, but I do get the feeling she later felt she has been denied some of her birthright as Queen Consort since she was the firstborn daughter of the family, and that her daughters were later glossed over in the succession. Anyway, Jaehaerys' declaration as king was the result of the current circumstances and made sense, and it wasn't purely based on the fact he was the next male in line. And in Alysanne case, I think it all came down to the fact she truly believed women and men to be equal and thought her husband was of the same opinion, not that she thought there was some precedent to follow.
  8. Ellaena

    [SPOILERS] Jaehaerys and Alysanne

    Thank you, you put this better than I could. I also agree with your subsequent point, especially where Septon Barth is concerned. Now, we could make the point that Gyldayn is a maester living in a pretty patriarchal society and due to that he tends to overlook the ladies, although he is rather very interested in the sex lives of teenage girls and writes about it extensively. But as I previously said, as far as we know now this is the only time we will get the opportunity to know details about the lives of these ladies and how they influenced the family dynamic (same with some of the men), so I felt a little bit cheated.
  9. Ellaena

    [SPOILERS] Jaehaerys and Alysanne

    How about an exit from the narrative? Where was she during the Great Council of 101? You would think she would at least be mentioned since it is her daughter's claim they are considering/passing over. Jocelyn is not just the wife of the heir apparent, she is also the King and Queen's sister and sister to Lord Baratheon. Don't get me wrong, I know we're not going to get a chapter about Jocelyn Baratheon/Targaryen, and that other male characters might not be very fleshed out, but at least they get a resolution. Meanwhile we are stuck reading about Coryanne Wylde's rumoured sexual life for pages, for which I am yet to find a purpose in the narrative.
  10. Ellaena

    [SPOILERS] Jaehaerys and Alysanne

    I see your point, but I don't think the text or the events that transpire in F&B support it fully. Now, let me be clear, I don't think Jaehaerys forced himself on Alysanne or that he would ever think to do that, but I think he can sometimes be quite insensitive to the wishes of the females in his family. I also think there are genuine inconsistencies in character behaviour sometimes. The passage you cited goes : "The queen took his passing with resignation. I am forty-two years old, she told the king. You must be content with the children I have given you. I am more suited to be a grandmother than a mother now, I fear. King Jaehaerys did not share her certainty. Our mother, Queen Alyssa, was forty-six when she gave birth to Jocelyn, he pointed out to Gran Maester Elysar. The gods may not be done with us." The fact that Jaehaerys brings up his mother's last pregnancy, you know, the one which killed her, to justify that Alysanne might still be able to produce healthy children is astounding to me. Yeah, she might be able to, but at what cost? And why is a book which has Rhaena give Rogar Baratheon an ass whopping for doing that exact thing treating Jaehaerys differently? It doesn't make much sense to me that the Jaehaerys who refused to bed Alysanne when she was 13 due to being afraid for her health and life and the Jaehaerys who saw the horrible way in which his mother died would then go on and do this later in life.
  11. Ellaena

    [SPOILERS] Jaehaerys and Alysanne

    In Alysanne's defence the circumstances of Jaehaerys' being declared the rightful king are different and explain the situation quite well. Rhaena was being held captive together with her heirs, plus she married Maegor. When Rhaena escaped she decided to support her brother and did not press her claim. Also, it seems to be Rhaena herself did not want to rule. Yeah, I get the feeling she felt robbed of her Targaryen rights as the firstborn of the family, but I don't think she considered ruling the Seven Kingdoms as Queen Regnant to be one of those.
  12. Ellaena

    [SPOILERS] Jaehaerys and Alysanne

    They had a fruitful and happy (for the most part) marriage so that is very likely, but we also have to keep in mind that when Alysanne expresses the wish to stop having children after the latest pregnancies have affected her health so much, even making the maesters fear for her life, Jaehaerys straight up ignores that and says "the gods" may have other plans for them. Zero personal responsibility taken and I can't understand how the Jaehaerys who refused to bed her when she was 13 because he feared for her life would do exactly that later in life, especially coming after their mother's death and the asswhop Rhaena gave Rogar Baratheon. It's almost as if the narrative can't decide what point it wants to make.
  13. Ellaena

    [SPOILERS] Jaehaerys and Alysanne

    First time poster! I came back to his forum specifically to discuss this as no one in my life or on social media is interested enough in the ASOIAF universe. I was excited and still am about F&B but I am disappointed with how some of the females were treated by the narrative and the inconsistencies that followed. The Alyssa Velaryon we got in F&B is very different from the one in TWOIAF and she took a turn for the worse personality wise. I also feel like GRRM uses "death by childbirth" as a way of getting rid of female characters who he can't find a purpose for anymore instead of imagining something else a lot of times. Also his insistence on having so many child-brides go both against historical accuracy and what he has established in universe, when he has made it clear people and measters are aware young mothers tend to die and husbands who bed their very young wives are considered to be perverted. Not to mention how other ladies just got straight-up overlooked. Jocelyn Baratheon, anyone? It's the only opportunity we'll ever going to have to hear about them, so it just makes me sad for the missed opportunity and the wasted potential.
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