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Lee-Sensei

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  1. Yes. He definitely could have. He just wouldn’t be allied with the Tyrells.
  2. Really could have stayed neutral personally, but the Tyrells wanted a Queen.
  3. She also saw Tywins death as her opportunity to rule, which is all she really wanted. Cersei’s love is narcissistic. She loves people as extensions of herself. Great character though, but a terrible person. Probably just below people like Gregor and Ramsay. Worse than Joffrey or Viserys IMO.
  4. As the wife of the King, Ernie could have had the power she wanted so much. I think GRRM sets up a contrast deliberately between her, Dany and Margaery Tyrell. Dany and Marg are both women, but are able to use their position to wield power through Drogo and Tommen much more effectively.
  5. Yeah. She hit him too. Robert hit her a handful of times. One of those was when she threatened to murder his daughter. You can say that he was physically abusive, but so was she. Along wit being emotionally and verbally abusive. And killing him of course. And yes. Killing your spouse qualifies as abuse. Cersei had a job to do. She was Queen and the King needs heirs. If she didn’t want to have his children, she should have left. Instead she chose to kill his kids, pass off her kids by her brother as the heirs to the Throne and plot to murder every member of his family to rob them of everything they’ve ever owned. No. Plotting the murder of your spouse and ordering the deaths of his children is absolutely violent. Nope. He probably felt remorse, because it was in his nature. Joffrey turned out the way he did, because of a mix of nurture and nature. Nurture, because Cersei encouraged his bad behaviour. Nature, because he’s twin red. That’s not to say that Robert was a perfect father to his wife’s bastard, but he was the only one that offered any sort of discipline or discouragement of his bad behaviour. Cersei says that he would say things to Joffrey. Theon was beaten at Winterfell for accidentally bumping into Old Nan. Duncan was beaten by Arlan for stealing a pie (although he claims he didn’t do it). Robert hit Joffrey for butchering a pregnant cat. Hitting children for bad behaviour is normal in Westeros. Although, jumping down the stairs and stealing pie is normal childlike behaviour. Cutting open pregnant cats isn’t. In fact, when it comes to disciplining children... we can look at his reaction to the Arya and Joffrey fight. If we’re talking about abusing children, it’s worth mentioning that Jaime says Cersei wanted Robert to maim Arya and Robert called her “mad and cruel”. We only know one time Robert hit a child and it was Joffrey for torturing animals (which is how a lot of serial killers get their start and a massive red flag). The point is that Robert isn’t just naturally a child abuser. He hit Joffrey once for doing something incredibly evil and when it comes to normal kids like Arya, he’s very lenient (whereas Cersei wanted her to have her hand cut off). Cersei murdered him for power. Robert was in the way. That’s also why she stayed. If she really wanted to escape an abusive situation, she could have left one of the many times Robert was on his hunts and away from her. Ned gave her a chance to flee while Robert was hunting. He told her to take her brother and money and go to Essos. She chose to stay, because if she escaped her husband, she wouldn’t get to be Queen.
  6. Cersei murdered him. This argument that Robert was an abuser has never made sense, because they only look at it from one side. They both were abusers. So even in this one area, Cersei was the more violent. Let’s look at how they reacted to that violence. That’s how Robert responds. He strikes out in a moment of anger and immediately feels remorse about it. This is how Cersei responded to murdering her husband. Absolutely no remorse from her. Even in their marriage, I find her significantly less sympathetic. Again, Robert was abusive. But so was Cersei. She wasn’t just a victim of him. He was a victim of her too. It might be useful to see their actual interactions. Like the chapter where Lady is killed, to see how Cersei pushes. This isn’t the behaviour of a battered woman in fear for her life.
  7. I wouldn’t mind it. I hope Edric plays a role in the last two books, because I’m not confident Stannis and Shireen are going to make it to ADOS.
  8. It will never not be interesting to me how many people seem to think Cersei and Robert are equally bad. They were in a mutually abusive relationship, but Cersei had him killed. So ultimately, she was the more violent one. There’s also the fact that Robert shows remorse for his misdeeds in ways that Cersei really doesn’t. This is especially notable since Robert isn’t a POV character. We don’t have to get in his head to see him recognize his mistakes. We get in Cersei’s head and it’s full of narcissism, thoughtless cruelty and delusions of grandeur. George beat us over the head with their differences. Robert was a lazy drunk with a conscience. Cersei is a monster. “Let me tell you a secret, Ned. More than once, I have dreamed of giving up the crown… You know what stops me? The thought of Joffrey on the throne, with Cersei standing behind him whispering in his ear. My son. How could I have made a son like that, Ned?” Cersei is the same person that called Robert weak for not committing genocide. “Robert should have scoured the isles after Balon Greyjoy rose against him, Cersei thought. He smashed their fleet, burned their towns, and broke their castles, but when he had them on their knees he let them up again. He should have made another island of their skulls. That was what her father would have done, but Robert never had the stomach that a king requires if he hopes to keep peace in the realm.” I can see Robert having a functional relationship with another woman. I can’t see Cersei having one with any man.
  9. I don't remember them saying that a Butterwell was a marrying down to a Frey. The Freys were a Tier 2 house.
  10. House Baratheon is seen as a continuation of House Durrandon. Olenna says as much when she points out that the Lannisters, Starks, Arryns and Baratheons were royal families before.
  11. I think that there are a handful, but Asha has her position in large part, because Theons two oldest sons were dead and Theon was a hostage. When Balon assembles his Captains to lay out their plan of attach, he calls Asha and Theon his sons. “Victarion,” Lord Balon said to his brother, “the main thrust shall fall to you. When my sons have struck their blows, Winterfell must respond.
  12. They were Ironborn reavers. We just completely disagree. George put Ashas statement in there, because it was the truth. Theon had the opportunity to leave with his hostages and he wouldn’t have been stopped. He knew the land as well as any Northman and he had plenty of time before Rodrik returned. He chose to stay, because he was personally attached to Winterfell. That Tyrion situation isn’t even close to the same. Theon controlled Winterfell and had the Starks hostage. It would be a while before Rodrik rallied his men and returned to actually threaten his position, which is why Asha was able to leave Deepwood Motte for Winterfell and return again with out being captured or killed.
  13. It was impossible to take 6 hostages with him back to Pyke? 5 of them being children? The Northern Lords didn’t catch him going there and Theon knew the land. It was entirely possible for him to take his hostages back. Heck, after Asha leaves he allows some of his men to flee a Winterfell and they manage to escape.
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