OldGimletEye

nvm

USA. Grew up in that place where it is hotter than hell in the summer and colder than a whale digger's ass in the winter, and spring last about a two whole days, and is that rusty speck which you might have glanced at once or twice while flying from New York to LA or something and then forgot about. Some call it Ohio. Lived in other places for several years and then moved back. Why did I move back? I think I was drunk or something.

Yep, Cogman's explanation for it is utter horseshit.

Let's not give D & D any ideas here. I'm sure they would love to have a Melisandre & Sansa scene. Of course, they probably have been already planning it.

So you don't believe in the Strategic Sansa Marriage Strike? Huh, I wonder why.

You know, you keep trying to pull this "But, here is my opinion and my opinion is...., and you have to respect my opinion, blah, blah, blah." But you know, I really don't have to respect your opinion, nor does anybody else. And there is no reason to presume that all opinions are equal or are as well reasoned. Among other things, one of the biggest issues I have with the whole setup, leading to Sansa's rape, was her marriage to the Boltons as a way to "avenge her family". That was just dumb. Why would anybody marry into the family that was responsible for the extermination of their own family, particularly one that was known to have violated the Guest Right, one of the most sacred laws in Westeros. The answer is they wouldn't. The whole setup to get Sansa to marry Ramsay was extremely stupid, contrived, and dumb. And don't get me started on the apparent fact that Westeros, evidently, had to be shrunk into the size of Rhode Island in order to make the marriage happen.

I don't give a flying fuck what you agree with or what you don't. There is no reason to believe that your opinions should hold equal weight with anybody else's. Particularly when compared to people that have explained in detail what's wrong with the scene and the setup for it.While everyone is entitled to an opinion, nobody is entitled to have their opinion be considered meritorious. And yours are largely not. Many smart posters here have given very detailed and strong reasons for their dislike of the scene. The upshot here is that not all opinions are equal. Some are better than others because they are better reasoned. Your opinions largely suck.

Exactly. The scene, taken by itself, while extremely sad, is not what is maddening. What makes the scene extremely irritating is the degradation of characters and the contrived plot lines to make it happen. D & D took a mallet and jammed in it in there - basic logic, realism, themes, and the story be damned. Anybody that thinks the problem with the scene is just the scene itself isn't getting it.

Poor little D & D. It was just impossible to adapt the Vale story line. And they just didn't have enough time. They just had to merge Sansa with Jeyne. Cry me a fucking river.

Force them to write a plotline where Tyrion gets merged with Pia, so that Gregor can punch him in the mouth with a mailed fist.

Sorry about the confusion. I just felt the need to implement a policy of Mutually Assured Goofiness. When the story begins to get goofy and the explanation for it is goofy, I just feel the need to get goofy myself. The whole plot of Sansa marrying the Boltons to "destroy them from the inside" seems like a plot from a really bad 1980s action movie. Except maybe even Rambo wouldn't marry into the Boltons. Agree. Great post.

No worries. Perhaps, the fault is mine. Rather than trying to mock the article and, more generally, the idea that Sansa went into the marriage with eyes wide open and to take back Winterfell and that it was a plausible scenario, I should have made a more direct criticism. At any rate, I find the whole idea to be extremely dumb and it annoys me to no end.

Also, it's meant to mock Cogman's explanation as well.

Yes, it's meant to mock the article, which I find to be utter horseshit. And I'm not a baby boomer and I don't do drugs. I take a big issue about how Sansa married the Boltons to take Winterfell back. I think the whole scenario is just ridiculous

If you are referring to me, I hope you understand that I wasn't serious. I was horrified by that scene. However, there is an argument out there that Sansa chose to marry the Boltons. A scenario so ridiculous it needs to be mocked relentlessly. And a point made by the article, which I found to be ridiculous.

Yes, this article totally nails it. What you "Sansa got raped" crybabies are forgetting here is that this was Sansa's choice. It was her choice to do a marriage with the Boltons. Her choice. This is a key point of the article. For you "Sansa got raped" crybabies, I'll just quote a key passage: And this is exactly how Cogman brilliantly explains the situation, "This is a hardened woman making a choice and she sees this as the way to get back her homeland." Now some of you crybabies are going to complain that the idea of Sansa getting married to the Boltons was absurd and ridiculous given the scenario the show had set up. You ask, why would she do that? It makes little sense for her to do that you say. If you crybabies would just get your head out of your wominiz studies textbooks, for like two minutes, and do some research, you would know how devastating a Sansa marriage can be to one's enemies. But you crybabies aren't going to do that are you? Nope, you'll just keep reading The Feminine Mystique, rather than picking up a copy of Jane's Defense Weekly to educate yourself. How, typical. So emotional. So, I guess I'll have to do it for you. Here is a short history that explains what a Sansa marriage can do. Hopefully, after reading it, you'll come to appreciate how the Boltons are fucked: By the 1950s, the Sansa Marriage Option was seen as so effective that the Eisenhower Administration began to make the Sansa marriage the center piece of its defense policy towards the Warsaw Pact. As the Eisenhower Administration put it, the Sansa marriage delivered more "bang for the buck" over more conventional forces. Of course, the Eisenhower Administration hoped that after arranging a Sansa marriage, within the Soviet Union, the Soviets would be so devastated that they wouldn't be able to retaliate with their own Sansa marriage within the United States or Central/Western Europe. Later, game theorist at the Rand Corporation determined that, in some cases, a Sansa marriage would be a too heavy handed approach, leading to sub-optimal outcomes. As a result of the Rand Study, the concept of flexible response began to be developed, which included, among other things, the idea of just having Sansa go on a few dates within the Soviet Union, causing some destruction, but not the extensive mass destruction resulting from a full blown Sansa marriage. The Kennedy Administration endorsed the concept of flexible response, while somewhat cynically claiming that the United States had a "Sansa marriage gap" capability because the United States wasn't producing enough lemon cakes, as compared to the Soviet Union, when in fact the United States had more lemon cakes in its arsenal. Lemon cakes are known to keep Sansa happy and are key to persuading her to agree to marriages with hostile enemies. Later, the Kennedy Administration would confront the Cuban Sansa Marriage Crises as Sansa had been persuaded by Fidel Castro that Cuba had way better lemons than Florida did. Fearing that Castro and his Warsaw Pact allies might be able to arrange a marriage for Sansa in Florida, wrecking utter havoc there, the United States began a naval blockade of Cuba. Fortunately, however, the tensions around the Cuban Sansa Marriage Crises subsided as Sansa decided that Cuba didn't have better lemons after all and because the United States agreed to not let Sansa know that Turkey had great lemons too, relieving Soviet fears of any possible Sansa marriages in southern Russia. Because, the Sansa marriage is such a potent weapon, its use has always been a contentious political issue. During the 1964 campaign, Barry Goldwater, in an attempt to make Lyndon Johnson look "soft on Communism", suggested that the United States should arrange a marriage between Sansa Stark and the communist forces in Vietnam. The Johnson Administration, wanting to limit the conflict in Vietnam,however, pushed backed by releasing the infamous "Daisy Commercial". The "Daisy Commercial" showed a little girl, "Daisy", in the foreground playing in a field, while in the background Sansa Stark ominously said her wedding vows underneath a Weirwood tree. The public uproar over the "Daisy Commercial" caused Barry Goldwater to speak no more about any Sansa marriages with communist forces in Vietnam. Since Vietnam, fears of inadvertent Sansa marriages weighed heavily on the public mind, given the utter destruction that a Sansa marriage can bring. Films such "The Day After" began to be made. The "Day After" explored life in an American small town, devastated by a Sansa marriage, after the United States and its Nato allies exchanged Sansa marriages with the Soviet Union and its Warsaw Pact allies. The film, "War Games" depicted a large and powerful computer almost starting a devastating war when the computer seemingly, on its own with no human input, began to arrange a Sansa marriage within the Soviet Union. Fortunately, the computer was stopped from completing the Sansa marriage within the Soviet Union, which would have caused mass destruction there, and would have likely caused the Soviet Union to retaliate by arranging its own Sansa marriage within the United States, causing mass carnage there as well. With public awareness growing about the dangers of Sansa marriages, political leaders were forced to act. Eventually, United States President Reagan and Soviet Union Premier Gorbachev were able to agree to a treaty, which called for both nation states to reduce their lemon cake arsenals. With fewer lemon cakes, it was thought that persuading Sansa to do a marriage would be much more difficult, lessening the likelihood of a devastating conflict. Although the ending of the Cold War has lessened fears about potential exchanges of Sansa marriages between hostile nations or actors, fears remain. A key problem is the proliferation of lemon cakes, which makes it possible that rogue nations or actors maybe able to arrange Sansa marriages, with devastating effect. Currently many nations are working to together to control the proliferation of lemon cakes and aluminum pans, which evidently are used in the making of lemon cakes, a key precursor in setting off Sansa marriages. The only potential problem with a Sansa marriage to the Boltons is that the Boltons or their loyalist may survive the Sansa marriage and decide to retaliate by marrying off Sansa to LF or Robert Arryn, potentially causing mass destruction in the Vale. But, given the Bolton's weakened state, they are not likely to survive Sansa's marriage to them. Therefore, Sansa's marriage to the Boltons was a completely rational action, as the risk of it backfiring was very small.