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JNR

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  1. JNR

    Heresy 214 The Last Heretic

    The canon certainly makes that a possibility, yes. Canon reads, re Chelsted: Canon reads re Rossart: Therefore, we know Rossart was only Hand for roughly two weeks, ending during the Sack when Jaime killed him. That sure makes it sound as if Chelsted burned, Rossart appointed Hand, and Rhaella was raped by Aerys...all about a fortnight before the Sack. Well, that is just about when Aerys would have learned that Rhaegar was beaten at the Trident. Which was also the event that led him to name Viserys his heir, and send Viserys and Rhaella to Dragonstone. It's a chronological and common sense fit.
  2. JNR

    Heresy 214 The Last Heretic

    Yeah, like you, I'm very unsure whether the Gabaldon stuff is relevant to the "great twist." It certainly might be, but we haven't been told that. However, this is another qualification I forgot: that bit about how GRRM thought (at first, at least) that there were only "three, four" characters involved. That probably narrows things a bit. Hrm...
  3. JNR

    Heresy 214 The Last Heretic

    Ah, well, I'm not at all sure Aerys only raped her once. He certainly raped her after Chelstead burned, but I see no reason to conclude that was the beginning or end of it. Aerys was not a nice guy... and as I pointed out before, he would, right before sending her to Dragonstone, have had the motive of trying to sire another Targ heir as a hedge against his family's obliteration. (He doesn't seem to have cared for Elia or her children because they weren't full-blood Targs, hence naming Viserys his heir.)
  4. JNR

    Heresy 214 The Last Heretic

    Going to the ship ≠ sailing on the ship. We have no idea how much time passed between these two events, or why. Aerys would have had no apparent motive to send Rhaella to Dragonstone before he'd heard Rhaegar lost, since Rhaegar was expected to win. That he sent her after the Trident is very well supported in various ways -- for instance, Ned asks the KG in his dream about Viserys "fleeing" to Dragonstone. Before the Trident, Viserys was a prince who had nothing to flee. Jaime hears a rumor that Rhaella's thighs were chewed and believes it. Perhaps it was true, perhaps not; no one saw her thighs as far as I know. There also doesn't seem to be much need for a Targ informant. The events of the Sack were widespread public knowledge and there are endless ways such information could have come to Dany's ears.
  5. JNR

    Heresy 214 The Last Heretic

    Yes, he has. IMO this is because Book Dany swore to see Mago die horribly because he orchestrated the gang-rape and murder of Eroeh (whom Dany had rescued earlier). I think GRRM intends to see that Book Dany keeps her promise and I would expect it in the next book, if there is a next book. I don't think it's all that complicated, really. Aerys learns Rhaegar lost, rapes Rhaella (too much rape in these books), names Viserys his heir and ships Rhaella off to Dragonstone with Viserys. He does the last two steps as a protective measure because he knows King's Landing is about to get extremely dangerous for Targs. It may also be he was hoping to impregnate Rhaella, to create another Targ and thus a new protection against the extermination of his family. If so, it apparently worked. Dany recalls that "nine moons" passed between the flight to Dragonstone and her birth, which suggests she was conceived when Aerys raped Rhaella. However, since she doesn't literally remember this (obviously having been an unborn baby), it's only a tale she was told. As to Dany listing the moonlight flight before the Trident in her memories, I don't take that to mean she thinks it happened first. I think it just occurs to her first. (If someone asked me what I ate on Thanksgiving, I might say "pumpkin pie and turkey" and it wouldn't mean I ate the pie first, only that I thought of eating the pie first.)
  6. JNR

    Heresy 214 The Last Heretic

    If there's one thing I think we know beyond doubt about GRRM, it's that he absolutely never "just does it." Instead, he spends years and years and years not doing it... during which his reputation steadily gets worse and worse. Eventually he winds up with something like AFFC, in which he simply cuts out half the POVs, writes a book most of the fandom considers a yawn, and still doesn't come remotely close to his goal (of writing out the five-year gap). As things stand now, he can be found wistfully saying things like this: After seven years of effort, the best he has for his fans, as of the end of 2018, is one "eventually" and two iterations of "I hope." So this is why I venture to suggest a consultant.
  7. JNR

    Heresy 214 The Last Heretic

    Yes, he's definitely still alive going by GRRM's implied definition of character life, so good point there.
  8. JNR

    Heresy 214 The Last Heretic

    Looks like the reason I was unsure is that it was never made clear if this relates to the "great twist." According to Diana Gabaldon, she asked about TWOW and GRRM told her: So what's this all about? We have no way to know. Note to GRRM: another term for a "great twist" is "knot." Things like this continue to make me wish he could simply get a consultant. Businesses that get themselves into such trouble often hire a specialist to get out of it. But I'm not sure there exists a person in the world besides GRRM who knows enough about the canon and about his future plans for it to do this job.
  9. JNR

    Heresy 214 The Last Heretic

    Yes, I think he should be on it, because GRRM said Mance is alive in the books. Well, that's an interesting remark, isn't it? We don't really know that; the letter Jon got could have lied. We only know Mance was last seen alive, albeit in a very dangerous situation. So this seems to be GRRM's thinking: that a character is still considered "alive" if the character was not shown getting killed. If applied to Book Jojen, it means that Book Jojen is alive for the purposes of this discussion and belongs on that list. I also still think someone should bring Jojenpaste to market as a commercial toothpaste. Mostly white, but shot through with crimson. You probably have this in mind: Well, this is GRRM being GRRM. He's evasive, he misleads, but the truth is the floor of that room was littered with steel swords. And Syrio was dramatically faster and more skilled than Trant. And really, Syrio didn't even need to fight. All he had to do was delay Trant long enough to let Arya get away. He probably could literally have skipped around Trant in a circle for three minutes without ever even needing a blade. Then, mission accomplished, he could have sailed off to somewhere beyond Lannister power (like Braavos), and taken up a hobby (like writing bloody plays about how the Lannisters had just staged a coup).
  10. JNR

    Heresy 214 The Last Heretic

    Here it is. He begins the whole discussion by talking about Ned, in fact... though he doesn't nominate Ned as a candidate. He also doesn't list Syrio Forel, I'm sure because we don't really know Syrio's fate. But I've always thought there's a great chance Syrio is still alive. OK, here's the list of qualifications (I'm adding some new ones): • Must be something GRRM never thought of until recent years, yet set up well enough anyway that it would seem organic if GRRM rolled it out • Must involve multiple storylines in TWOW (as we know it to exist, anyway) • Must be cool enough -- "a great twist" -- that GRRM would bother going to that trouble, knowing it would delay TWOW quite a bit... even though he is already becoming the most resented writer in F/SF history because of his delays • Can't be something the show could do, or could have done as of about two years ago, because they killed a character GRRM has not killed I also have the impression (but am not sure) that GRRM feels he "painted himself into a bit of a corner over this," and even though it's not impossible as it is on the show, he still wishes he hadn't killed some character who's connected to it all.
  11. JNR

    Heresy 214 The Last Heretic

    You mean artistically? I would think so, yeah. To be fair, GRRM does often resort to what I would consider overkill. Snowfyre once did a whole thread on nothing but GRRM's he's-dead-oh-wait-he's-not-really-dead plot device, and came up with dozens of examples. (I would also say he overuses the device of characters who have identity problems and whose chapter titles reflect that.) But since I don't believe Jon's parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna, I don't think that's a problem for GRRM; I think he always knew the answer to that mystery. As to what exactly GRRM's new problem is? That might make an interesting Heresy thread. Any good candidate would have to: • Be something he never thought of until recent years, yet set up well enough anyway that it would seem organic if GRRM rolled it out • Involve multiple storylines in TWOW (as we know it to exist, anyway) • Be cool enough that GRRM would bother going to that trouble, knowing it would delay TWOW quite a bit... even though he is already becoming the most resented writer in F/SF history because of his delays
  12. JNR

    Heresy 214 The Last Heretic

    My guess is he's the real deal. I also think GRRM has already provided the means by which we're going to be convinced of that... and he'll spell out those means in the third Arianne chapter in TWOW. On this I'm not very clear, but I can make an educated guess. We know from his 1993 summary that he always intended there to be a book called A Dance with Dragons: We also know that the historical dance of dragons involved two Targs in a struggle for control of the throne (one of whom was named Aegon, even). So if GRRM was thinking Dany and Aegon would both show up in Westeros in this "second volume," and they would present Westeros with competing claims for the throne, I wouldn't be surprised. And that would explain a primary purpose of Aegon. At this point, of course, we've already read ADWD... and there was no Dothraki invasion, and no struggle between Dany and Aegon, and in fact Dany is nowhere near invading Westeros. But I don't think that reflects GRRM's changing plans. I think it reflects the way he lost control of his wordcount in writing ADWD so completely, A Dance with Dragons literally didn't have his long-planned dance with dragons.
  13. JNR

    Heresy 214 The Last Heretic

    I haven't read such an interview, so if you find the link, consider posting it. I suspect the two projects will end the same way in the broadest, most obvious sense: the Wall will fall, the Popsicles will invade, the Seven Kingdoms will realize their peril and mostly, those south of the Wall will unify to face the mortal threat they now realize exists. This after all is what GRRM predicted in his summary in 1993, and I think most fantasy fans would expect it (even fans like Benioff and Weiss). Who winds up on the Iron Throne is not one of the more interesting or important points, IMO... though I guess people who are obsessed with Targs might feel differently. If you're curious, what I had in mind is here: This is dated August 2000. So clearly GRRM was writing in the nineties in such a way that Aegon's true fate was uncertain... which in turn implies he always knew he could introduce Aegon in post-nineties books (and in fact, that may have been his plan all along). So the HOTU visions could have been, and I would guess were, influenced by that design.
  14. JNR

    Heresy 214 The Last Heretic

    We also get no reference to a gigantic warhammer slamming into his chest -- which we would expect Dany to notice, if the rubies are literally flying in the air, you know? A bit difficult for her to miss. However, I think GRRM had the current Aegon subplot in mind in the nineties, going by SSMs, which means it's quite possible he did always intend that vision to be of Aegon. We'll find out in due course. Yes, this could have happened. However, given GRRM's notorious secrecy and reticence in discussing future books, he really had no incentive to tell D&D much. His contract with HBO only entitled them to adapt published books, not to know all the ideas in his head about future books. Then we have interviews in which he said things like "I hope we're going to wind up in more or less the same place." Which made me remark: "He... hopes? Why doesn't he know?" And finally, we've been told that HBO is using "the true origin of the white walkers" as one reason we should watch the first prequel show, about the Long Night. This, of course, means that the origin of the white walkers D&D gave us on GOT was... surprise, surprise... not true. (As I've been saying for years.) Well, what other major creative decisions did D&D make, for the post-canon part of the show, which will turn out to be not true? Eventually, I think we'll learn the answer is almost all of them.
  15. JNR

    Heresy 214 The Last Heretic

    There most certainly are.
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