Mourneblade

You mean the same audience who believed Pod would be refunded by prostitutes? Lol.

Robb did something in character (something D&D don't understand, apparently). A simple line of dialogue with him asking what his father would have done would have made it clear to the audience exactly why he was marrying Jeyne.

It was also totally unbelievable that he would execute one of his allies over his honor because that ally killed of a couple of Lannisters... Oh wait..

Nobody cares as absolutely nobody watching TV would find it believable that a guy, a king would marry someone he just fucked once, the night before, in the next morning, out of honor. So, they'd have to vastly rewrite the whole thing anyway.

cause that never happens in real life...or on other TV shows.... I mean on Turn the main character certainly did not marry the intended of his brother for honor... Totally unbelievable... :shocked:

Regarding the whole Talisa situation... the Westerling saga wasn't THAT much better and a teenager guy that falls to a hot foreigner chick makes allot more sense on screen than a teenager guy marrying a random chick he just met out of 'onor 'cause said chick gave him a bandage and he happened to drunkenly fuck her. On TV to audience that are, well, people, of 21st century, it's just moronic.

I guess you totally missed the subplot that Tywin was behind the whole thing in an effort to drive a wedge between the Freys and the Rob Stark....Just another setting of the Red Wedding Stage....

WOW. I feel terrible for Stannis if that happens. I can totally see Martin doing something like that though, and it appears that's the direction the show is going as well. Kill a child that's a minor supporting character--I think that will be a first for the show.

yeah... the show has done a decent job with Selyse's character... she is an unlikable woman who is being set up to be the crazy child murderer all for her faith...the writing is on the wall both in the show and the books lol.

Additionally, Stannis is just too good at tactics, and is gaining steam..in the books he continues to gather more to his cause, and he has learned to adapt, becoming less "Iron" and more "Steel" IMHO the only thing that will stop him dead in his tracks and break him, will be the loss of Shireen, it is the only thing he actually loves in the whole world.

Not sure why there was not a straw that would have broken Selmy when Aerys's madness went over the top.

He should have joined Robert.

In fact Prince Rhaegar probably should have deposed his father, that would have been a complicated turn of events if he had enlisted Robert to do that!

Rhaegar told the KG and his friends there would be changes after the Trident...and while Aerys was a nut case Rhaegar was well respected and even admired by Selmy.

MAJOR BOOK DEVIATION: Selyse burns Shireen, but almost immediately regrets what she has done. When Stannis returns to the Wall after his victory at Winterfell and with Sansa and Reek in tow, Selyse lies to the king and says the wildings killed the princess. Stannis, mad with grief, blames Jon for not killing the wildlings and plunges a knife through his gut.

J/K

Hopefully, Sam and Gilly rescue Shireen and "For the Watch" happens exactly as it does in the books with Jon surviving of course.

I do not think that will be much of a book deviation....Shireen represents Selyse's failure at producing an heir for Stannis... she loathes Shireen, and with Mel's nudging, Selyse will burn her at the stake in the Book IMHO... It will be the downfall of Stannis, because without something like that, Stannis would conquer the seven kingdoms IMHO... I mean the only real strategist left that the Crown has is Randall Tarley...

Lady Stoneheart is going to be at the Kingsmoot. Mark my words. Also keep your eyes peeled for a sexposition scene wherein Strong Belwas poops erotically on Coldhands and his elk.

Coldhands was just a meat puppet for Bloodraven, SB is an interesting character but can be combined for budget.....

Lady Stoneheart is a consequence of breaking Guest Right, and is a pivotal plot driving charter.

There is absolutely no point in having Stoneheart if she's not played by Fairley.

How does the Rat Cook story set up Stoneheart, specifically? That foretells vengeance against House Frey; it doesn't specify who the person carrying it out will be. The writers have already indicated we'll see the downfall of House Frey.

Because Stoneheart's Resurrection is a direct result of breaking Guest Right..The Rat King story is introduced in the books and hopefully the show to show there is precedent for a supernatural curse on those who break Guest Right.

Lady Stoneheart was introduced through a Brienne chapter. Actually through the Epilogue of Merrett Frey. So Jamie isn't needed at this point. I don't think that interaction will take place until next season. I think Lady Stoneheart appears but towards the end of the season.

This would make more sense then not having Stoneheart.... They have set up her arc through the BWB and the the Rat King story....They do not necessarily need to use Michelle for the role since she does not speak.... but the character needs to be in there.

I dont believe green grace is a harpy

in my own i dont think there is a single head of harpy mainly because that theory is started mainly that she is the only person that dany didnt doubt as a harpy so it would be cool that dany is stupid in trusting her

like daenerys says i believe they are legion ..which sometimes even us dany fans dont remember her saying that or not entertaining that idea ..

Well a Harpy is a female gender, and gender is important to those people, as her male agents are "Sons" of the Harpy... It is not just that the Green Grace is female or that she is the only one Dany trusts, it also has to do with the inside information the "Sons" have... The only way to have that info is to have someone on the inner circle...all evidence at this moment points directly to the Green Grace.

Actually he was going to take it from Cersei (hardly foolish!) which is why Varys had him killed.

He actually supplanted her after her incarceration by the Sparrows, and was going to have her shipped off to Casterly Rock...and yes that is why Varys killed him... because he would have stabilized the kingdoms.

The BWB and Tullys will probably return to the show when the Freys return and something big goes down in the Riverlands - probably in season 6. GRRM put that story on back-burner for a while with very little happening. Killing a few redshirt Freys doesn't count as something happening. But when there is stuff to do there, those characters will come back. It is inconceivable that the show won't circle back to Walder Frey - the Red Wedding was one of the biggest moments of the show. Be patient.

Of course they will return... That being said they have had characters in the Riverland area and have chosen to mention little, if nothing, of the BWB, the Frey's dropping like flies, etc...in the books the Riverlands story is never on the back burner either... it is on going and continuous.

I dread even more the fate of Shireen than the fate of Sansa.

Whatever is done to Sansa I am sure she will survive until at least into the last book since her story is not yet over.

Shireen burned by Melisandre, maybe with the support of her own mother, would be, well, dead.

Yeah for a while I have believed that Shireen is going to be burned in the books and the show... It will happen while Stannis is away, and it will be what breaks him, because Stannis in the books without something like this would become ruler of the 7 kingdoms... he is an excellent tactical leader, is building support in the North, and there is really no enemy left, that can match him on the battlefield...After he wins the battle of Winterfell, The North will be lockstep with Stannis.

It's only "setup" if you know about the Stoneheart story. To people who don't, the Brotherhood were a neat part of Arya's season 3 story. That's enough purpose for any set of characters, and you'll notice there's no great wondering amongst the Unsullied as to where those guys went or what the point was.

Arya/Nymeria not getting touched on is not a consequence of cutting Stoneheart. The writers could do it without her. That they haven't shows they don't want to.

Not really... The BWB was neat until it drops entirely from the scene... it leaves people wondering what is going on in the Riverlands...and was totally unnecessary if you are not going to complete the arc... from an adaption pov is was poorly done, from a stand alone, again people who have not read the books are wondering wtf it was all about, since we have not heard anything about them since...

These decisions are made on a season per season basis, and it shows... Arya's list is now only 3 people.... ok....Arya asks the Hound last season why he has no gold... totally forgetting to say that the BWB took his gold in season 3....It is horrible continuity and indefensible unless you care nothing for details.

Brienne is not subtle, in either books or show. Her strategy for tracking Sansa down in the books was hopelessly and dangerously transparent. In season 4, Brienne bluntly asked Hotpie about Starks, and it worked out for her so she's even gotten some positive reinforcement on the show for this path. It isn't bad writing on the part of the show, it is a choice to let Brienne bask in her non-subtle glory.

A more subtle character would have avoided calling out Sansa's name. But that's not Brienne.

And yet she was subtle in KL when she had access to Sansa... Brianne saw her in the Godswood in the show and yet stayed at a distance instead of pledging her sword to her, telling her about her vow to her mother etc... This is where the TV writers have difficulty going off script and keeping a character true to their nature...

What in the flipping seven was Brienne thinking when she just strolled up to Sansa in front of LF and his guards! As if LF would just let his lottery ticket go skipping off into the sunset with Tweedledumb and Tweedlepod.

No wonder Sansa refused to go with her, talk about stooopid!

Poor writing....IMHO

I'm just glad the show will conclude before the books. All the show haters will still be hating even then, but I can't wait to laugh in face of book purists. :)

Wow the books are the reason there is a show, and there were book fans long before this show was even a thought...

Most book fans enjoy the show, however many are starting to have doubts with how D&D are "Adapting" this. It is one thing to streamline things for budget and time concerns.... it is quite another to do so, only to add their own contributions to the story that are of overall less quality that the source material and creates more of a mess with the plot lines...

D&D and their writing staff are not even remotely on the level of GRRM, they have not spent the years developing these characters, and lack the writing depth and understanding to change and merge characters, in most cases, or to go off script... They have missed opportunities as well...D&D's policy to begin with was to not show flashbacks, and miss out on the battle at the tower of joy...which gives stark contrast to the Kingsguard we currently have... and others, only to do an about face and bring in a flashback for Cersei on Maggi the frog and then leave out the little brother...

also without Stoneheart, the whole BWB story had no impact on the greater story of the show, why introduce a character that can be raised from the dead, or bring up the curse of the Rat King, if it does not foreshadow the Resurrection of Stoneheart....which also leaves out Nymeria and Arya connection...

The whole Darth Sansa thing going on.... If they have her marry Ramsey, the Lemoncakes will totally riot... LF being dumbed down and being far less calculating and much more living off of spur of the moment decisions...same with Varys... These characters are being dumbed down, and that is a total shame.

I could go on and on, but the story is becoming watered down and dumbed down more and more as D&D continue to add in their own work in place of Martin's, which has led this season to begin with a whimper and not near as compelling as any of the previous seasons... I hope that changes, as I have thoroughly enjoyed the overall adaption, but it is very concerning IMHO.

Another question, is the actor playing Kevan staying on the entire season now? Will he become Hand? If not, who will D&D place as Hand? Was it mentioned in ep1 at all?

He should stick around and become protector of the realm during Cersei's trial, until his death.

Loras going to Dragonstone and sustaining major battle wounds in critical condition was the only time I paid attention or respected him in the books... and yet D&D couldn't even give him that.

And damn Dany... show a little bit more skin yeah? You're supposed to be showing half of your breasts every episode anyways.

We do not really know if that is the case (Loras being severely wounded), or if it is a ruse to further manipulate Cersie

All in all I like the show.... but it seems to me that the more they deviate from the books, the more they seem to dumb the show down...

Littlefinger in the show is starting to look like he is flying by the seat of his pants more and more instead of being the calculating master of puppets, the same can be said about Roose Bolton and Varys...

These changes make things less open to interpretation, and do not really allow for the viewers to have differing opinions on what they watched as opposed to what is being read...I understand they only have so much screen time, but it seems like there is less need to go back and re watch episodes to re connect the dots as we do in the books.

I am not fond of them leaving out the Iron Islands, Aegon, or Lady Stoneheart... especially when they leave in tie ins, like The Rat King, or the Red Woman's Leeches. I feel by leaving out Aegon, it takes away from Varys and Illerio character, it removes the long game, in which smaller battles may be won or lost, but it is not affecting the end game.

Anyways too much tinkering so far IMHO is just watering down the story...that said I will continue to watch the show.

I think it's obvious LF is brokering a marriage between Sansa and Ramsey. The real question is whether he plans to double cross the Boltons or if this is legit. Whatever LF's plans are I'm sure Ramsey will make them go up in flames and then it will be up to Sansa and/or someone else to save the day.

The Lemon cakes will riot if she marries Ramsey

Pyp and Green. I like those two.

Theres a battle raging when Stannis arrives and its made pretty clear he just saved Castle Black from being overwhelmed in the books. In the show based on this episode and the preview for the next episode it looks like there won't be any fighting going on when Stannis arrives, just Jon and Mance about to team up and head out and all of a sudden Stannis arrives and genocides a bunch of now "good" wildlings.

There is not a battle raging when Stannis arrives. Did you even read the book?

Stannis brings the battle. However there is a cease fire between the NW and the Wildlings.