D-A-C

I really despair sometimes when I come onto these voting threads, I really, really do. How people (not just the person who I quoted) can give that episode, at the absolute best more than a 5/10, completely blows my mind, and yet it happens week in and week out. If an inconsitent, mess of an episode like that can be rated a 9 /10 or even 10/10 by some people, what the hell kind of scale are they using to judge the show? I voted it a 1/10 because it was an incoherent mess of an episode with logic jumps, terrible storytelling and characterisation that were down right pathetic. I also voted it 1/10 as this is the last episode of the show I am ever going to watch. Things had been getting bad since season 4 but this officially is the culmination of sh*t that D&D have ben serving us as they deviate more and more from the base material for know reason that I can see. You can say maybe my 1/10 was too harsh as a rating for the episode, but as its the straw that broke the camels back for me and watching t.v show I think it holds up. But how in utter f*ck people rate that as 10/10? It absolutely blows my mind.

Incredibly well said. Hmm, return to a store to tell an employee they were helpful, when it's their job to help? I think your underselling how people appreciate kindness in the real world, but anyway... For me, it's not a question of them simply 'interpreting things differently' it's removing or altering key sequences or events for no discernable reason. 1. Why so many 'near misses' between characters? 2. Why do the Hound and Arya visit the Vale, only for nothing to come of it? 3. Why do we get a 5 minute discussion of beetle crushing rather than a pre-fight conversation with Obreyn and Tyrion were he explains important info about Dorne, set's out key points about 'tywin not living forever ... aka he has already been poisoned ;) ' etc. 4. Why, even when they make changes are they inconsistent within their own T.V show GoT universe? So Shae is genuinely in love with everyone's favourite dwarf aaannnddd she tries to stab him on sight. 5. The whole Cersei rape debacle. 6. Pointless side stories like those of Pod and his super sex skills, at the expense of additional scenes/info from the books. 7. Serious overtones of misogyny that are NOT present in the books; Drogo flat out raping Dany, Stannis choking Mel, the stabbing of Rob's wife in the belly killing her baby, the whole Ros storyline, Jaime and Cersei as mentioned, Littlefinger brothel scenes ... the list goes on. I am a guy, and I'm not particularly feminist in my thinking, but there times even I start to pick up on some very weird vibes that are definately not in the books. Also, what myself and a few others are pointing out, isn't that it's all necessarily 'doom and gloom, worst show ever', rather why is it we cannot discuss the things we dislike, only to be confronted with post after post giving each and every episode 10/10 'everythings perfect', that's not rational discussion or even opinion, it's pure naivety. That, 'everythings always sunny' approach contributes as little to the conversation as the 'everything sucks' posts. So you can't complain about one and leave the other. Everything about particularly the second half of this season has been very dodgy, in terms of acting sometimes, storylines, adaptation, to say this season is 10/10 ... I will say it ... is just plain fucking stupid. Equally, it is just as stupid to say it all sucked (Pedro Pascal for one absolutely nailed everything he was given, even that slightly suspect brothel opening scene). So you guys can't have it both ways. Some of us come here for discussion .. not 'yeah I'm so happy and overexcited about every little thing!!! Yay!!!'.

That's the problem, its NOT a superb adaption most of the time in the past season or two. Seasons 1-2 are reasonably solid and consistent, but starting somewhere in season 3 the butterfly effect of their small changes started becoming bigger and bigger. People have listed all the points better than i can, but there are so many ridiculous ommisions and alterations, that calling their work a 'superb' adaptation sounds like a bad joke. You should re-read my post, I never said disagreeing with me would be classed as philosophy, so your premise is flawed. So you'd put Watchers on the Wall before Blackwater? Oh dear, oh dear, that says alot. I'll be sure and rewatch Blackwater for the 45 minutes of 'we are going to be killed and raped' talk. Of course hidden within the small amount there really was you even got character developement i.e. Cercei would have a better chance of sleeping with Stannis horse ... ergo Stannis is a stoic, slightly sexless, joyless, driven man who only cares about his goals, as opposed to say his brother Robert who loved a good tumble between the sheets. The Hound, Sansa, Joffrey, Tyrion, Cersei, Stannis and even minors like Davos, Shae, Bronn, Lancel all get character moments in Blackwater. Oh, and I'd rather have 45 minutes of 'dying and rape' talk than even a second of that excruciatingly awkward sex talk between Sam and Jon. Of course you do get so many important character moments in Watchers ... like Ygritte, Jon, Sam, those other underdeveloped one's who have just enough characterisation to recognizably die. At least they cap off the episode with the critical moment of the entire sequence, Stannis appearing and ... oh sorry i forgot, they fucked up the pacing and decided the first 15 or so minutes should be filler and they could just leave out the proper end to the entire destination point of that arc, oops. Good call.

Is Merlin based on a highly acclaimed series of books, that all the television producers/writers have to do is successfully translate into a different medium? But who instead constantly make unnecessary changes that significantly alter the tone, emotion and developement of the characters? Who add storylines and subplots that go nowhere and achieve nothing? Whose changes are basically almost entirely inferior, with a notable exception of Arya becoming Tywin's cupbearer and even that is probably just down to the actors involved skills.

Your so deep and philosophical. You really made me think by challenging my 'flawed premise', undercutting my entire argument in two words. I also love how you ambiguously commited to not having an opinion of your own, because of course, that risks being proven wrong, and we wouldn't want that now would we? You wouldn't be able to sound deep and thoughtful if there is a chance you could be proven otherwise. Just a thought. Hell, while I'm giving away thoughts, how about another? Why don't you tell me your opinion of the No.1 GoT episode. I put mine out there and suggested its Blackwater, so maybe now you'll offer a proper counterpoint and suggest something different? Maybe even point out what's wrong with Blackwater aswell. Just another thought.

Seriously, reading through these rating of the episodes threads is becoming a real chore. Let's face it, statistically a great episode should be around 7-9 and an absolutely perfect one ala Blackwater should be 10. Equally even the worst episode should be around 3-4, with probably no episodes deserving a complete 1 because of the strength of the source material. However, as always, what the hell is with all the 10/10 'yay this is super perfect in everyway!' crowd? If you call that finale a 10/10 your ability to discern good television from average or subpar television is seriously open to question. You could say 'well, each to their own' and although you wouldn't be wrong, I just feel I have to say to those people who think this is perfect ... really? How is that episode perfect and without a single flaw? Not a single one? Please enlighten me because I actually want to know? What I saw instead was a T.V show that has completely forgotten the source material on which its based. Just to remphasise, all the writers have to do is take a solid existing story and translate it reasonably faithfully onto screen ... that's it. Instead they feel they have to constantly change things that don't need changing. For example: 1. How ... the .. fuck ... did the Hound and Arya just show up at the Vale and then just leave? Didn't LF hear about it? How about Sansa? How about anyone? 2. Brienne vs The Hound ... yeah that's awesome, its also good to know that, all in, the episode spent more time on that whole sequence that the Mountain vs Red Viper. So an event that never should have taken place gets preferential treatment for one of the absolute key moments in the entire series. 3. We get it, people like Tyrion, I personally never have liked him as a character (love his POV's though) but why can't he possibly ever have even the slightest shade of grey in the T.V show. Shae of course would have to straight up stab him, I mean thats completely in line with her character, and everything that has preceded with her developement since season two ... oh wait, no it wasn't. 4. The writers haven't a fucking clue about Stannis, or how to work with his storyline. 5. The writers of the T.V show consistently miss the cool little things in the books and exchange them for Podricks magic penis adventures, burbing wenches, the relationship between a eunach and a girl, stories about mentally handicapped people crushing beatles and all the other crap filler these writers invent off the tops of their heads. GRRM is a good solid writer, nobody is saying he is Shakespeare, but he is good at what he does, and is good with his characters. So why all the unecessary changing things? So many characters on the T.V show are so far from their book counterparts in terms of developement, that without prior knowledge of the books, you are literally in another world. But back to my point; differing opinions aside, how is that a 10/10 best end of the series ever? I genuinely want to know, how people can call that (at best) average episode perfect? Oh and I haven't even mentioned that whole Bran travesty ... shudder.

That is an excellent interpretation of Arya from the books, its a shame you are not helping the show's writers adapt the books to screenplay, it seems they are oblivious to that side of her arc. She literally lies so many times, assumes many identities that in a sense Arya Stark merely becomes another identity that she can assume or not at will, and eventually she goes on to train in forgetting who she is entirely so she can become anything and anyone. The fact that so many people say 'Arya laughing was the cutest' tells you how badly they have fucked up her arc, she is arguably one of the darkest characters in the book. It through her eyes we mostly get to witness the real effects of the Game of Thrones, the rapes, torture and pillaging that sweeps across the land while the noblemen and women plot and scheme like assholes safe in their cities and castles. Arya and the Hound aren't a cute odd couple, they are much darker in the books and less buddy, buddy. Its just another example of messing things up. The worst part is the unsullied non book readers have no clue things are meant to be very different for alot of their favourite characters. Its the same with Tyrion, he is alot darker around the edges in the books and still a Lannister asshole, but god forbid Peter Dinklage be asked to add a bit of darkness to everyone's favourite character. The worst part is, I bet he could pull it off and still be everyone's favourite, but they won't even try. Anyway, this episode is just a perfect example of how all the changes they are making are ruining the story/ Main storylines are treated as side shows and characters are being kept going longer or presented in to suit the supposed demands of the T.V audience and as a result they are getting really short changed from a story perspective.

Just to pick up from your point here. The directors of this show, unlike alot of works that have to be invented, written on a series by series basis, have a solid base to work off of with GRRM's books. As, someone who watched seasons 1-3 THEN read the books (at DoD now) I was amazed when dialogue in the show appeared in the books practically word for word, that just show's you how solid the work the directors are adapting is. Therefore, when they fail to adapt work that is solid we have every right to point out 'WTF are you doing?'. Now you can point to limits of the medium, so skipping battles and such is ok as long as the core emotional content and meaning of the books is kept. But, it is starting to deviate badly as each small change ripples bigger and bigger. For example the wacky adventures of those lovely mismatched buddies Arya and The Hound is well past its due to be finished and is getting crammed with all sorts of sh*t that is dragging it out, and actually destroying some of the character developement. Then you have the fact that Tyrion cannot be dark around the edges, unlike his book counterpart, and so he is always good, and kind and just ... ok, he is sometimes selfish and enjoys the odd whore, but don't we all har har har. This then has the side effect of limiting Jamie's arc as we already have one good as can be Lannister, so Jaime transforming into a sorta not so much of an asshole isn't as huge a thing. To get back to my point though. They HAVE solid source material. If they adapt it badly we should call them out on it. People such as myself who enjoy the books more, I think, are just frustrated that so many people's only contact with the work is through the T.V show ... and its short changing them of a much richer and ultimately better story.

So you, and many others who do the same thing, gave a ... by your own admission ... imperfect episode a perfect score? The Wire, Hannibal, The Americans, The Sopranos, Community, Nip/Tuck, Battlestar Galactica (till crappy season 3+) Frasier, South Park, Seasons 1-3 Family Guy, Law & Order Special Victims, True Detectives, House of Cards, The Office, IT Crowd, Father Ted ... the list goes on, and on. There is plenty of amazing T.V out there, so that when a show doesn't deserve a perfect rating we can go ahead and not give it one. You have already agreed that there were some weaker scenes. Alot of people are complaining about the 'always unhappy about everything crowd', but what about the 'best hour of television in history of television!!!!!!!!!' crowd? Constantly overrated disappointing episodes as 'best in the series', 'better than all other T.V' etc. If you think that was a perfect hour, without any faults I really wish I could see it that way. I don't mean that sarcasticly, I mean it sincerely, I wish I could have sat back at the end of that and said 'well that was fantastic', instead, my immediate reaction was 'that's it?'.

Hannibal ... the best show on T.V at the moment.