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Dofs

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  1. Dofs

    Tender side of Tywin, Roose, And Walder.

    I was just stating what I saw, nothing more. I wrote 'hit' in brackets for a reason. When one put a word in brackets, one of the meanings of such punctuation is that he means something else behind that word. In this case I meant execution which is why I mentioned Ilyn Payne, the royal executioner, and not Mandon Moore or Meryn Tran. And if you followed what I write, which, as I'll show later, you don't, you would see that I retracted my statement because I misremembered what Robert actually hit her for the first time around. I thought it was for something much much worse than that veiled threat towards a child. I've said myself there is no evidence over what they did and that I merely speculate. That said, you too speculate because we have no idea how either Walder or Roose treat their wives. I speculate they they treat them similarly how they treat others, you speculate that while they may be monsters towards others, they were good towards their wives or that young girls were fine with marrying and sleeping with old Walder. In both cases it's speculation, you too speculate with this. This is an example of you not following my posts as I specifically pointed out in one of my posts to you that for all we know, Tywin is far better husband than all three and that he would give a run for their money even some decent men.
  2. Dofs

    Tender side of Tywin, Roose, And Walder.

    I guess I'll repeat once more since you are so slow to understand. No, I did not said that Robert should have another man beat his wife. What I actually said, I explained, and you quoted and replied to said explanation. Seriously, how slow one can be? I never denied that. Oh, so what you wrote about Roose and Walder and their relationship with their wives is not speculation? Or you forgot about that already?
  3. Dofs

    Tender side of Tywin, Roose, And Walder.

    Look, I've already explained to you what I meant by bringing up Ilyn Payne. Literally. And you still completely misunderstand what I meant by that. Go back and read my previous posts again. And I've already retracted my point about the first hit, since I confused over what Robert hit Cersei the first time around. Thought it was over something else. About everything else, it's either pure speculation based on nothing, or just you repeating yourself. I don't want to either continue to argue about whose nonfactual opinion is more true or to repeat my arguments and go in circles.
  4. Dofs

    Tender side of Tywin, Roose, And Walder.

    Hmm, I've checked the quote and it seems to me I confused something. I was under impression he hit her for something else. Then yeah, I retract my previous statement about the first hit.
  5. Dofs

    Tender side of Tywin, Roose, And Walder.

    Omg, I was simply referring to the severity of what Cersei did that made Robert hit her. That she deserved execution for that.
  6. Dofs

    Tender side of Tywin, Roose, And Walder.

    I only gave him the pass on the first time, not on the second time. Because as I've already said, for the first time he should have let Ilyn Payne 'hit' her. Exactly, he has another duty and it would be extremely obvious to everyone that this is what I was implying. You know, by saying that the royal executioner should have (in brackets) 'hit' her. No, you argued as if I didn't consider that Robert is bad husband, even though I clearly indicated at the end of the post that he is. Meaning you didn't get to the end of the post before writing your reply. Same here, I explain what I base my opinion on at the end of my post and you clearly wrote this before reading it. Or no one is. I guess. Except for the only bad husband in Westeros, Robert, that is. Only in your bubble where you live. Not where I live. I did not claim it. I meant the later ones because I assumed it would be obvious for you that I wouldn't believe that Walder was old forever. But considering you even missed what I meant with Ilyn Payne, I guess I should have been more specific. I don't think we disagree here that Robert was a bad husband. So you decide to go into semantics here? Seriously? Why are you so desperately try to claim that those wives were fine with marrying Walder? No, you did exactly claim that it refers to other and I am saying that no, it doesn't. Imagine if a woman is completely fine her husband treating her children badly. And also imagine that that woman is treating by her husband really well. Is he still a shitty husband or is he just a shitty father? Well, you can believe in whatever you want really, this is not a factual argument anyway. The irony.
  7. Dofs

    Tender side of Tywin, Roose, And Walder.

    Do you read and reply by sentences? You should read the whole post before replying to it, or at least edit your previous responses after you went through the whole post. Do you know who Ilyn Payne is? Clearly obvious that this was written before you read my post till the end. As I've said, I have a hard time believing that they didn't. There are no instances shown where they beat their wives but there is nothing that shows that they don't do it. And the way these characters are, I believe they absolutely do it. Lady Dustin didn't live with them to know what happened between Roose and his wive. And if you think that if Roose had beaten her a few times, then the wife and her family should have hated Roose, then no, it's not how it works. First of all, how exactly the fact that not everyone married Walder when he was old somehow makes it any better? Do you just find any arguments for Robert to look as bad as possible or what? And flat out assuming that those women would be fine with sleeping with him just because their parents basically sold them to him? You are really scratching the barrel here. This is called being a father, not a husband. Of course women would like their husbands to be good fathers but father =/ husband. We weren't shown their relationship with their wives so neither you or me can in fact judge whether Robert was worse than them or not. But wile I simply extrapolate from their characters, you base your conclusions on the fact that just because they are shitty assholes and flat out monsters to others, we weren't shown them being bad with their wives (or being good, or being anything ,really), hence the must have been fine husbands.
  8. Dofs

    Tender side of Tywin, Roose, And Walder.

    Robert hit Cersei twice and the first time he did it, it was for something he should have let Ilyn Payne 'hit' her. The second time he was an asshole but I have a hard time believing that neither Roose or Walder never hit their wives even once. Come one, Roose is a serial rapist who goes around his lands and rapes peasant women. You think his wife would somehow be more sacred for him. And what about Walder? Think that all of his wives were giving consent to sleep with the old creepy geezer? This is not really about being a husband though. Roose was forcing women to 'cheat' with him. Yeah. Robert was an absolutely awful husband but out of the three given, he was not worse than Roose or Walder, at most on their level. He is, of course, worse than Tywin but by all accounts, as a husband, Tywin would give a run for their money to even many decent men, the likes of Robert or Walder are not even in his league.
  9. When you analyse Genna's words about Jaime and Tywin, you should only take into account the context of Genna's words. Honour or the right thing to do was not what she had in mind when comparing Jaime with his father.
  10. I actually disagree that it wasn't a bluff. When Jaime said the threat, he didn't even think about having to act on it, which is why the threat make no sense. The threat is literally Jaime saying the worst things that pop into his mind without any considerations whether he even sounds logical. And he did it because he knew Edmure's state of mind and that after seeing his little demonstration with the Freys he would believe him. The threat was designed to scare, not to be acted upon. It was absolutely a bluff. When Jaime compares himself with Tywin after saying it, he doesn't mean about possibility to do it, he just feels dirty about threatening Edmure's family which he considers to be a completely unfair low blow which is against Jaime's principles. Whether Jaime would do Rains of Castamere on someone is irrelevant to Genna's comment though. She was not talking about Tywin's cruelty when she said that Jaime is not Tywin's son.
  11. I am pretty sure that GRRM's intent is indeed to turn Jaime into a successful leader and brilliant like Tywin was. GRRM even shows that in Jaime's first chapter in Feast: And this quote is not somewhere in the middle of the chapter, that's how the chapter ends, meaning that George specifically stresses on the fact that Jaime just acted very Tywin-like and that it is important for the future. Jaime's resolution of the Siege of Riverrun is a continuation of this idea. Before the resolution, George presents the Siege as this quagmire where everyone is stuck with no end in sight, then he tells through Genna that Jaime is not Tywin and hence is not a problem solver. Then Jaime goes and solves the Riverrun with an absolute victory literally in one day. This fundamentally goes against Genna's assessment of Jaime. Also, I believe people don't give Jaime enough credit for Riverrun because almost everyone missed what actually happened there(I myself didn't until recently). What actually happened is that Jaime's manipulation of Edmure didn't start in the tent when he started to speak with him. It started literally when Jaime entered the Frey camp to get Edmure in the first place. And everything that happened there, including his bossy demeanor, his companions being the scary Ilyn Payne and Strongboar, his lesson about threats to Ryman Frey, all of it was for Edmure and Edmure only, so that later he would believe Jaime's threats that were to come while being under the impression of what Jaime did in the Frey camp. This is a spectacular example of manipulation and only further enforces the fact that at the point when Genna said that Jaime doesn't possess Tywin's talents, she was wrong.
  12. Jaime thought about doing it as a 'fuck you' to people who would condemn his and Cersei's relationship but beyond that neither of the twins actually cares about purity of the Lannister bloodline.
  13. A combination of pride, confidence and stupidity.
  14. Dofs

    Was Tywin Lannister a villain?

    Tyrion was one of the few in Storm with whom Tywin shared his plans and opinions and whos opinion regarding politics Tywin respected. Hence you are likely greatly overestimating Tywin's hatred of Tyrion and are buying Tyrion's perception of what Tywin thought of him at face value. Not everything that Tyrion perceived as a slight from his father was actually a slight, for example taking away from him the position of the Hand. As I wrote in my post earlier, Tywin doesn't care about stuff like morals. Pragmatically, Tywin saw Gregor as useful tool so he decided to keep it. What's done is done regarding Elia. Tywin flat out tells to Tyrion that he did indeed order the deaths of the children. He also tells to Tyrion that he didn't order to kill Elia and simply forgot to mention her. That's what the whole argument is about - did he forget about her or not? I tend to believe that he did because there is no reason for him to wish specifically Elia's death. Oberyn's explanation doesn't sound realistic to me. No, he couldn't have heard them. Jaime and Elia with children were in completely different buildings.
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