AryaNymeriaVisenya

That would be interesting as George also uses physical traits for the noble houses of the First Men. Why are the Baratheons/Durrandons Black Haired and Blue Eyed? Why do the Starks look wolfish with long faces and lank brown hair? Why do the Lannisters have their Golden Lion looks? These traits seem to be passed down generation after generation and where they don't appear its notable. Perhaps this genetic magic was common.

Seems like a lot of folk are still angry about how the TV show ended for House Targaryen.

People everywhere have been saying 'she was always an adventurer'. Where? Its got to the point where I think I'm missing something. I think the triumphant ending ruined the message of Arya's story. Its not triumphant. She wants home, she wants family. But she doesn't feel like she fits in with her family anymore. Gendry's legitimisation takes him away from her. She has nothing and nowhere so she's still wandering looking for home. And if you really want to get into it, the insistence that she is NEVER coming back, that its a task that people more skilled than her have attempted and disappeared, that the books heavily suggest Arya will die young because of her 'wolf blood' and you are looking at an ending that is downright grim. But the show doesn't give you that context of her journey because they want a truimphant montage.

The Jon parentage thing is on hold. It will be back next week. He needs to tell his sisters

So I take it that this means the 'Bride of Fire' trilogy relates to the Three Mounts you must ride. The Silver and the Ship with Aeron on the Prow fits that. But these are very literal compared to the blue rose in the wall of ice. We assumed the Blue rose was Jon but the other two are not as figurative. I would assume that she will need to 'mount' this wall of ice as in climb it?

I was bothered that it was so easy and clean for Dany. Drogon went for the harpies with no other damage? Wasn't she meant to be whipping him and having her hair burnt off?

It was definitely brutal, Dany was abused to tears by Drogo until it apparently turned out she just wasmt pleasing him the right way or some crap.

Interesting Targ madness was brought up again, after Barristan's stories of Aerys and Dany's very questionable actions last week that had whiffs of Aerys.

I think she is too low profile to really be the ringleader. A prostitute with no lines?

Hizdahr and Daario start the season returning from a city that overthrew the people Dany had left in charge. Their demand was only to open the fighting pits which seems too little for peace. The scene I am mentioning is Daario and Grey Worm looking or Sons of the Harpy behind a Wall that Daario magically finds because he 'knows fear'!

So we believe that this: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Second_Siege_of_Meereen Is completely cut? If he is destabilising Meereen on purpose after being paid off during his negotiations to quell rebellion why would he show his hand until victory was assured. As it is, we see Sons of the Harpy flood an arena. Daario is show Ben Plumm? A scene where Daario, the leader of the Second Sons, describes the Second Sons doing exactly what the Sons of the Harpy do before they do it. Attacking people in alley ways, blending in to the people around them, getting to know average folk in bars and brothels. And oh look, here is a prostitute helping the Sons of the Harpy to attack unsullied down an alley!

And he is also the one 'hunting' them with the most success. What makes you think Daznak is the end point if he is de-stabilising Mereen for an Astapori attack?

Jon and Dany are getting leadership parallels, they also get the 'Do it your way' speech. I'm wondering what the end point to that is, they both with end this year in failure with the people they are meant to lead turning on them. Maybe its setting them up as opposites in how they deal with these things? As we've seen Dany is going off the deep end a bit but Jons failures aren't as spectacular. Need to think about that some more.

See point 8. What slavers? Maybe its not the slavers in Mereen. I think that she like Hizdahr is just meant to be a totemic representation of her type of people. Not just prostitutes but former slaves who could be doing worse under Dany. She is to show that the problem is rife from the top right down. Notice how Daario says the Second sons interact with the people? 'My second sons on the other hand, drink, whore, fight in streets, they blend in, they overhear things in taverns and follow people from the taverns to a nice quiet alley, break a few fingers, overhear a few more things and before you know it...'

1. Dany places unwavering trust in him. As you say, he is a mercenary and not random he is Dany's lover. Who is to say he can't see monetary advantage in conspiring? He beheaded the other leaders of the Second sons remember. This guy is not the most loyal of men. 2. We know he supports the old slavery traditions like the fighting pits but it seems to be glossed over. He did well out of slavery it seems. 3. There is growing background tension between Daario and Hizdahr, seemingly to make Hizdahr look guilty but I get the impression he is a diversion. 4. Daario's tour with Grey Worm about how they don't know fear. Or was he just in on the Harpy's tactics? 5. The reveal would be the end of Dany in Mereen, she fed an innocent man to dragons while making others watch and fear for their lives. She targeted the old families with no real evidence, just suspicion. This is after killing over 100 of them without mercy or trial. If it turns out it wasn't actually them? It would be Barristan's words coming back to bite her in the ass which seems to be a theme this year. She disgraced everything he stood for this episode and Barristan will be right. 6. The insurgency isn't going to stop after this episode. Her dragon horror won't stop it. So either the Old families are suicidal or she's threatened the wrong people. 7. Hizdahr is our only face of the old families and if he is meant to represent them then they are bricking it. The reveal of the leaders of the Sons of the Harpy will be of someone we recognise. Hizdahr has been too obvious. 8. This began after he returned from negotiating with slavers who wanted slavers bay back and the only condition was the fighting pits? Deal done?

I think this was sort of the point. Barristan is gone and Missendei is a yes woman. Hizdahr spoke out against her and he seems to be on a leash now. Unless he's a great actor I don't think he is the Harpy. I think Daario may be the Harpy in the show. But the Valar Morghulis in the dragon pit makes me wonder if he could be the one to put a hit on the dragons. Dany has to learn that she can't just give in to get love from her people. Perhaps their adoration is not that important in a decision maker, its their respect. Dany is learning that the Queen fantasy she had (and the same one Sansa had in the book) is not real. She can't be unanimously loved. She is not a saviour. And Tyrion will be the punctuation mark in that plot when he turns up with his acerbic sarcasm and sees the mess.

Note how Cersei and Dany both end their time in AFFC/ADWD. Come back and tell me that they are not intertwined more significantly. Cersei is off her rocker, Dany fears going mad that is true but both are making a mess of power and end up in the dirt. Do you need people to spell out the episode for you rather than using your own critical abilities? I don't care about Dany enough to hate her, much like Missendei, I'm quite apathetic about them. I'm all for discussion, but if you are going to be rude, I will be rude to you.

Like I said, I'm not saying she is killing prostitutes and cutting cats open. But there is a definite comparison to be made between Joffrey's early failures and this scene showing Dany's early failures. I'm not comparing personalities but the success of their rulership. I could easily say Lannister and not Joffrey but its basically the same thing. They took two quick examples of the early hatred of the Lannister regime in series one and two to draw comparisons. Therefore in turn comparing what we are shown as 'good ruling', Ned Stark. The reasons why they get in to the messes they do are very different, the effect is the same. These are just quick visual callbacks. Elio said in a recent video that Dany in A Dance with Dragons was meant to parallel with Cersei but that GRRM didn't think it worked out. Comparing her to the Lannister rule in general could be a quick way for D&D to align the two. Ned is as close as you get, he is the 'good man that died for it'. Its by him we judge others. It is like the Joffrey scene, you just don't like the inference you think it makes on Dany. I do agree that there is a comparison also to be made with Robb and Karstark, he lost a lot of his men for what he did but it was only the Karstarks that he actually lost (and even then in the books Alys is still loyal because of Ned's morality and justice). His forces were more than House Karstark. Robb's big mistake was breaking his word People do know she does worse in the books than this right, like those girls getting tortured at her command? I really couldn't abide it if we had to spend 9 weeks of people explaining how its 'not really her fault' the more she mucks up.

'Bran had no answer for that. "King Robert has a headsman," he said, uncertainly."He does," his father admitted. "As did the Targaryen kings before him. Yet our way is the older way. The blood of the First Men still flows in the veins of the Starks, and we hold to the belief that the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die."One day, Bran, you will be Robb's bannerman, holding a keep of your own for your brother and your king, and justice will fall to you. When that day comes, you must take no pleasure in the task, but neither must you look away. A ruler who hides behind paid executioners soon forgets what death is."' Ned is our bastion of goodness, he is the great guy that gets killed doing the right thing. This is the first POV. This is a basic moral compass of the text. Read that, look at the Dany scene, see how it is is the antithesis of all that Ned/The Starks represent. Yes, he mentions First Men blood but its basis is in morality and justice and that it is the RIGHT way. Ned even basically says his BFF Robert is wrong to have a headsman, but what they do is what they do and none of his concern. Its like D&D decided to just do the opposite of this, like was done in the Joffrey scene. The setting even calls back to the Joffrey scene, in that it is an 'event', pre arranged with masses of crowds. And of course the riot from the early days of his reign too smushed in there. How you interpret it with Dany is up to you, there is a clear parallel. 'Fetch me a Block' is Jon going about things the Ned way and of course, he gets the infamous nod of approval. Does Jon get punished for killing Slynt in the text, no. He gets punished for breaking the Watch's rules and being too nice to wildings. Look at the quote Honestly, if you can't see a basic comparison I don't know how to discuss this further. I get it, you like Dany but this season is about her failures. If you try to discount them, you miss the whole point. Meereen does not go well.

How can you look at that scene and come out of it thinking that it wasn't a bad plan? They began cheering for her, by the end all the entire city had become a snake pit. Remember the line about bringing out the snakes to cut of their heads, now everyone is a snake because of what she has done.

Its relevant because its the first bits of Joffrey's rule condensed in one scene. Just because Joffrey had a 'Royal Executioner' doesn't mean that the scene of him ordering Ned's head didn't parallel with episode 1. That made a statement about the difference between the Starks and the Lannisters and its continued here to show Dany erring on the Lannister side. Who wants to bet its carried on with 'Fetch me a block'? Its not about detracting from Dany, its paralleling situations. Not saying Dany's about to vivisect cats! The comparison is their failures in ruling. Seems to be a deliberate callback, the setting just clinches it.

Elaborate. What is ridiculous about it? A public execution on the steps of Baelor's sept vs A public execution in front of the Pyramid of Mereen Joffrey asking Ilyn to execute Ned paralleled 'Whoever passes the sentence must swing the sword', making a statement about Joffrey's inadequacy. Similarly Dany has Daario carry out the sentence and not herself. We are told in the first main scene of the show how important it is not to look away 'father will know', Dany pointedly cannot look suggesting she doesn't believe what she is doing is right. Dany's scene is followed by a riot, similar to the Kings Landing riots where Joffrey had to be escorted to safety after he lost the good will of the people, similarly Dany had to be hustled in to the pyramid to stop the crowds tearing her apart.

She went all Ned Stark and broke the most basic rules! She turned away and had someone else do the executing. On top of that, she made a show of it! I thought between that and the riot that followed there were definite Joffrey nods regarding failure in ruling.

Rather its giving her Children of the forest qualities. She is a greeseer but needs blood to see, what is Bran eating?

It was weird. Jaimie has the 'duty as head of the Kingsguard' card to play.