AryaNymeriaVisenya

On 1/19/2023 at 2:17 AM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

The people of the great empire had technology which they could use to give a specific eye color to each family.  The eye color may be the physical sign of which family a noble belonged to.  The family tree branched off and some way to identify where each belonged was needed.  

That would be interesting as George also uses physical traits for the noble houses of the First Men. Why are the Baratheons/Durrandons Black Haired and Blue Eyed? Why do the Starks look wolfish with long faces and lank brown hair? Why do the Lannisters have their Golden Lion looks? These traits seem to be passed down generation after generation and where they don't appear its notable. Perhaps this genetic magic was common.

On 4/17/2023 at 5:38 PM, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

The Starks don't need any salvaging. What is that absurd idea ?

Seems like a lot of folk are still angry about how the TV show ended for House Targaryen.

14 hours ago, Danelle said:

Arya was the only character i wad really never invested to but she never seemed to care about wanderlust. She always seemed to care about her pack. 

People everywhere have been saying 'she was always an adventurer'. Where? Its got to the point where I think I'm missing something. I think the triumphant ending ruined the message of Arya's story. Its not triumphant. She wants home, she wants family. But she doesn't feel like she fits in with her family anymore. Gendry's legitimisation takes him away from her. She has nothing and nowhere so she's still wandering looking for home. And if you really want to get into it, the insistence that she is NEVER coming back, that its a task that people more skilled than her have attempted and disappeared, that the books heavily suggest Arya will die young because of her 'wolf blood' and you are looking at an ending that is downright grim. But the show doesn't give you that context of her journey because they want a truimphant montage.

The Jon parentage thing is on hold. It will be back next week. He needs to tell his sisters

So I take it that this means the 'Bride of Fire' trilogy relates to the Three Mounts you must ride.

The Silver and the Ship with Aeron on the Prow fits that. But these are very literal compared to the blue rose in the wall of ice. We assumed the Blue rose was Jon but the other two are not as figurative. I would assume that she will need to 'mount' this wall of ice as in climb it?

Am I the only one who was bothered by the weak CGI in the end? Don't see any comments about this.

Shireen :*( ... RIP ... the best child actor of the show IMO... that was Cruel D&D... the first scene of whole GoT while which I just begged PLEASE NO... even Red Wedding was like "well.. kinda expected"... but this... SHIREEEEEN!!!! NOO! NOIOOOOOOO!!!!

I was bothered that it was so easy and clean for Dany. Drogon went for the harpies with no other damage? Wasn't she meant to be whipping him and having her hair burnt off?

Dany was raped in the books too, and yet she turned around and fell in love with Drogo anyway. Yes, in the books it wasn't as brutal but a 13 year old girl being sold to a man is not capable of consenting. They made it more brutal and that may be irresponsible, but don't blame the rape itself on David and Dan, that was all GRRM.

It was definitely brutal, Dany was abused to tears by Drogo until it apparently turned out she just wasmt pleasing him the right way or some crap.

Interesting Targ madness was brought up again, after Barristan's stories of Aerys and Dany's very questionable actions last week that had whiffs of Aerys.

I'm still leaning towards the (yet) unnamed prostitute that was on scene when the first Unsullied was murdered.

Harpies are by definition, female and I think that the "Sons" of the Harpy are following her. She might be one of the Graces, if D & D ever decide to pursue that avenue.

I think she is too low profile to really be the ringleader. A prostitute with no lines?

yes it is cut ..what more proof we need ..we are halfway through the season and it looks like meereen will be no show for next episode which means only four episodes left and one will cover the pit ..ser barristan is dead ..we never hear about anything from other citiesw like yunkai ,astopr,and not even in volantis ..tyrion and jorah is with dany ..dont you think by now they would have mentioned about the coming army ..and not to forget they totaly butchered the marriage proposal scene this episode..

what we see is sons coming into rena and kill the unsullied and sorround dany, missandei,tyrion,jorah and darrio..and we also see darrio cutting the Sons of the harpies down in the pit

except that scene you are mentioning is where the Secons Sons get murdered by harpies because of what they did basck in episode 2

Hizdahr and Daario start the season returning from a city that overthrew the people Dany had left in charge. Their demand was only to open the fighting pits which seems too little for peace.

The scene I am mentioning is Daario and Grey Worm looking or Sons of the Harpy behind a Wall that Daario magically finds because he 'knows fear'!

because there have been no mentions about an invasion by other cities ..

i dont know whats the point if he his going to kill dany he could have done that plenty times when they are alone and if he is not turning to kill dany when there is no one left to protect her in the pit then i dont know when he will turn ..

all you do is pick a scene which was used to show unsullied cant really be best at finding the harpies and IMO darrio's line about finding the harpy was simply him bragging about how second sons are better than unsullied

So we believe that this: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Second_Siege_of_Meereen

Is completely cut? If he is destabilising Meereen on purpose after being paid off during his negotiations to quell rebellion why would he show his hand until victory was assured. As it is, we see Sons of the Harpy flood an arena. Daario is show Ben Plumm?

A scene where Daario, the leader of the Second Sons, describes the Second Sons doing exactly what the Sons of the Harpy do before they do it. Attacking people in alley ways, blending in to the people around them, getting to know average folk in bars and brothels. And oh look, here is a prostitute helping the Sons of the Harpy to attack unsullied down an alley!

your theory can be disproved just by looking at the trailers and leaked photos during the filming of daznak pit

if he was leader of the harpy as you say then that would have been the moment he turns against dany but instead he is fighting for her killing harpies in the pit as we can see in the trailer ...

he and jorah are the one protecting dany when the Sons of harpies round them up in the arena

And he is also the one 'hunting' them with the most success. What makes you think Daznak is the end point if he is de-stabilising Mereen for an Astapori attack?

Jon and Dany are getting leadership parallels, they also get the 'Do it your way' speech. I'm wondering what the end point to that is, they both with end this year in failure with the people they are meant to lead turning on them. Maybe its setting them up as opposites in how they deal with these things? As we've seen Dany is going off the deep end a bit but Jons failures aren't as spectacular. Need to think about that some more.

The Sons of the Harpy are entirely about the interests of the slaver class. It's them. It makes no sense otherwise.

We also don't know that there is a "Harpy", either in the books or the show. There's thus far been no suggestion that there's any individual leader.

See point 8. What slavers? Maybe its not the slavers in Mereen.

He's not.

I would say that if there is indeed a Harpy it would be the prostitute that was present at both the attacks against Dany's people. She was directly responsible to White Rat's murder and she directed the Unsullied into the ambush. I'm certain that she is playing a role in the terrorist organization, that they have decided to showcase her says to me that it's an important role.

ETA: He can be in cahoots with the SoH but he's not one of the leaders.

I think that she like Hizdahr is just meant to be a totemic representation of her type of people. Not just prostitutes but former slaves who could be doing worse under Dany. She is to show that the problem is rife from the top right down.

Notice how Daario says the Second sons interact with the people? 'My second sons on the other hand, drink, whore, fight in streets, they blend in, they overhear things in taverns and follow people from the taverns to a nice quiet alley, break a few fingers, overhear a few more things and before you know it...'

Why would a random foreign mercenary be the leader of a Meereenese slaver terrorist group?

1. Dany places unwavering trust in him. As you say, he is a mercenary and not random he is Dany's lover. Who is to say he can't see monetary advantage in conspiring? He beheaded the other leaders of the Second sons remember. This guy is not the most loyal of men.

2. We know he supports the old slavery traditions like the fighting pits but it seems to be glossed over. He did well out of slavery it seems.

3. There is growing background tension between Daario and Hizdahr, seemingly to make Hizdahr look guilty but I get the impression he is a diversion.

4. Daario's tour with Grey Worm about how they don't know fear. Or was he just in on the Harpy's tactics?

5. The reveal would be the end of Dany in Mereen, she fed an innocent man to dragons while making others watch and fear for their lives. She targeted the old families with no real evidence, just suspicion. This is after killing over 100 of them without mercy or trial. If it turns out it wasn't actually them? It would be Barristan's words coming back to bite her in the ass which seems to be a theme this year. She disgraced everything he stood for this episode and Barristan will be right.

6. The insurgency isn't going to stop after this episode. Her dragon horror won't stop it. So either the Old families are suicidal or she's threatened the wrong people.

7. Hizdahr is our only face of the old families and if he is meant to represent them then they are bricking it. The reveal of the leaders of the Sons of the Harpy will be of someone we recognise. Hizdahr has been too obvious.

8. This began after he returned from negotiating with slavers who wanted slavers bay back and the only condition was the fighting pits? Deal done?

The mad queen then...

Hope D&D are planning to that then. Hope they dont make a 180 turn again and make her the "most lovable adorable queen".

The slaves hate her, the masters hate her. Hope they just do not magically change that in an instant.

Hope at the end of season 7, I can say well that made sense

I think this was sort of the point. Barristan is gone and Missendei is a yes woman. Hizdahr spoke out against her and he seems to be on a leash now. Unless he's a great actor I don't think he is the Harpy. I think Daario may be the Harpy in the show. But the Valar Morghulis in the dragon pit makes me wonder if he could be the one to put a hit on the dragons. Dany has to learn that she can't just give in to get love from her people. Perhaps their adoration is not that important in a decision maker, its their respect. Dany is learning that the Queen fantasy she had (and the same one Sansa had in the book) is not real. She can't be unanimously loved. She is not a saviour. And Tyrion will be the punctuation mark in that plot when he turns up with his acerbic sarcasm and sees the mess.

Pretty much thins.

Throughout ADWD Dany and Jon's leadership positions are being compared and contrasted. It so happens that they make many of the same mistakes. To compare the scene with Joffrey is asinine. D&D when discussing the episode talked about the difficulty of ruleship in comparison to conquering. And how Dany had to learn that she could not please everyone. Nowhere was a comparison to Joffrey intended. That's just hyperbole.

Agree completely with this.

As usual you have missed the point.

The comparison with Cersei is the absolute irony that Cersei is more like Dany's father than Dany herself. That Cersei will turn out to be the Mad Queen not Dany, that's where the comparison lies.

Please go watch the Inside the Episode bit, D&D make no such comparisons to Joffrey. That's purely on you and your absurd hatred of Dany.

Note how Cersei and Dany both end their time in AFFC/ADWD. Come back and tell me that they are not intertwined more significantly. Cersei is off her rocker, Dany fears going mad that is true but both are making a mess of power and end up in the dirt.

Do you need people to spell out the episode for you rather than using your own critical abilities?

I don't care about Dany enough to hate her, much like Missendei, I'm quite apathetic about them.

I'm all for discussion, but if you are going to be rude, I will be rude to you.

There is a gargantuan difference between not going well, and comparing her to Joffrey.

Jon struggles to rule during ADWD too, but somehow I doubt you'll jump to comparing him to Joffrey. His people tried to kill him too. So again the only difference is swinging the sword himself? That's just stupid.

Like I said, I'm not saying she is killing prostitutes and cutting cats open. But there is a definite comparison to be made between Joffrey's early failures and this scene showing Dany's early failures. I'm not comparing personalities but the success of their rulership. I could easily say Lannister and not Joffrey but its basically the same thing. They took two quick examples of the early hatred of the Lannister regime in series one and two to draw comparisons. Therefore in turn comparing what we are shown as 'good ruling', Ned Stark. The reasons why they get in to the messes they do are very different, the effect is the same. These are just quick visual callbacks. Elio said in a recent video that Dany in A Dance with Dragons was meant to parallel with Cersei but that GRRM didn't think it worked out. Comparing her to the Lannister rule in general could be a quick way for D&D to align the two.

If that is the basic moral compass of the series, we would never get the POV of the other side. This is rather narrow-minded view of how things work in ASOIAF. What Ned was saying shouldn't be taking as gospel.

It is not like Joffrey scene and comparison could not be worse. If you compared to the Robb and Karstark, that one I could understand, but you are focusing on the make up here, instead of interior side of this. You are basically missing the forest for the tree. This is not about whether Dany did it on her own or she didn't, it is about punishing disobedience which is far more important and far greater parallel with the "Fetch me a block" than it is with the travesty of justice. This wasn't Dany's failing, even though she is not the most popular person now in Meereen. Thing is that she actually did the right thing. But, she was in situation where the right thing might not be the best thing to do.

Ned is as close as you get, he is the 'good man that died for it'. Its by him we judge others.

It is like the Joffrey scene, you just don't like the inference you think it makes on Dany. I do agree that there is a comparison also to be made with Robb and Karstark, he lost a lot of his men for what he did but it was only the Karstarks that he actually lost (and even then in the books Alys is still loyal because of Ned's morality and justice). His forces were more than House Karstark. Robb's big mistake was breaking his word

People do know she does worse in the books than this right, like those girls getting tortured at her command? I really couldn't abide it if we had to spend 9 weeks of people explaining how its 'not really her fault' the more she mucks up.

This makes no sense. Of what failure of ruling you are talking about, especially comparing it to "Fetch me a block" situation? How are those two situations different? Dany made a decision because there are laws she abides to, she wants all of them to abide to, basically just like Jon. The fact he does his execution and the fact she doesn't has little impact when it comes to the core of what they are doing - punishing the disobedience.

Ned is our bastion of goodness, he is the great guy that gets killed doing the right thing. This is the first POV. This is a basic moral compass of the text. Read that, look at the Dany scene, see how it is is the antithesis of all that Ned/The Starks represent. Yes, he mentions First Men blood but its basis is in morality and justice and that it is the RIGHT way. Ned even basically says his BFF Robert is wrong to have a headsman, but what they do is what they do and none of his concern.

Its like D&D decided to just do the opposite of this, like was done in the Joffrey scene. The setting even calls back to the Joffrey scene, in that it is an 'event', pre arranged with masses of crowds. And of course the riot from the early days of his reign too smushed in there. How you interpret it with Dany is up to you, there is a clear parallel. 'Fetch me a Block' is Jon going about things the Ned way and of course, he gets the infamous nod of approval. Does Jon get punished for killing Slynt in the text, no. He gets punished for breaking the Watch's rules and being too nice to wildings.

What else is new, this is Dany afterall. She is held to impossible standards like no other characters.

A scene where she does the right thing by punishing one of her own people for murder, and defying her orders, and she still gets shit.

Robb Stark did the exact same thing, and I saw no "Joffrey callback" nonsense. I guess swinging the sword yourself makes all the difference. :rolleyes:

Look at the quote

Honestly, if you can't see a basic comparison I don't know how to discuss this further. I get it, you like Dany but this season is about her failures. If you try to discount them, you miss the whole point. Meereen does not go well.

How can you look at that scene and come out of it thinking that it wasn't a bad plan? They began cheering for her, by the end all the entire city had become a snake pit. Remember the line about bringing out the snakes to cut of their heads, now everyone is a snake because of what she has done.

Nobody else other than the Starks do their own executions. To criticize Dany for it is ridiculous. And Bran didn't know the man being executed. Dany did. Of course that would make it hard to watch. The riot scene wasn't even in the same episode as Ned's execution, not sure how it's relevant. Something looked similar to a scene with Joffrey, so what? Your mind jumps to Dany is as bad as Joffrey? Ok.

Even the biggest Dany detractors should be able to be realize Dany is no Joffrey. As usual your hatred of the character is making you irrational.

Its relevant because its the first bits of Joffrey's rule condensed in one scene. Just because Joffrey had a 'Royal Executioner' doesn't mean that the scene of him ordering Ned's head didn't parallel with episode 1. That made a statement about the difference between the Starks and the Lannisters and its continued here to show Dany erring on the Lannister side. Who wants to bet its carried on with 'Fetch me a block'?

Its not about detracting from Dany, its paralleling situations. Not saying Dany's about to vivisect cats! The comparison is their failures in ruling. Seems to be a deliberate callback, the setting just clinches it.

:rolleyes:

Pretty ridiculous conclusion to come to from that scene.

Elaborate. What is ridiculous about it?

A public execution on the steps of Baelor's sept vs A public execution in front of the Pyramid of Mereen

Joffrey asking Ilyn to execute Ned paralleled 'Whoever passes the sentence must swing the sword', making a statement about Joffrey's inadequacy. Similarly Dany has Daario carry out the sentence and not herself. We are told in the first main scene of the show how important it is not to look away 'father will know', Dany pointedly cannot look suggesting she doesn't believe what she is doing is right.

Dany's scene is followed by a riot, similar to the Kings Landing riots where Joffrey had to be escorted to safety after he lost the good will of the people, similarly Dany had to be hustled in to the pyramid to stop the crowds tearing her apart.

Dany went all Stannis on the former slave who murdered the Son of the Harpy.

Dannis???

She went all Ned Stark and broke the most basic rules! She turned away and had someone else do the executing. On top of that, she made a show of it! I thought between that and the riot that followed there were definite Joffrey nods regarding failure in ruling.

Intresting Nod to the readers in Little Cerse' scene, "they said that you were terrifying wth cats teeth and 3 eyes." Long speculation on a certain black cat in KL and Bloodraven. While obvious it is nice to see on the show. It's minor, but still cool, and that Little Cersei, what a scamp.

Rather its giving her Children of the forest qualities. She is a greeseer but needs blood to see, what is Bran eating?

I think it shows they careless. In book, there is many people around the King helping him. Here, it's only Joffrey's parents and they both pushed people aside to get him. If people kept having doubts, well, they have none now.

Also, Jaime calls him "Joffrey". Not "my King" or "Your Highness". "Joffrey". I mean, come one. He might claim he doesn't care but it's his son nevertheless. Jaime says what he says in books because he wasn't there to watch him die but now he's starting to be closer to the kids he's having feelings.

It was weird. Jaimie has the 'duty as head of the Kingsguard' card to play.