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Hodor the Articulate

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  1. Hodor the Articulate

    Why did George give daenerys everything

    Bolded part is the point. She wouldn't have done any of the things she did had she had only dragons but no wit. She wouldn't even have dragons to begin with. The dragons are nothing if the person who possesses them don't know how to use them. I think anybody can see from your previous posts, as collected by the above poster, that you've been very dismissive of Dany's personal qualities this whole time, refusing to credit Dany for Yunkaii or even anything she'd done before she even had dragons. Even now, you can't bring yourself to say that it's Dany's wisdom and creativity in her use of the dragons that allowed her to achieve her goals.
  2. Hodor the Articulate

    Why did George give daenerys everything

    Dany wouldn't have hatched dragons if it weren't for her bravery and trust in her intuition, so by your logic, everything she's achieved with dragons should be attributed to her own qualities. Heck, why don't we go even further back? Dany wouldn't be alive without Willem Darry - let's credit him for freeing slaves and bring back dragons. You're still avoiding my question. Victarian didn't conquer SB. He's irrelevant. Maybe you're misunderstanding me, so let me be even more specific. Say Dany were the opposite of how she usually is - she'd be foolish, cowardly, helpless, mean, and have no thought of her own. How would opposite!Dany handle Drogo? How would she free the Unsullied? How would she defeat Yunkai and free it's slaves? Would Jorah and Barristan still be by her side? I assume this is referring to me, which is bullshit and you know it. I've said at least twice that I don't discount her dragons. What I've been arguing against is you refusing to acknowledge that it's how Dany's used her dragons that has gotten her to where she is.
  3. Hodor the Articulate

    Why did George give daenerys everything

    Yeah but George wanted three dragons hatched I do count it as a bit lazy writing-wise for Dany to just get gifted dragon eggs, so I can't entirely justify it. That said, I still don't think it's not an ooc move for Illyrio. Sometimes I think GRRM's original plan of having Dany just randomly stumbling across the eggs would have worked better, because you could just chalk it up to magic! or destiny! As for Aegon, I don't think dragon eggs would have done anything for him. Clearly, it's not something people only associate Targs with having. And Illyrio would have covered any expenses directly. No, I agree with those. It's some of the love/lust examples I don't think fit. As an aside, I think you could stick Daario into some of your super- categories. He's the personification of what your talking about. Everything he does is ott and ridiculous. Well, you can enjoy something while still being critical. Nothing is perfect. I get your point that authorial intent is not always clear. But I said what did because, based on what you said, you're creating interpretations because you find the explicit or more obvious reasons behind the characters actions unrealistic. It seems like authorial intent is eschewed for a more consistent or realistic narrative. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with this and everyone does it, but if you're going to argue about it, at least make sure there's good supporting evidence and that it doesn't contradict the text.
  4. Hodor the Articulate

    If Robb had declared for Stannis, would he have dismissed Melisandre?

    Well, he wouldn't have been happy with her idea to burn the weirwood trees. So maybe not dismissal, but the Northmen wouldn't like or trust her, and the alliance would fracture at some point.
  5. Hodor the Articulate

    Why did George give daenerys everything

    I guess I missed the scenes where Drogon lead everyone across the RW and planned the attack on Yunkai... And evidently, Dany "mounting" Drogo and acclimatising to Dothraki customs were meaningless page fillers because Drogo was going to respect his wife eventually anyway. ETA: You didn't answer my question. Would Dany have gotten to where she is with dragons but no intelligence and bravery?
  6. Hodor the Articulate

    Why did nobody try to curb Joffrey?

    I guess that is what I'm saying. That cat thing is pretty gruesome.
  7. Hodor the Articulate

    Primetime Emmy Awards 2018

    Those wins for Rhys and The Americans were waaaay overdue. It's a crime that Keri Russell never got a single Emmy for the show.
  8. Hodor the Articulate

    Why did nobody try to curb Joffrey?

    Would it have worked? I get the sense that Joffrey would have been a cruel little shit regardless of his upbringing - he might have just been better at hiding had he been disciplined. In Robert's case it does, because it's an indication of his no-responsibilities lifestyle.
  9. Hodor the Articulate

    Why did George give daenerys everything

    Lead her people across the Red Waste, made Drogo respect her, capturing Yunkaii. What would she achieve if she had dragons but no intelligence or bravery?
  10. Hodor the Articulate

    Would you figure out where is Sansa if Sansa POV chapters aren't given?

    No, I probably would have guessed she ended up in Essos somehow. Was there any foreshawdowing that she'd end up in the Vale?
  11. Hodor the Articulate

    Why did George give daenerys everything

    I dunno... does that count? I mean, Lyanna/Rhaegar/Robert invoked Helen of Troy because it was, on the surface, about two powerful dudes going to war for a woman. Neither Robert or Jaime are really fighting for Cersei. It's not even a love triangle, really. ETA: Oh wait, are you thinking of the "war for Cersei's cunt" line? lol
  12. Hodor the Articulate

    Why did George give daenerys everything

    I never claimed her dragons had nothing to do with her achievements. My objection was to your continued insistence that it was all due to her dragons.
  13. Hodor the Articulate

    Why did George give daenerys everything

    That's just my point. You're rationalising what you believe to be poor storytelling instead of criticising the writing. I understand doing this while reading, because it would otherwise ruin your enjoyment of the story, but you have no business trying to present your headcanons as absolute truths to other readers. Isn't it though? What's to say that's an unreasonably expensive gift for a rich man to give to a Queen? She and Viserys were his plan B's after all, and he even got immediate returns on this investment in the form of horses and slaves. Also, he can't give Aegon a dragon egg because they're trying to keep his Targ identity a secret. It would also look mighty suspicious for a sellsword's son to have such an expensive object. I'm not sure what you're implying - that he's faking being gay? That makes zero sense. "While Ser Jorah had scarcely been able to keep his eyes from her bare breast when he'd helped her into the palanquin, Xaro hardly deigned to notice it, even in these close confines. And she had seen the beautiful boys who surrounded the merchant prince, flitting through his palace halls in wisps of silk. " Xaro being gay is incredibly unsubtle, as are his motivations. There would be no point of including the Qartheen marriage custom into the story if that wasn't Xaro's plan. But you've failed to connect his sexual desire to his actions. Does he offer even one Unsullied to her after his lewd comment? No. And he only offers 2000 for her ships and everything on them after much haggling. It's not until she offered a dragon that the Good Masters (yes, plural, because she had to convince more than just Kraznys) agreed to sell all the Unsullied to her. And the gun seller analogy - that wasn't what I asked, but your response proves my point just the same. Gun sellers continue to sell guns despite of the risk of getting shot, so why is it so hard to believe Kraznys would sell his slaves? I considered that Drogo might have seen Dany without her seeing him, but that made little sense to me. Drogo would have no reason to hide himself, nor to travel alone. Had a Khal entered Pentos, Dany would have heard about it. I think any royal would carry prestige but Dany was the last female Targ and the last entitled female Valyrian. To anyone, marrying her would be like gaining possession of a priceless artifact. To the Dothraki, it would be a symbol of their domination over a people that they historically feared. Not every other action. He ordered Jorah to hurt Dany and kill the Dothraki when they whipped him. That would have lost him the only support he had for sure. And then he tried to cut Dany, and that did lose him the Dothraki... and everything else. I'm not saying Daario didn't kill his partners for Dany, just that it seems like something he would do, to me. Daario is really extra. Well, it's fantasy fiction. It's bound to be dramatic. I just don't agree that this applies to all the examples you've given. Also, I think you're downplaying lust for power as a motive, and confusing it for sexual lust or love.
  14. Hodor the Articulate

    Why did George give daenerys everything

    You're commenting on the plausibility of all these men offering Dany great gifts. That's criticism of GRRM's writing, which is fair, but it shouldn't seep into your interpretation of characters' motivations. Certainly, some of your examples are cases where men act of out romantic love or desire - Jorah, Daario and Viserys - but the rest? Illyrio - we don't know what Illyrio's motives are just yet. But it's not like it's ooc or ridiculous for Illyrio to give expensive gifts. "It was a truly magnificent gift, though she knew that Illyrio could afford to be lavish." Xaro - Xaro isn't more inclined towards boys, he's fully gay with zero interest in Dany beyond the power he thought he would gain w ith her dragons. This is your weakest example because a big deal was made out of the Qartheen wedding laws would have allowed him possession of one of Dany's dragons, as well as the fact that he didn't once look at Dany lasciviously, even while she had a boob out. There's no question the thing Xaro desires is power. Kraznys - Another weak example because the text is pretty explicit with his motivation. "she could see it in the glitter of their eyes and the smiles they tried so hard to hide [...] And the Ghiscari lust for dragons." The theme among Dany's adversaries seems to be greed and pride. As to the plausibility of the situation, does a gun seller expect a customer to shoot them after a purchase gun? Drogo - in the first chapter, Dany says this about the Dothraki: "She had never seen [...] people so strange and frightening" implying they hadn't met before the wedding. This was a prearranged deal, where Drogo would lend his manpower to Viserys in exchange for the prestige of marrying the last female Targ. And he had no plans to invade Westeros, even after he started to respect Dany. Viserys - his actions were as much about his own ego as it was lust. The passage in which his attempted rape was brought up makes a point to mention his vanity and greed. Daario - Daario lusted for Dany, but he's also described as flamboyant and bloodthirsty. His actions don't strike me as outrageous for him. There are Helen of Troy parallels to be seen in the Robert-Rhaegar rivalry for Lyanna, and I think that was done on purpose, but it's not a 1:1 parallel. And while I don't disagree that irrationality caused by lust is a theme in the books, I don't think it's as extreme or prevalent as you make it out to be. If anything, it's subverted in this series because, as I show above, rarely are characters motivated solely by lust. Then where are you getting your interpretations? If you can't back up your assertions with textual evidence, it's headcanon.
  15. Hodor the Articulate

    Why did George give daenerys everything

    I already explained what I meant, so please don't put words in my mouth.
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