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Posts posted by hodorisfaclessman

  1. On 6/6/2019 at 7:50 AM, Br16 said:

    I know that in the books House Lannister still has its gold, so much that Kevan even considered paying IB with Casterly gold. However, I can't help but think that Tywin (while he was alive) did not use his money usefully. For example:

    1) After greyjoy rebellion, why didn't he use it as an excuse to build a massive (say 200 ship)  fleet and invest in the merchant shipping business? Seems like a good way to protect and extend trade/ diversify the economy, and secretly increase his martial power without attracting suspicion as he could hide behind the Iron Island's threat. Especially considering that other than mining, Westerlands has limited farming potential.

    2) Lannister army seems not very impressive considering his legendary wealth. It just seems normal for a Great House, only better equipped.

    3) He never seems to establish charities (philantrophy could be a powerful political tool).

    4) Never heard of significant infrastructure investments in the Westerlands invested by him.

    What do you guys think? 


    Bear in mind as a lord getting deep into commerce and worrying over funds is seen as beneath them ( see freys) plus like all the debtors the crown owed he was prob getting some nice interest anyway on top of his already seemingly limitless wealth

    1) traders are already comming into lannisport to sell all manner of items for gold or trade goods for westerlands metals etc ....increasing the westerlands military and merchant navy isnt gonna massively alter that . If was gonna go down that path investing in essosi buissness through the iron bank would prob be an easier and more productive shout

    2)its the 2nd largest force and probably tied with the reach for best equiped and best % heavy cavalry etc . Tywin also added an elite loyal force of footsmen  to protect lannisters after witnessing abductions and raised up house clegane to give him 2 of westeros best warriors.......cant do much better than that.

    3) not many great lords do 

    4) theres very little lords would do but theres no indication its in any great need of it either

    Jamies rage at someone attacking near casterly rock ( tyrions first wife) would strongly hint at a well patroled  area where incidents of crime near the rock are rare.

  2. Roose by far

    Tywin did what he did to, he drove a powerful family  into the ground to stop people mocking the lannisters so people would fear him again  and then his already mocked  wilful son marries a commoner.

    He tried to break tyrion  of his rebellious ways hurting the lannister family name  and also cut him loose of a useless marriage ...dwarf or not his 2nd name could secure an alliance



    Roose by contrast is just a monster by his own admission his actions will prob ruin his house so they are utterly short sighted for his own gain

  3. Stannis would be miserable as always but an highly effective leader and westeros wouldnt be the same mess

    Robert would be free to whore and dedicate himself utterly to warfare ,hed never grow fat hed remain a badass into middle age ,a pitbull to be set on his kings enemies

    Renly with stannis as head of the kingdom and family would have to not be such a shallow dude hed have to actualy be of worth to the kingdom ,hed still love loras so would need to be married off to margery to be with loras  and stop a scandal

  4. 10 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

    If Tywin had joined Robert's Rebellion before the battle of the bells. Perhaps the Westerlands forces could help the other rebels to obliterate the royal forces there.


    Would there have been arranged a marriage between Tywin and one of the Tully sisters in the prelude to Tywin joining the rebellion? Which of the Tylly sisters would Tywin have gotten most likely? If Lysa's coupling with Petyr had been known would Tywin refuse her? How may Tywin and Eddard's reputations influence which man he marries his daughters too? Would Cersei be married to Robert Baratheon or perhaps even Jon Arryn? Would a marriage alliance be neccesary for Tywin to join the rebellion?

    If Tywin had rebelled would the Iron Islanders prefer to attack the Westerlands instead of the Reach?


    Would House Frey feel safer to commit themselfes to the rebel cause?


    How would Jaime be impacted by such a divergence from canon? Assuming Tywin thought Jaime would die, would it not be likely that he would look to wed. Perhaps a internal Westerlands match or a marriage with important rebell houses.

    The combined forces would mean the rebellion would have been over quicker , less lords would be less willing to side vs tywin plus his family frey links woulda prob helped swing lord frey to the much larger rebellion forces.

    Thex factor  question would be jamie , seeing the way the wind was blowing and knowing his fathers reaction rhaeggar prob would have moved to send him away before the mad king had him captured.

  5. 11 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

    When Hoster Tully and Jon Arryn we’re bartering for troops and Jon agrees to take Lysa to wife for Hoster’s troops, why didn’t Hoster warn Jon about Littlefinger, who had gotten Lysa pregnant out of wedlock, whose lands were under Jon’s jurisdiction? Placing Lysa so close to Petyr left her vulnerable to his attentions and a prime target for patronage and later manipulation.

    In fact, if I were Hoster, I’d be scared of Petyr having someone put a bolt in my head, because he’d surely want to get back at me for betrothing Catelyn to Brandon Stark. For gods’ sake, keep him away from Hoster’s daughters, it’s too much of a risk. Plus, he does like boasting about taking the virginities of both Catelyn and Lysa...

    I think lysa being 'soiled goods' was an open secret hoster insisted jon take her as part of the pact for his support in the rebellion ,jon himself may have known but  not have known exactly who had been having his wife to be! 

    Hoster prob wasnt worrried about peter as once sent back to the fingers he was of 0 threat to anyone and never expected to rise so high let alone be close to lysa again

    The boasting part prob came much later and never openly said  to jon arryn

  6. 13 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

    The only mention of taking more time to gather it's strenght is about the north. Also the north is much bigger. For a umber to reach Moat Caillin would take much more time than any distance in Dorne. Doran also had much more time to gather his force than Robb had. Robb went south in a hurry, Doran sit in Dorne during the whole war and then only send 10k with Rhaegar after Aerys threat his sister.

    Yeah, but it happened and he failed to read her and realize that she was trying to gain his attention. He never told her anything and let things get worse and worse.


    Please show me the quote that points out such plan. Everything we know so far, the only plan he had was Viserys and that wasn't even put in pratice when ended.

    Its strength varies one day its around the north the next its iron islands level ,and distance travelled over dessert isnt easy going ..the north is far far bigger yes but outsode of winter is as easy to traverse as anywhere else

    Hes not a mind reader and again that would put him in the same category as most westeros lords ,her screwing around seems the norm for dornish ladies


    He had a plam with viserys that ended and soon after the viper who he worked alongside went to kl...coincidence?no He virtualy spells it out for his daughter and the snakes if you re read ...what did you think he was talking about with all the grass and snake talk? It couldnt be clearer their entire thing was a good cop-bad cop  routine

  7. 14 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

    When Robb calls the Northern Banners he gathers a host of about 18 thousand men. How do Dorne and the Vale compare to this (I don't expect numbers, just general feeling)

    I'd say these three kingdoms were roughly equal in the force they could assemble... but the north is much bigger, so it takes longer for an army to gather. And life is harsher there as well, so lords and smallfolk both need to think carefully before beating those plowshares into swords.


    Viserys got killed in the end.


    From where do you get that this is his plan? If Oberyn tried anything was by his own account, Doran even when he reveal himself does not says anything about it.

    She found out a letter of her father trying to pass her over in the sucession line, Doran reject proposal of bethrothal with Edmure, but then paired her with old man after old man. As lady she should keep her maidenhood, but even when she lost it to a bastard, trying to get a reaction from him he did nothing... If she grew to be unstable is his fault, another one to add to the list of his failures.

    Hoster tried to marry off Brynden. I doubt he would try to force it upon his brother if he hadn't the authoritive. Doran was the head of his family, he should be able to control them. Instead he let him run wild and cause even more trouble. Oberyn still being single should also be saw as a mistake.

    Heat is just as harsh as cold , dornes bannermen must rally in areas cut off by dessert which cant be crossed quickly

    On the grasslands he was outta varys reach


    They clearly had a joint plan man thats the entire point of dorans big reveal about a snake and the grass


    She found that by fluke .....and by your measure then all lords are failures as most hhave unruly kids even ned

    He had the authority to arrange a bethrothal but brynden had the right to refuse (but be cut off from family wealth) outside of marriage who they bed is their own buisness...hes not tywin 

  8. 7 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

    Oberyn still wanted to keep fighting after KL fall, so they still had strenght. GRRM also says that Dorne has the same strenght of the north and the vale.

    Dorne needed much less time to gather their strenght than the north, and even there, Doran had the entire war to do it...

    Lord Darry died and let Viserys alone with his baby sister to live for themselfs, the guy gained the nickname of beggar... if he isn't needing support in this situation, when would he ? Things got so bad he had to sell everything of value he had.

    No it wasn't. he never had any plan during this period and got content with whatever bone the Lannisters threw at him. And he wasn't trying to kill Tywin as he says himself.

    “You mistake patience for forbearance. I have worked at the downfall of Tywin Lannister since the day they told me of Elia and her children. It was my hope to strip him of all that he held most dear before I killed him, but it would seem his dwarf son has robbed me of that pleasure. I take some small solace in knowing that he died a cruel death at the hands of the monster that he himself begot.

    I doubt that he could strip Tywin of all he held without getting in a war.

    She is his heir. She should have be told of what was happening, just like Manderly is doing with his grandaughter. The fact that he let the situation get to a point where she tries a coup is enough to show that he is incompetent.


    He wasn't trying to kill Tywin, as mentioned already. 

    If he does not have control of his daughter, he does not have control of his young brother and he does not have control of his bannerman, than he is a terrible lord.

    He does not have any big sucess so far. He talk a lot but hasn't done anything that is worth note yet. He says he is caution, but I hear craven.

    After kl fall it was all over itd have been 4- 5 kingdoms vs 2 

    What makes you think they take massively less time ? Their lands are dessert its not easily crossed quickly 


    Again varys had them covered ,they were never in any real danger  only their pride


    That was a hope as anyone would wish on their enemies but not his plan ,his plan clearly involved letting the viper wreck havoc  at kl 


    Nope she and her entourage are clearly unstable (hence coup and coup leaks and whatever darkstars plan is) bear in mind the coup only comes about due to a  complete fluke of arianne seeing private  corresepondence too


    Nonsense he has some.control as lord but hes not all powerful,its a feudal system remember not some modern dictatorship (or somewhere inbetween ala tywin)  ,his brother is free to bed who he pleases and his bannerman was well within his rights to demand combat after catching his woman with the viper


    Craven and caution are 2 sides of the same coin,so far his main plan was seconds away from an incredble victory that woulda left lannisters in chaos!  He is now moving pieces into place again through the sandsnakes could all  bear fruit



  9. 2 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

    Doran has nothing but failures in his resume... it's not just about his kids.

    During Robert's Rebellion he only sends 10k with Rhaegar. If he had send all his troops he may have changed the trident and saved his sister... he choosed "caution" and let the rebels won.

    His plan of revenge was to support a begger king, but he never send him any real support, I doubt that even Viserys new of such deal, then Viserys died and Doran was left with nothing.

    When the war of the 5 king broke out, once again he had the chance to get his revenge, his target was fighting the whole realm, it was the perfect time to get his revenge, instead he once again choose caution(cowardice) and let the Lannisters win the war and grew even more strong.

    He never trusted his heir with his plans, and ambition to the point he alienated her so much she tried a coup against him. His wife abandoned him, his brother went to KL got involved in a kingslayer trial and got killed, he send his son into a suicide mission in Essos, and now he is sending Arianne into another mission.

    As a lord he let his brother piss of his strongest bannerman, and had to send his son as hostage in compensation. One of his bannerman almost killed his daughter in law, his heir tried a coup against him.

    Doran seems a complete failure and until he shows something, it's hard to take him seriously.

    Do we realy know he has many more ? Plus like robb it might have been as much as he could muster quickly

    He didnt but any overt support could have tipped off others and with varys viserys was never in any real danger

    His plan during the wot5k was to strike tywin and gregor precisely not their armies alone ,thats what the viper had obviously prepped for 

    Why would he ? until he humbled her she was a huge liability ,look at who she brings into her coup!  As hotah correctly  said ''some one talked....someone always talks''

    His wife leaves him yes but it was a short lived marriage of passion

    The viper going to kl was the plan, he failed to execute it correctly yes but bear in mind he was seconds from a victory that might have torn lannisters apart! And may have posioned tywin already if you believe that theory

    As lord he doesnt have that much control  vassals and kin will fight duels of honour as is their right ...as their lord he has no right to interfere,feudalism doesnt give him that much power to interfere in personal matters between lords. Once killed he needed that bannerman as ally not enemy so sent his son away....fine the son would normaly be fostered at a strong bannermans household anyway!


    Overall his story seems.to be of best laid plans alter with time and circumstance but that doesnt mean hes a failure or that he wasnt close to suceeding




  10. On 10/10/2018 at 8:22 PM, Ellard Stark said:

    I’ve seen Westeros described as a martial aristocracy. Every lord is supposed to be a warrior (in theory). Their sons are supposed to begin martial training in early childhood. Their homes are fortresses. Their authority derives from their ability to protect their holdings and enforce their will through strength-of-arms. Though the details vary, this is true from Winterfell to the Sunspear.

    Some of the individual states are very good at certain aspects of warfare. Bravos, is a naval powerhouse, Myr seems to have an edge in weapons technology, and Qohor has the best armorers and metalsmiths in the world.


    The Stepstones: 1400 Men under Aurane waters, 3 Warships.

    The Stepstones: 620 Men under Salladhor Saan, 14 Ships.

    Tyrosh: 14K Levy, 3000 Tyroshi City Watch, 300 merchant guards, 250 Ships.

    Lys: 13K Levy, 3270 City Watch, 400 Lysene Pikemen, 300 Ships.

    Myr: 15K Levy, 2000 City Watch, 2300 Crossbowmen, 430 Ships

    Pentos: 1900 City watch, 20 Warships, Pentos is Forbidden from raising an army except for the city watch.

    Braavos: 18K Levy, 400 Titan Guards, 3000 City Watch, 1000 Ships.

    Lorath: 4K Levy, 2200 City Watch, 60 Ships.

    Norvos: 9K Levy, 760 Holy Warriors, 2500 City Watch, 50 Ships.

    Selhorys and Valysar: 700 Heavy Cavalry, 300 Archers.

    Volantis: 21K Levy, 3000 Slave Soldiers , 4000 Tiger Cloaks,140 War Elephants, 400 War Galleys.

    Qohor: 4300 Levy, 3300 Unsullied(City Watch),200 Heavy Cavalry,70 Ships.


    Something about Elephants

    Where do these numbers come from?

  11. 8 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

    Yup, they are screwed if Aegon or Dany become ruler as neither are likely to take ownership of the Baratheon's debt. They'd simply claim them as being pretenders with them having no responsibility for it. 


    Id highly doubt any of them would be so stupid.

    Both have spent most of their life in essos and are well aware of the ib power,its not an enemy anyone wants

  12. 17 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

    How was Viserys planning on taking the Iron Throne with the Dothraki?

    • The Dothraki only respect strength, which Viserys lacks, therefore they won’t listen to him.
    • The Dothraki don’t cross the Narrow Sea, or any type of sea for that matter. How fit for battle will they be if they’re puking out their guts five minutes before making landfall and battle?
    • There are very few houses who are genuinely loyal to the Targaryens anymore and would not rally to his banner.

    Bear in mind hes a moron

    •he doesnt fully understand them no he prob thinks that drogo will assign a force that will follow him as payment for his sister

    •i think plan wasnt for battle right away ....make landfall on friendly soil first

    •he doesnt know that he still thinks half the realm has his back, reach and dorne at least


  13. Hard to say having dragons doesnt necessarily guarantee easy  victory (look at dorne) and essos is awash with dangerous military assets and assasins ...pkus theres the unkown

    Maybe the shaddowbinders, facelessmen etc get involved and who knows what other horrors and magic is far east , or what assets yi ti could field

  14. 1 hour ago, •Brandon Ice Eyes said:

    So I’ve never understood why Joffrey was so fond of the hound, Sandor Clegane. Can somebody explain please?

    The hound is one of the most feared warriors in all the realm and utterly loyal ,he allows jofferys dark  bullying side to be nurtured ,he has a similar outlook  to joff in many things such as killing and  mocking and bullying  the weak and his jokes (esp at tyrions expense) match his cruel sense of humour 


  15. 6 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

    So he did. Thanks for the answer. Still it’s odd Tully(a man who nearly killed his own daughter to spare his family embarrassment), would give a privilege that would/should be offered to a house of great rank no? I’m sorry minor quibble you’ve already answered my question and thus I’m finished with this thread.

    Well hosting wards is pretty normal and sometimes its not all political a great lord can do it as a mark of genuine friendship

    Also bear in mind hoster hasnt the same pressure as lesser lords to forge alliances for security etc ,hes got an unmarried son  and  has his 2 daughters  married  to 2 of the other 7 regions leaders , his son in law is the kings bestie and the king owes his crown to him!

  16. 49 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

    As the ward of a Lord Paramount, I'd think that Petyr would have training in arms.

    Probably did but he was smaller and weaker and not a noted swordsman..hed be adverage at best whereas brandon was basicaly northern robert!

    Brandon has  a huge size,speed,skill and prob exp  advantage over him....basicaly it was always gonna be an ass whupping! Hence why cat tells brandon to not kill him not to be careful

    By contrast bronn probably prefers to fight light armour (prob never afford full suit of plate) and is a skillled warrior....he  knows he sacrifices protection for speed but has probably done so most of his life

    He makes a measured dec  to stand for tyrion when he sees an older smaller man of no real note as a warrior  and is confident in his ability to match most he meets anyway....had lysa chosen lynn corbray  or brozne royce itd have been different 

  17. 9 hours ago, Kandrax said:

    Bronn is skilled swordsman, while as far as know Petyr never fought against anyone before Brandon.

    Also one of factors of Bronn's victory was a fact that Vardis used Arryn's sword and armour(though, i am maybe wrong about armour) which slowed him.

    He used a beautiful cerimonal sword of jons instead of the more practical one he was used to, but the armour was his own

    Plus if i recall bronn had reach advantage  on him too as well as youth

    Hes faster in limited armour plus probably used to fighting in limited armour as a poor sellsword who probably couldnt afford full suit of plate



  18. 10 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

    When Littlefinger wanted to duel Brandon Stark for Catelyn's hand, why didn't he think of fighting Brandon the same way Bronn fought Ser Vardis Egen, by dodging everything, waiting for him to tire, and then stabbing him? He just sounds like he went in there with no strategy, and almost got torn to pieces. Those underdogs he looked up to got through their problems because they had a plan.

    Because bronn was the better fighter who fights a specific way ,lf isnt a skilled fighter and brandon is specifaly named by ned as a great warrior(bear in mind brandon felt he could beat rhaeghar one on one)

    Even then we learn bronn had some near misses in that fight  and probably wouldnt have volunteered at all had lysa choosen say bronze royce or lyn corbray


    Brandon is bigger ,probably faster and wayyy more skilled.....no plan could have saved lf from an ass whupping basicaly it was a mismatch

  19. 1 hour ago, Ylath's Snout said:

    Sure Jaime going by pure physicality is at an advantage but Robert isn't some cripple. Add to that all sorts of x-factors like the mental state of both combatants and the like and the outcome is far from guaranteed one way or the other. Jaime isn't a demi-god or Wuxia action hero after all.

    Can't help but think that it wouldn't matter much anyway. The other King's Guard should either kill/imprison Jaime before Robert can risk his life and if Bobby B did get got then they'd be right there to cut down the Kings Slayer.

    Yeah... but clearly we are pretty far from the books at this point so we can freely ignore GRRM and his "don't matter" attitude to castles and armor.


    Hes not but hes still one of the top 3 fighters in all of planetos at that point , robert by contrast hasnt even trained in years ....itd be a comical mismatch 

    Theres always an xfactor yes bit its like a top ranked boxer taking on a former washed up champ whos been out of training for a decade and has gotten fat ,slow and lazy in that time ! ....and in this robert isnt gonna have months for a rocky style montage to get back into shape

    Kg would help if they hand time and robbie bothered to summon them ..apart from  blout and trant who  are loyal to lannisters ,but barristan would obey and  is their overall  comander  and  the others have no dog in this fight so would obey too. 

    Well its grmms world so we always have to talk about the rules his world obeys

  20. 5 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

    You underestimate how much better of a weapon a warhammer is when fighting a person in full plate armor than a longsword. A warhammer is built for breaking or bypassing armor while someone using a longsword has to aim for specific weak points like eye-slits or joints. To go along the UFC comparison Jaime would be using boxing gloves and Robert a punching dagger. Sure Jaime might still win but gearwise he is much worse off.

    You overestimate it man , its better while horsed but on foot its the weaker choice 

    If robert hits jamie with such a legendary heavy hammer it could end it in one but he hasnt been in the yard in years  he may not be able to even lft it let alone use it quick enough to avoid death......hes simply  not landing that killing shot on a younger faster man esp when hes so badly out of shape ,even in his youth he may not have taken a young jamie let alone now.

    Jamies at books start is  probably the most lethal one on one  combatant in all of westeros ,robert isnt top ten at that stage anymore

    You can see modern knight fighting constests where plate or not you can knock someone senseless or down (death in a real fight)  with a longsword in  seconds (try youtube 'longsword fight murder blow' for a brutal example ) as well as kill with halfswording or injure at joints if such things were legal etc! 


    Now rememeber we are talking asoiaf where armour doesnt seem to matter as much too!

  21. 1 hour ago, PrinceHenryris said:


    I don't understand why so many are worried about Jaime.  Robert is not Wyman Manderly.  He still rides and hunts.  He may not be what he was on the Trident, but he killed a boar while mortally wounded.  If we factor in the warhammer versus sword dynamic, the fight's a lot closer than many people would think.

    As for Tywin, I'd worry even less.  As many have pointed out, the Tyrells would have Margery on the road to KL before the Ravens had plucked out Cersei's eyes, and she'd probably have a nice big army, ready to support Robert with her.

    With the Tyrells in the fold, we'd be looking at Tywin versus the Crownlands, Stormlands, Reach, Vale, Riverlands and the North.   I sincerely doubt Dorne would help Tywin.  If Doran did anything, he'd probably send troops to support the Crown against Tywin. 

    Who knows what Balon Greyjoy will do, but are the Iron Islands aren't enough to tip the battle?

    As for the Crown owing money to the Lannisters, what better way to erase the debt than erasing the Lannisters?

    Agree with all that apart from top part

    Got era Robert vs jamie is a massive mismatch, the mans too fat to even get his armour on and jamie is rightlybacknowledge as one of if not the premier   warrior in westeros at that point

    He rides and hunts yes but so do many old lords ,a warhammer doesnt offer any kimd of advantage over a sword (if any) thats gonna fix mismatch...better gloves than the ufc champ doesnt guarantee a win over one