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Makk

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  1. Makk

    Whats the point of BwB storyline now?

    We don't really have a good view into their motivations. There is no point of view within the order and the only brief viewpoints we get are from Arya, who is a captive and pre-Stoneheart, Merrett who they hate and hang shortly after, and Brienne. Brienne would be the best viewpoint but something seems off to me about her entire time with them. I feel her entire interaction is tainted because they are deliberately misdirecting their motivations to get her to do something she would normally not consider - betray someone - in this case Jaime. They achieve that by convincing her that they are absolutely rotten and will hang the innocent Podrick Payne. I'm not saying that they are not driven by vengeance, but I doubt that is their sole purpose, and it is definitely not mindless. They want Jaime for something and I doubt it is to simply hang him. What could that be? It is my guess that she means to exchange Jaime for Jon, and fulfill Robb's last command that Jon should become King in the North. How fortuitous that Catelyn can also resurrect the dead and Jon happens to currently be dead. Catelyn and Jon also have one of the most developed and nuanced relationships in the books, I struggle to believe it will just be left like that, nor that Robb's will will just be ignored. Anyhow, whatever GRRM has planned for the BHWB, whether it's simply mindless vengeance as most people assume or something else, GRRM has said that it is important. He has been recently quoted as saying that Catelyn has a big part to play in Winds.
  2. Several reasons. 1) He (rightly) believes that with Lannisters on the throne and Boltons ruling the North, the wall will be at best ignored and at worst attacked from the south (Cersie's and Tywins scheming has already started). This would most likely result in all of humanity being destroyed by the Others. He don't know this for certain but he does believe no one else is suitable as commander of the nightswatch. Stannis believes in the threat and has already aided the wall. 2) He wants Stannis to leave him the Wildlings 3) Because Ramsay and Roose are psychopaths and would also likely be personal enemies given the family history. 4) Personal reasons. Red wedding, Ned's execution, Janos Slynt and Bowen Marshes plotting. Jon isn't perfect in his honour and people should accept that. He stepped outside his oath to start playing the game of thrones. But it was still the right thing to do as he is also sworn to guard the realms of men. To keep one oath he needs to break another. He was thrust into an impossible situation and is trying to do his best. Attacking Alliser Thorne for defaming his father was wrong. Attempting to ride off to join Robb was wrong. I didn't really like Jon as a character early in the series. My first impression throughout all of book one was of a moody immature teenager of middling competence. But I agree with pretty much everything he has done from the start of the second book onwards.
  3. Makk

    Daenerys and the number 3

    Jon and Daenerys are both intelligent and capable. The pointless arguments against the other by their respective "fans", are not. It's an interesting thread.
  4. Makk

    The execution of Janos Slynt was spot on

    That's not really a military definition of desertion (although they do vary). It could be considered AWOL. But desertion is permanent. I don't really see the benefit of getting dragged into semantics though we all know what happened and Jon considered himself to be an oath-breaker. Comparing the risk/benefit of Mormont pardoning Jon and Jon pardoning Slynt is a completely different situations though. Killing Slynt was not only acceptable within the law, but it was also essential for Jon's authority. It made the watch stronger whereas the other way around Jon is a great boon to the nightswatch and morally a much, much superior person. Mormont would have to be a complete moron to execute Jon when he could look the other way.
  5. Even though I don't see things happening the way that writer did, it was an interesting read. But what does it have to do with the Hound? I have a feeling the fact that Randyll Tarly holds Margaery is significant. I think he is about to stab the Tyrells in the back and side with fAegon. If that happened, I suspect Margaery is in a world of trouble as her trial may devolve into a sham all around fAegon gaining the support of the Faith.
  6. Makk

    The execution of Janos Slynt was spot on

    As an aside, and this is moving slightly off topic, to me Jon's big mistake here was not cutting off Slynt's head (in fact I can't even understand why this is such a contested discussion), but rather offering Slynt a command in the first place. What if he was slightly smarter and took it? Did Jon guess he would refuse?
  7. Makk

    The execution of Janos Slynt was spot on

    I'm afraid I don't agree with you at all. The idea was to challenge Jon's authority as soon as he becomes lord commander. And introduce the new Lord Snow, as he becomes quite a different character, in brutal fashion. This cannot be delayed at all. The plot hangs open of course because there were other conspirators. I don't think Slynt is a particularly interesting foil either because he is so obviously corrupt and stupid. Bowen Marsh was the better choice to hang around.
  8. I don't think it was full out mutiny at that stage, but it was a deliberate attempt to undermine the new, raw, untested lord commander's authority. Jon really had no choice or others would have been encouraged to do the same. It is true that Jon loathed Slynt. But he managed to push those feelings aside and gave Slynt a chance. That directly contradicts this threads premise.
  9. Makk

    Book Jon vs. Show Jon

    I think Elolm sums it up pretty well. The characters really diverge after he becomes lord commander. In fact some decisions are completely opposite. In the show Sam has to convince Jon he should become a maester but in the books Jon has to force him. In the show Jon argues to seal the gates of the wall shut but in the books he demands that they remain available for access to go north of the wall. The show also removed most of his relationship with Robb and Catelyn. There are numerous flashbacks in the books to help understand the dynamics of it, and I think they will be very important in the next book. Did they remove Robb's will from the show? There are hints Jon is somewhat of a berserker, or at least much more deadly and strong, when he is angry. He is normally on a par with Iron Emmett (best fighter at eastwatch) , but when he got angry one time he obliterates him. He also has amazing strength on a couple of other occasions when angry. The show basically removed all his gameplaying and passed it off to other characters like Davos or Sansa (neither of which are present the way they are in the show).
  10. Yes she hates Jon but it is a complicated relationship. GRRM spent quite a few words building that relationship up and Robb's last command was that Jon succeed him as King in the North. GRRM's writing is built around conflict of the human heart in his characters. And yes he is dead yet the person we are talking about can can resurrect someone. Hmmm, why does the writer bother building that magic into his books.
  11. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZsY3lcDDtTdBWp1Gx6mfkdtZT6-Gk0kdTGeSC_Dj7WM/edit#gid=8 All explained in there.
  12. Do consider the disparate timelines. The last scene we saw of Jaime happened 2-3 months before Jon was killed. Whatever they are doing they will have to vanish from sight for a while before they intersect with another storyline.
  13. I think that Catelyn wants him to exchange his white cloak for a black as an exchange to free Jon from his nightwatch vows.
  14. Makk

    Justin Massey

    I think Arya would hear Jon was dead just as a rumour around the docks with or without Massey. I do agree that will bring her back to westeros though.
  15. Makk

    If Aegon is fake, does Jon Con know?

    No, in fact I believe quite the opposite. He knows Aegon is Illyrio's son.
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