ovis alba

Not sure what to vote exactly, but I didn't like the episode: - Dorne just seems like such a waste and I feel it's getting worse with every episode, I just wanted to skip the Sand Snakes slapping each other scene when it came up - the leadup to the Shireen burning to me just was way too flat, nothing from that gave me a good sense of real desperation, to me that is something they would have had to build up much better for the outcome to actually have the sense of desperate measures that it should have, and that includes also the placement of the scene within the episode. Cutting from that scene to the cheering arena with Daario flirting around cheapend the impact of that scene way too much for my taste - Jon coming back was in general ok, but they should have included Olly angrily looking towards Jon at least once more, because there might be someone left in this whole wide world that didn't get it the first 5 times that Olly is not happy with Jon - Also didn't really like the pit scene too much, I never like it when people (especially people that should be the center of people attacking) can basically stand there and have a little chit-chat or have a little romantic moment with their dragon, while everyone politely stands back for the moment to not disturb the scene. the fact that her fully white dress is basically still completely white afterwards is kind of typical for that (I mean seriously I can't even eat spaghetti with tomato sauce without a stain on a white shirt :blushing: ) - I also don't know how I feel about the apparently at least starting battle around Winterfell next week, by placing that Shireen burning diretcly before that battle, I feel like they removed basically all the emotional involvement for the viewer because people don't care for either of the sides anymore (at least that was the response I had from all the people I watched with). I simply doesn't seem to matter who wins anymore, they are all horrible anyway. So overall an episode that I feel should have been great with a huge emotional impact for the viewer for the Shireen scene alone, but at least to me the whole episode around it couldn't deliver a good enough "frame" to make that moment stand out.

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But before she is aware of that, she basically "gets ready" to get it over with and is then relieved when he calls it off, same thing when Littlefinger tells her to marry Ramsay, where she is initially shocked, but then is putting on her pokerface and "does what needs to be done". I expected a little more of this sort of attitude I guess, as she already had it before and also from last weeks dinner scene it seemed like she got "better" at it.

I guess to me it was kind of an average episode. The Arya was the biggest plus, the Dorne part the biggest minus. King's Landing felt kind of weirdly rushed (maybe because they skipped it last week) and THE scene with the most discussion about to me was not as horrible as for many others, but in combination with other scences Sansa seems to simply jump between different personalties too much. I expected either a Sansa comparable to her first wedding night, who kind of is aware of her duty and ready to get it over with or a Sansa more from last episode being a somewhat stronger personality and maybe a bit more in control (I actually expected some Margaery-Joffrey kind of vibe), but the latter would have made the scene probably even more horrible to watch. i guess it just seems a little weird to me that she seems actually more overwhelmed and intimidated now than she was in her wedding night with Tyrion.

He's probably having a secret camping trip with Benjen, Rickon and Osha somewhere. :D

Do you really mean the RW? Or do you mean the PW? I could agree on the latter, but the RW really doesn't cover enough for a whole episode and the fact that it seems maybe a little bit like a "sidestory" adds a lot to it's tension in my view.

Just watched the ending again. Was not sure about it the first time, but I actually like it and here is why: - it puts more focus on the Nightswatch, because now it does matter that they managed to hold the castle themselves. With Stannis showing up it would very likely have seemes a lot like just him saving the day and the fact that the Nightswatch really managed to stand against this first attack adds some credit to their importance. - the viewers really have the feeling that all is lost now, because it can settle in for a week. It might have been just a little too similar to Blackwater otherwise, when it ends again with someone arriving by surprise that turns things around. Now instead the battle is pretty much over, but hope is lost and it can stick with people for a while. - I like that the scene of Jon leaving to talk with Mance stands a little more on its own now and is not squeezed in between two spectacular battles. The scene back then when reading felt a little "Harry Potterish" to me (i hope at least some people get what scene exactly I mean) and I think ending it with him wandering of just sets up very nice tension for a big finale.

Was a weird one (probably because I was waiting for the fighting all the time): - The Greyworm story in general is ok for me, but it felt weird in the episode, just sort of too long and too fillerish - Bolton part was quiet good, I just sort of wished they kept the Ramsay becoming a Bolton part for "The children" (I know it's probably too much in there already, but it just would have felt to fit the theme so well) - Arya's scene was a little weird. Hardly any reaction to her being alive? How is LF not going to know that she showed up? I liked the crazy laugh though. - I enjoyed Sansa. In the end it got maybe a little bit too "Malificent", but overall I like it - I would have placed the Wall part more towards the end, I think to lead up more to what is coming, but it was ok - The Beetle. I really don't know what to make of it. Probably just too long and maybe forshadowing the fight, because I expected a more "satisfying" ending for that story. :D - The fight itself was good, maybe a little too short - Overall I think most of the scenes I liked, but I would have placed them very different. I think with a episode title the duell could have been a little more prominent and of course it has to end with that, but I would have also maybe started with KL shorten the part of brotherlove before the duell, but maybe have an additional scene with a Tyrion "metaphoric speech thingy" at the very beginning of the episode (maybe with Oberyn in, I sort of found it a little sad that there was no glimpse of him at all before the fight scene started), so that the duell would have "framed" the episode (and maybe the speech could have been some general metaphor also connecting the others scenes of the episode a little more thematically), then the wall stuff more towards the end as a transition for what's to come. I don't know, I just feel the episode was a little bit more "puzzled" together than previous ones, where they found a more general theme which connects the pieces (like the "sibling" episode) But maybe there was a overall theme and I just missed it, being excited for the fight. :D So while I liked many individual scenes as an overall episode it felt maybe not as good as its pieces.

The Beetle story was weird. I sort of got the point, put it just felt like it took away time from other stuff and I was waiting the whole time for some sort of "evil" Tyrion who in the end admits that he just started smashing beetles himself to see what is the point and realised it just feels damn good and powerful and then smashing the beetle in his hands.

I think a main "problem" of the episode is that it deals with a lot of stuff either after an important event or leading up to another big event. It's a lot of people "getting ready for something" or "discussing what just happened" and not much that stands on it's own. That's basically what I got from everyone I talked to bookreader or not, you feel a lot of stuff is getting planned but you sort of wait all episode for things to get going and although Dany's scene actually has stuff going on, it's still her getting ready to take the city, so that even ends with somthing like that. This in combination with an episode right before which turned a lot of things around, makes it sort of a filler, which is not really "bad" but just doesn't have that big impression to people.

I think that was plan A But I think when you poison someone, in case someone notices it was poison anyway you should always have a plan B which is: hide the poison on someone else. And I think the Tyrells are too smart for not having plan B. And I don't really believe in the Tyrells genuine care for Sansa, I think if anything the Tyrells are very pragmatic, they side with whoever seems likely to win, first Renly then the Lannisters. Sansa might have been a nice addition to get hold of the North but after she got married to Tyrion she sort of lost some value despite the fact that the Tyrells are known to sort of care for her and the fact that she clearly has more reason to hate Joffrey so who better to use as a poison delivery? Especially as the Tyrells that like her so much would never set her up. ;)

Totally crossing with you there :D

True, although being scared to death is not so unworthy imo. Because Tywin seriously would scare me :D

I would prefer the Sansa thing just because it would give her some sort of "backbone" again. Crying Shae of last episodes made her look so desperatly dependend, which is very different from the Shae I have in mind, when I think about the books but also early ShowShae. Her being forced into betraying Tyrion would make her look even more like the crying little girl and I would rather like to see a little bit more of the manipulative whore again than the scared girl.

I'm wondering if they make Shae's betrayal also about her chosing Sansa over Tyrion as both might get blamed especially after Sansa disappeared. By trying to "protect" Sansa and putting the whole fault on Tyrion they might tie in her relationship with Sansa.

It's especially interesting as they suspect basically everyone else. I mean Shae? Really? It never even occured to me?

Well, Bran's story changed a lot in the last book and the show is just starting with it. To be honest I also had my times when everytime I turned the page and saw a Bran on top of it, it was a "*sigh* not him again, can we rather get back to someone interesting", it changed a lot though and now he's one of the characters I most look forward to. (Dany sort of now has the "honor" of the *sigh*, although the last chapter of her also finally helped a little with that :D )

Maybe it's the combination of stuff that makes it so complicated: The dragons getting out of control, probably still some Wall stuff that just involves tons of people, Bran can get very CGI-intensive I guess, also depending if they maybe open up the "door to the past" as one could call it, a certain Lady will probably also show up and should need some serious make-up :D , Arya probably needs a ship, maybe the Eyrie needs to be in, too. I can't actually think of ONE big event that would be so complicated, but I guess, getting everything in, with each of the stories being not so straight forward or some of them being CGI intensive or just a location that has not been used so far or not in a long time, might add up from the prodcution point of view

To me it's still way to complicated this way. Yes, I do here something, but s it really the stone? I can not tell. Is it really Joffreys cup? I can not even see it clearly there? Or is it maybe Margaerys cup or plate she drops it in/on to hand it over to her? Or does she just drop it in Margaerys lap and the sound is from the musicians or someone dropping a sword? To me putting it in Joffereys cup at that very moment seems extremly risky, which seems unlikely when a poison is hidden so well to start with. It visually and timely doesn't make any sense to me either to poison him an hour in advance just for him to spill his wine over Tyrion who tries it and doesn't get sick and then to collapse right at that moment where we actually do see him drink from that cup that went through Margaerys hands just before and was standing there unattended while the pie was brought, with the cup also standing pretty close to Olenna, who we see getting the stone before. It just doesn't play out for me.

And magically resublimates conveniantly whenever needed? To ME that does not make any sense compared to putting poison in the drink before someone actually drinks it and then chokes to death right after he drank it. Otherwise the timing of the whole thing would be way to random to play out so perfectly when he drinks from the cup, Tyrion hands him. If there is too much conincidence I rather go with what makes way more sense.

And you know that how? What would be the whole point of the necklace then?

That would be too much of of a coincidence for me as he starts choking exactly when he started drinking again. Slow poison ok, but it sets in the exact moment he starts drinking from the cup again is unlikely. And if it's in the cup to start with the stone from Sansas necklace wouldn't be needed. So, nah not really buying it.

If there is anything about Margaery it's that she is doing her duty. I think she might have not been happy with the plan, but if Olenna told her to do it, she would have done, whatever is asked of her, no matter how she feels about it.

I actually do have a suspicion how i will turn out, but I do have to tread into Spoiler country for it:

Something different: I read by quiet a few people that Joffreys death was not "cruel" enough for them, I however always found it extremly well fitting. In the end, he really is just a pretty young boy that treats people however he wants to, because he feels untouchable. He is protected by his guards, by his mother, his uncle, his grandfather and just plainly by the fact he is king and everyone has to love him. That's why he dares to be the way he is, because of all the people surrounding and protecting him. For him then to die with all these people standing right there, watching him, but not being able to do anything because he might have all the power in the world but he and none of his tons of people are able to fight the very blunt and almost boring, unglamorous fact that a piece of cake (or actually a sip of wine) is making him choke, I just love it. There is probably hardly any death less heroic than this one and I think this is what would bother Joffrey a lot.