Caerl Targaryen

I don't believe I said you said any such thing. My post was a general response to the Emilia Clarke hate. Hence the lack of a quote. Also, TV Jon Snow is almost nothing like his book counterpart.

Maybe Emilia Clarke was better in previous seasons because they didn't simply treat her character's material like it was an afterthought. Iain Glen was better in previous seasons too when they treated Jorah as more than a prop that occasionally spouts plot points to the audience. In other words, they had more to work with. But the writing can't possibly play a role in any of these things because D&D are the best showrunners and writers of all time.

One of those Barristan chapters (Barristan I, I think) was published in the paperback edition of ADWD. It's also in the Kindle Edition.

It looks like there are 6 but only 5 have been available in their entirety as far as I know. - Theon - Mercy - Arianne - Ser Barristan - Tyrion Part of a Victarion chapter was read by GRRM at the end of a TIFF Bell Lightbox interview. That interview should still be available on YouTube. He reads the chapter at the end. Supposedly 2 other Tyrion chapters were read at conventions. I'm unsure if they were unique chapters or if they were the same chapter released in the A World of Ice and Fire app. I haven't been able to find a reliable source to refute or confirm that.

I love all the comments in this thread directed towards people disappointed with the episode and the show. "Stop watching! D&D are gods that can do no wrong!" Please. This show isn't perfect and it's ridiculous to tell those that are criticizing it that "it's no big deal." It is a big deal because D&D's changes indicate they're no longer intending to adapt the story GRRM is writing. That may not bother some people but it sure as hell bothers me. Some of us that have been disappointed with this show started out loving it. D&D started out in good faith at the beginning of the series. They made great claims of being faithful to the books while scaling back or changing little things that would have blown up their budget or would have taken too long. And the show mostly matches those claims early on. As the show has gained popularity, they've invented more and more storylines and changed more and more from the books simply because they can. It's gone out of the realm of "adaptation that's true to GRRM's vision" to fan fiction. D&D are now making changes that seem intended to give book fans the middle finger. They've deliberately changed major storylines and characters in ways that don't even logically flow from what they've written on the show. Characters feel more like props than people reacting to events around them. Changes are fine and acceptable if they make logical sense. Most of the changes they made this season do not make sense. They go on and on about budget and time constraints and then they devote tons of time to invented plots that go nowhere, spend money on elaborate and ultimately hollow set pieces with lots of CGI in an attempt to cover up the lack of depth in their version of events, and rush the bigger, more interesting moments, and then often drop the ball in completely baffling ways. If you change the characters and their motivations, you change the story. This show no longer feels like ASOIAF. It feels like ASOIAF fan fiction. It's becoming generic Hollywood fantasy. That's why I'm so disappointed with the show. They may change directions next season and I may fall in love with the show again. But right now season 4 really left me with a bad taste in my mouth. It wasn't ASOIAF on TV. It was D&D stringing a collection of duels, some plot points, and a ton of nonsense together in a manner that sort of resembles ASOIAF but ultimately falls so short that it doesn't feel like them adapting GRRM's vision. The season is a mess. The pacing is atrocious. It's far from perfection. And these guys can and have done a lot better in the past. Telling people that are disappointed with the direction D&D have chosen to take the show to "deal with it" or "stop watching" feels like little more than people just not wanting to read valid criticism of the show. Some complaints are nothing more than rants or a list of changes. Acting like everyone that posts something negative is doing that is ridiculous. There are lots of well-reasoned posts that express disappointment without resorting to being rude to others because they happen to have a different set of standards.

I did read your post. It wasn't clear to me.

Um, what? It's 163 children that were crucified by the slavers in the book as well. Unless you're referring to a different 163 children...

This. Thank you.

But that's exactly how GRRM describes the dragons in his books.

I was thinking more along the lines of asking for a little bit off the top and they blow your head off with a shotgun. ;) Well said.

As much as I like AFFC and ADWD, I think they're probably the most difficult books when it comes to adapting them to be riveting TV. So much of the development that happens in those books is internal to the characters. The development is necessary to understanding what's coming next but it wouldn't be the most exciting TV. I can see them wanting to give Jaime something more active to do simply for that reason. And that's ignoring the other limitations they're facing. Or in short, I pretty much agree. I don't disagree with any of that. I don't think it necessarily makes story sense or character sense. But it's a change that does make a certain budgetary/screen time sense. That said, I think it will also introduce even bigger problems down the road. The only way I can see it working is if they have Jaime go through a similar arc but just have it be more action driven and less thought driven. Like I said above, though, I'm not very confident that they'll be able to do that after the current season. They desperately need some new writers. I think they've gotten in over their heads by wanting to write so much of each season. They could really use some fresh eyes on things. I remember reading that they were adding at least 1 new writer next season. But they should probably add at least 3. That way they'd be able to focus more on polishing the scripts and breaking the stories.

On one hand, I think that's a logical change simply because it would result in them using an existing character. Viewers are already invested in Jaime as a character. It would also save them money and screen time. On the other hand, it would completely change his character arc. During season 1 I would have thought they could pull off that big of a departure. Now I'm not so sure.

It wouldn't surprise me if he completely replaces Ser Arys Oakheart. I couldn't agree more. Plus, if they had more writers working on the show, they'd have more people to bounce ideas around when it comes to approaching things. Limiting themselves to a handful of writers (mostly just the two of them) is starting to hurt them I think.

Oh that's true. I forgot he leveled up during that storyline and now has a +5 Longclaw and a near perfect spitting ability!

The showrunners killing Jojen doesn't say anything about where GRRM might be headed with the character. It simply says that Jojen won't be important to the storyline on the show moving forward. It doesn't say anything about the books.

Yes, exactly.

We never met Tysha in the books either. They could have worked that part of the story into Tyrion's development. They chose not to for some reason that completely escapes me. What makes it even stranger is they 1) had Tyrion tell that story in season 1 and 2) they reiterated that he had been married before.

I think it's more likely that they're simply changing things because they can. Many of the changes they've made actually contradict large plot points or the internal logic of the story in the books. So I don't think their changes have anything to do with the endgame. In fact, they've often introduced a major change and then had to course correct by introducing another change to get things back on track. I simply don't think they think all of their changes through.

I think this completely sums up my feelings about the changes they make on the show. Scenes that add something of value (e.g., backstory or a better understanding of a character) are great additions because they're relevant to the plot and characters. The deviations that exist simply because are incredibly frustrating to me because it just leaves them with less time to properly deal with the bigger plot points. I love the books and enjoy the show. I just wish the showrunners would reign themselves in with some stuff and focus more on adapting the story from the books instead of just making up shit that hasn't been thought through.

Tywin is a massive hypocrite in the books. That's why he was with Shae. He has sex with prostitutes just his son does. Tyrion is more like Tywin than Tywin wants to admit and it just makes him hate his son all the more. Stannis is at the Wall because he's been convinced that the real war is against the Others. Therefore, there is no more important place for him to be.

Definitely a typo I think. Every source I've found says 66 minutes.

Wow. 116 minutes? I thought it was only going to be 66 minutes.

Actually defend the Wall and not go get himself killed because Ygritte died in front of him? This is a problem they created for themselves on the show. If they had just stuck to the events of the book it wouldn't have even been a problem. So now they're going to have to course correct for yet another unnecessary change. I can't figure out why they felt the need to change one of Jon's defining moments. This episode was more about Sam coming into his own than it was about Jon becoming a leader. It's completely baffling to me why they chose to do that. I still haven't read an explanation regarding how he's demonstrated better leadership skills on the show. I actually want to know why some think that's the case. I'm just not seeing it.

How did he clearly demonstrate his leadership skills? Again, he didn't plan any of the defense of the Wall on the show. That was all Ser Alliser Thorne. When they pushed back Mance's first attempt to test the defenses of the Wall, Jon decides that he will best serve the Night's Watch and his brothers by abandoning them without anyone clearly in charge. This is even stated as being a suicide mission. How is this good leadership? He didn't do anything Edd didn't do. This episode had Jon do the exact opposite of what he does in the book by having him choose to abandon his brothers (something he doesn't want to do there but is forced to by Ser Alliser and Janos Slynt) and by not having him heavily involved in the planning of the defense of the Wall.

How is he more believable as a leader on the show? He didn't organize the defense and simply followed Ser Alliser's orders. He ordered some arrows to be fired and some oil to be dropped, all while letting a mammoth and two giants attach chains to the main gate. Only after the chains are attached and the mammoth starts walking away from the gate does he have anyone do anything about it. If he had had oil dropped as soon as they got close, both giants, all of the wildlings, and the mammoth would have been killed and he wouldn't have lost 6 men to the giant in the tunnel. If wildlings are approaching the gate with giants and a mammoth, you don't wait to see what they might do. They want to bring down the gate. So you kill them ASAP. After he has some arrows fired, he heads down off the wall, kills a few wildlings, and decides to go on a suicide mission without clearly leaving anyone in charge. And that's just this episode. That's not good leadership material.