WSmith84

Seriously, Ramsey needs to be named Supreme Commander of the army of the living. He managed, with 20 men, to burn the supplies and siege weapons of a 6000? man army without a single man getting killed or captured. That's a piece of military genius. It's also, frankly, ridiculous. Stannis burning Shireen at this moment is so problematic. 1) Balon Greyjoy is still alive. That means that his sorceress has only a 67% rate of success. I'd like to think that most people would want a guarantee of success before BURNING THEIR CHILD ALIVE. 2) Melisandre doesn't even make it clear what burning Shireen will achieve. Victory? But how? And is this victory against the Boltons or victory against everybody? In what form? Why doesn't Stannis ask these questions? 3) Shireen is Stannis' only heir. If Stannis dies, who will his supporters rally to? 4) Who the hell would choose to support Stannis now? Who would support an already unlikeable man that just burnt alive his own daughter in the name of a foreign religion? 5) Stannis was not in a desperate enough situation to justify this act. This man spent almost a year inside Storms' End, eating rats and making soup from the glue of books. But apparently after a few days in the snow, he's prepared to burn his only, beloved daughter for some intangible victory.

I didn't realise that such vitriol existed towards people who criticise this show. Personally, I thought the Hardhome stuff was ok. But I think the money spent on that could have been put to better use (like casting some Northern Lords). Sansa's story is just kind of there for me now; I can't think of any reason for her to be in Winterfell and the decision to put her there has weakened the story, especially Theon's. So I just watch the scenes, essentially waiting for them to end. I thought the KL stuff was pretty well done. Arya's stuff was fine, if a bit dull (as it was in the book, tbf). Tyrion and Danaerys was really disappointing. I don't know if it's the direction or Clarke, but her acting seems really bad. I also thought the 'break the wheel' speech was poor writing and simply intended to be a fist-pump moment, rather than actual character development. I thought that leaving out half the noble houses was a bit strange, especially the Martells. And Dany suddenly thinking the common people of Westeros will rise for her after she had that notion talked out of her in S1 was very odd. Did we really need another scene with Olly Checkhov? The character is not interesting enough to warrant the amount of screentime he gets.

Tyrion only started heading to Dany in the latest book and he's going to meet her in the next. But 5 seasons with a character undergoing no character development whatsoever is inexcusable.

It's been five seasons. That's a hell of a long time for a character to go without developing. And if the writers could find no way to have her develop except by getting raped... Then the writers are clearly not very good at what they do.

Hasn't Sam by now though already demonstrated that he's no longer a coward? I must admit, I prefer show!Sam for exactly this reason; he didn't need Jon to tell him he's no longer a coward. And Maester Aemon had just died. That shared grief could have brought them together. But no, instead they wrote another sexual assault. And if they need a reason to send Gilly South, couldn't they just use the excuse that Jon needs a new Maester (Sam) and sends Gilly with him to keepher safe (seeing as they're probably sending Sam South anyway).

Agreed. Whilst Tyrion's stuff in ADWD could do with some heavy trimming, it is still good character building. I've started thinking recently that trying to get through all that Feast and Dance material in one season was too ambitious. I think it could have done with two seasons or a season and a half. They want to get to the plot points without doing the character building, and it's just not working in my opinion. The show currently feels both slow and rushed. Edit: Because, despite many people disliking Feast and Dance, they both have a lot of good stuff in them.

All of those are not examples of what I'm talking about. It's Sansa's development as a character that is important, and putting her in the exact same situation only for her to handle it exactly the same way as before means she hasn't developed at all. Sansa's arc is meant to be about her making her own choices and developing intellectually. Forgive me, but having her idiotically choose to marry the son of the man who murdered her father is not empowering. Also, her revealing her only escape to Theon, acting all sullen to the Boltons, calling Ramsey a bastard to his face and wandering down a dark alley because some random stranger told her to are not signs that she has developed intellectually. And all of this came at the cost of Theon's arc and the Northern story. Characters can exit bad situations only to enter new ones. But they need to grow as characters, or reveal new sides of themselves (Jaime, for example). Sansa hasn't developed at all in the show. They declared that she had, with her Darth Sansa outfit, but you actually have to show character growth. Tyrion is a victim of this. I don't actually think we've seen a growth in his character since S2 maybe. That argument would be easier to accept if they didn't add pointless filler that does nothing. Greysandei, brothel scenes, Yara at the Dreadfort, Craster's Keep, Gilly's sexual assault, Jaime and Bronn vs SS, Brienne filler (hey, I thought they were supposed to cut this boring stuff)... They could have devoted time to these important plots, they just wasted it. Also, their budget allocation seems way off to me. Those fancy european shots, 600 face models, multiple dragon sequences... They just seem wasteful.

The problem with Sansa's arc is that she's just gone back to square one. It's after Ned died all over again. Essentially, 1) Sansa is a hostage, 2) Sansa's jailer is abusive, 3) Sansa's jailer shows her something unpleasant (Ned's head or flayed woman), 4) Sansa acts stupid (seriously, telling Theon about your only escape was dumb, not to mention calling Ramsey a bastard). Her character hasn't grown at all, it's actually reverted. That's the problem with shoehorning her into this story. Also, her being there makes no sense; LF is risking her life without cause and she is an incredibly valuable piece to risk. I don't know if her Vale stuff would be more interesting, but it must be better than what we have currently. The other problem is that the show-writers' decision to make Sansa the focus takes away from the best chapters of all the books: Reek in Winterfell. That arc had everything: mystery, intrigue, character growth, great characters, some reader-revenge, killer lines... But by removing the Northern Lords and Freys, we lose most of this. No Manderly means no Frey pies. There's no mystery killer, offing soldiers in the snow. They decided to omit Roose's best line, and I'm hoping they don't leave out some other great ones. I know 'the show is not the books, there's going to be differences, show can't do everything the books can etc.' and I understand and accept that. But it's such a wasted opportunity. Having Sansa be the victim here in place of Jeyne Poole/Fake Arya also takes away from Theon's development as well (by the way, Theon is actually forced to take part in the book version of the bedding, so both are raped). By making it Sansa, somebody Theon knows well and will have a natural impulse to help, instead of someone Theon barely knew means that if he helps her, it will matter less. All those Northern Lords cared about Ramsey hurting Arya Stark, but Theon cared about him hurting a stranger. Dorne was laughable. That entire plot of Bronn getting poisoned was just an excuse to see the actress' breasts. Jaime and Myrcella was like some stupid teen romance film. How anyone can even imagine that this stuff is better than the book version baffles me. I'd find Melisandre easier to take seriously if BALON GREYJOY wasn't still walking about (remember him, D&D?). Also, Stannis reacted to that news like he had mild indigestion. The Faith Militant has no grey in it whatsoever. They're basically ISIS. Tyrion and Jorah not being given full-body inspections is ridiculous. Jorah especially. He's going to be a pit fighter; a buyer would want to ensure that Jorah is in good health. Also the massive amount of coincidence necessary to get them to meet Dany was eyeroll worthy, but at least they're there. Very confused as to what LF's gift to Olenna actually was. Lancel? That doesn't seem to make much sense. Gilly almost being raped is troubling, especially since afterwards she then has sex with Sam immediately. Also, Jon just left Ghost at the Wall? Why? That's all I can think to say about it really. Disappointing.

The argument that D&D are cutting out all the filler would be easier to take if they stopped adding brand new filler to replace it. Craster's Keep, Yara at the Dreadfort, Grissandei, nearly every brothel scene, more Brienne filler than the actual books (without the character and world building that those chapters include)... All filler. And they decided to change Reek's stuff, which was some of the stuff that definitely didn't need changing. They decided to shoe-horn in Sansa's stuff, and so far it's done nothing for either character. But of course, posters just tell me that Show LF is supposed to be stupid. Because his plan certainly is. Talysa.... God, I remember watching that episode (I hadn't even read ACoK at that point) and rolling my eyes at how obvious it was that she and Robb would fall in love and at how ridiculous her character was.

A 6/10. Not too bad. I like that they concentrate on specific areas per episode, helps keep tension in the scenes. Still, it doesn't show passage of time very well when a scene happens immediately after another, such as when a raven is sent and received in the next scene. Winterfell was pretty good, barring: the Myranda/Ramsey scene (which was well-acted, but noone cares about Myranda's motivations), Sansa's apparent return to stupidity (seriously, eye rolling, refusing toasts and trusting a random stranger?) and the cutting of a great line. Can somebody kill Olly Chekhov please? Seriously, he's annoying and adds nothing. Brienne's scene was a bit silly. She trusts that guy far too quickly. Liked the Sam stuff, though who sent that raven is anyone's guess. 'Kill the Boy' felt a bit rushed and fell kind of flat. Stannis is gold. Dany murdering that guy was... weird. I don't even like the book character, but that did feel very not-Dany (though admittedly she does something just as terrible in-books). Sadly, Hizdahr is becoming the most sympathetic character in SB. Not good. Grissandei needs to go. Sorry, but it's cheesy, uninspired and adds nothing. Valyria might have looked quite good, were it not for the fact that they describe the Doom as a cataclysmic event that annihilated an entire civilization, whereas Valyria just looked a bit misty and in need of a tidy. And of course, if people stopped sending Stone Men there. Also, if your characters are on a sea, try and make it look like they're on a sea. The ending was a bit TWD and not in a good way. Very obvious.

I just realized how confusing Tyrion's motivations are. Why is he agreeing to work against Tommen? By making Tyrion such a 'good' character and by removing the Tysha subplot, I just don't believe that he is prepared to harm Jaime's son. I know he hates Cersei, but he hates her so much that he's prepared to potentially aid in the death of Tommen? Don't buy it.

If Illyrio had Dany in mind, why marry her to Drogo? Who in Westeros would accept a Dothraki King? I can think of no quicker way to turn potential Targ supporters against her than by telling them that their future King will be a leader of a murpillaping gang of slavers. Even the Dornish might go 'yeah, uh, no.' And it stands to reason that Varys and Illyrio wanted war. If you're going to invade Westeros, you're going to need Westeros fighting itself or they'll crush you. The Dothraki would be annihilated by a united Westeros. Hell, even a semi-united one would do it. And if their motive was basically replacing Robert because he was a poor King, surely you need a good replacement? Neither Viserys nor Danaerys, at the beginning of the series, look to me as promising alternatives.

You're forgetting the first season, where he met with Illyrio in KL and they discussed their plans. They mentioned that the Starks and Lannisters would soon be at war, and that it was 'too soon'. They clearly intended a war. And I fail to see how an army of raping slavers entering Westeros is any better than Robert or his ilk. Varys could have just offed Joffrey or whoever. Hell, he could have offed any number of people in KL and it still would have been a better plan than invading with Dothraki. Also, once Illyrio spent, say, 5 minutes in Viserys' company, shouldn't he have thought 'hmmm, let's not make this guy King, he's clearly a lunatic like his father.' How would mad Viserys be better than Robert?

No. This is not why people are upset. Many of us care far more about the journey there being satisfying. Again, why can't show-watchers accept that the show is flawed and it doesn't make us snobby book-readers for criticising it?

Well, as an example, how does Varys' decision to marry Danaerys to Drogo and have the Dothraki invade the 7 Kingdoms make sense now that there is no Aegon plotline? How does setting the various Lords of Westeros against eachother and then unleashing an army of raping, murdering slavers serve 'the realm' exactly?

Well, admittedly, I would rather have the show's end than no end at all. But I am in no way convinced that the show's end is going to be better than the books'. I just don't think that D&D are good writers. And I don't think that this season has proven better, thus far, than the source material.

Look, I'm grateful for the show. It brought me, and many others, to the books. It also was, for a good while, real quality TV. And I love the show. And that's why I criticise it. Because it can be so much better. And the show finishing first means diddly squat.

Yeah, it couldn't be because people have legitimate criticisms of the show, could it? *rolls eyes* Ugh. The show has flaws. Why are certain show-watchers incapable of admitting that? The books have flaws, so does the show. Here's a brief list: - An enormous amount of brothel scenes that add nothing to the show and are just there to show some tits - Lack of logic and consistency within the show's universe. Maybe you don't expect such things from TV, but some of us do - Changing characters significantly, but still having the same events happen as in the books. Varys' motivations make no sense without the inclusion of Aegon. For some reason, some of us find it baffling that a man who cares so much for stability would try to set up a Dothraki invasion (because that's how you make a secure Westeros yeah!) - Piss-poor military writing - They streamlined three characters to make Loras Tyrell and yet he has less character than any one of them - They add pointless filler, like Grissandei and Craster's Keep. Which makes it hard to take seriously the claim that they're streamlining Those are just off the top of my head.

BatFinger's plan is stupid. It puts Sansa in an extraordinary amount of danger that is unnecessary. If BatFinger wants Sansa to ally with whoever comes out on top between Stannis and the Boltons, why not wait in the Vale until one of them wins and, voila. Send her to the winner and he achieves the same without putting her in danger from the Boltons or the inevitable battle. That doesn't require a 'smart' character. A character of average intelligence could work that out. But everyone in-show ignores it because BatFinger is meant to be seen as an intelligent character. And the bolded would have more weight if the show didn't insert it's own pointless filler all the time. Grissandei? Craster's Keep? Brienne the Hulk fighting Knights of the Vale? Pretty much every brothel scene ever shown in the show? Ramsey and Myranda?

How anyone can claim that Sansa in Winterfell is good writing is beyond me... I mean, ignoring the ridiculousness of BatFinger's plan, has Sansa been taking stupid pills? Shouldn't she be acting charming and confident, a bit like Margaery? Instead, she's sulking and refusing toasts. If they're going to go with this 'make him yours' approach shouldn't she actually be doing that? Like, she should be making the toasts, playing nice with Ramsey and Roose and Walda, being suspicious of a random old lady who claims she's on her side. Just a 'thank you Lord Bolton, or should I call you Father?' and a smile. Or a 'It does feel a little strange to be back in Winterfell, Lady Walda, but I'm sure with a little time it will feel like home again.' I mean, I despise that they're supposedly playing it this way, but they could at least do it properly. Oh, and Sansa might appear smarter if she doesn't just walk down a dark kennel because some random girl told her to. The show can't just say 'Sansa's getting/gotten smarter' and not show that. And if they make Sansa have sex with Ramsey and try to pass it off as empowering, I will stop watching. This all just feels like an excuse to show Sophie Turner naked. Also, Brienne just trusts any Tom, Dick or Harry in this show doesn't she? It's like 'hey, random man who I just met and have spoken to for 20 seconds, could you perform a highly dangerous mission for me? Thanks. I know you won't inform Lord Bolton, because the plot demands it.' Speaking of Boltons... Roose's speech to Ramsey at the end fell a bit flat. Maybe, I don't know, an iconic line might have helped there? Knowing D&D though, it will become 'don't make me lament the hour when I took your mother without consent.' Tyrion seeing the dragon was nice, as was that poem(?) about Valyria. It's just a shame that Valyria looked like it actually might be quite nice, if they did it up a bit. And if people stopped sending people with Greyscale there. The actress who plays Myranda needs a good, long... sandwich. Actually, about 30 of them. That whole scene I was just watching her hip bone. No wonder she's so blasé around Ramsey; she can just stab him at any time with it. Stannis is quickly becoming the best thing about the show. I'm loving grammar Nazi Stannis. Grissandei... I don't hate it. In fact, in another story, it might prove interesting. Exploring the themes of love and affection between a man and a woman without sex? I'm down for that. But not here. Just cut it out please. It's filler. And I know people like to claim that D&D are essentially giving the last two books the edit they need, but that's hard to even remotely agree with when they keep adding their own filler. So Dany is going to rape Hizdahr? I mean, he wasn't given a choice. And I know that the show won't portray it that way, but it will be rape. Also, the show is actually making me root for Hizdahr. I mean, Dany comes into the city and: kills his father, refuses to allow his father to be buried until he begs her, arrests him and kills someone he knows without trial or evidence of guilt, and then forces him to marry her. Not going to lie, I kind of hope he sticks a knife into her.

Wow that fight scene at the end was dumb. 8-10 Unsullied in a tight, long corridor essentially, with spears and shields, vs a bunch of knife wielding guys in robes. Why didn't they just stand in two lines, back-to-back, and use their spears to keep the enemy at bay? Because D&D needed some shock factor.

Gave it a 7. Better than the first two, but it still had flaws. One of the big problems this season is that many scenes work fine or even well on their own, but don't work in terms of the overall narrative. I'm dreading where they'll take the Sansa stuff; if they substitute Jeyne Poole with her completely (i.e. the rape and abuse) I think I may stop watching the show. It would completely destroy Sansa's character building. The Wall stuff was good, but it is both baffling and infuriating that they removed 'Edd, fetch me a block'. Why did they do this? Show watchers aren't stupid. If they didn't know what a block was, I'm sure they'd figure it out pretty quickly. And if they didn't remember who Edd is, well, just flash the camera on him after Jon gives the order. Really, it is not difficult. Also, has everyone at the Wall forgotten about the Others and the army of the dead? News travels at ridiculous speeds. Maisie Williams acted the shit out of the Needle scene. She's one of my favourite actors in the show, partially because she cares enough to actually understand the character she is playing. I am incredibly disappointed to find out that D&D think Needle signifies revenge though. Did they even read the books? Finally Brienne's not being a bullying arsehole! And she shows some weakness. Huzzah! Book LF would have killed Show LF by now due to his stupidity. Also, are we really getting the 'jealous ex-gf' thing from Ramsey's ex? Please God no. Why was Marg being so unnecessarily hostile to Cersei? Is she trying to get herself into trouble? Well-acted, and enjoyable, but seems dumb on Marg's part. Are we meant to be siding with Cersei here? Because while I think Show Cersei is a better character than Book Cersei, she's still meant to be a villain, surely? Also, the sex with Tommen made me very uncomfortable. High Septon scene was funny. I've given up on criticising the show for pointless female nudity, but did we really need the long gratuitous shot of the prostitute's pubic hair? Jonathon Pryce seems great as the High Sparrow, but it's going to be a bit weird when he later goes all ISIS. Overall, pretty good, but lots of room for improvement.