Jump to content

Voice

Members
  • Content count

    3,858
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Voice

  1. Voice

    Bumping for Benjen Vol. VII

    Shame on you all. How could you remain silent whilst your uncle roams the north, seeking a way home? Bump, so that he may hear!
  2. Voice

    Heresy 220 and the nature of magic

    100% Correct. The Wall blocks wargs, not the blue-eyed lot. A Song of Vaginal Warg-Blocking
  3. In asoiaf, weirwood influences seem far less widespread than they are in some of GRRM's other tales (see A Song for Lya or And Seven Times Never Kill Man!). In this series, weirwood influences are far more subtle, and far more selective. Rather than inhabit/control the conscious minds of every sentient being in proximity, in Westeros a weirwood might only indirectly influence the subconscious. Direct weirwood-influence comes, in asoiaf, only after one with the gift weds the trees. And "one with the gift" is astoundingly rare: - ADWD, Bran III That provides us with some easy math. Skinchanger:Population 1:1000 = 0.1% of men are skinchangers. Greenseer:Skinchanger-Population 1:1000 = 0.1% of skinchangers are greenseers. Thus, if we apply these proportions to how many men can be greenseers, we get: Greenseer:Population 1:1,000,000 = 0.0001 % of men are greenseers. That's one ten-thousandth of one percent of the population who are greenseers! [side note: this ratio may mean that the population of Westeros is between 1 and 2 million people, as it currently yields between 1 and 2 greenseers] So why did I do this math? In GRRM's other tales (listed above), such influence is far, far stronger. For example: That is a far more potent ratio of influence than we see in asoiaf. Except for one glaring exception.... We have a GINORMOUS concentration of this influence in the current generation of youngsters from Winterfell. According to GRRM, 6/6 are wargs, although their "amount of control varies widely". Still, a 6/6 concentration of warghood ain't bad. Of the six, at least one is a bona fide greenseer. Considering the scarcity of the gift that Bloodraven described, that's pretty damned impressive. Considering only two Starks in the previous generation were even said to have had "the wolf-blood," this certainly seems to suggest something occurred in the current generation to increase this concentration. Enter the wolf pups. It seems as though 100% of the Kings of Winter were also wargs, unless people were lying when sculpting all those dead Starks with direwolves at their feet. As it happens, I don't think those stonemasons were lying... at least, not until 200 years ago. So, crackpot alert, I'm thinking Starks once had a far greater concentration of weirwood influence than other First Men families. I have a hunch that their Godswood was always and ever inhabited by a Stark Greenseer. And, I think that this is what the "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" mantra is all about. To crack the pot further, I think Lyanna was the last Stark with the gift expressed in her blood, and, that it was incredibly strong. As in 1:1,000,000 kinda strong. (See A Song for Lya) I don't think Lyanna lived long enough to take root beneath WF's godswood, but I do think she was able to send the kids those direwolf pups. (I believe the dead mother wolf in Bran I AGOT was hers... in spirit, if not in life.) This is the reason she used her final breaths to get Ned's promise to bury her in Winterfell's crypts (which are under Winterfell's Godswood and Heart Tree). And, just to make sure this pot is thoroughly pounded back into clay, I believe it is Lyanna's consciousness that is beckoning Jon deeper and deeper into crypts in his dreams... Not Ned. Not the weirnet. Not the Others. Not the cotf... It's his mom. Lyanna sent her bastard the Ghost pup, because Jon is the Weirwood Ghost. I have offered the alternative crackpot before that Lyanna is, like Bloodraven, residing in the roots of WF's heart tree... but I don't want to see her like that, and I don't think any of you want to either. TL;DR: So, I've whittled this theory down to the essentials: 1. Lyanna's consciousness connected to Winterfell's heart tree as its roots reached her crypt, as it had always reached all Starks. 2. The mother direwolf in Bran I AGOT was Lyanna's, and she sent it to reactivate A Gift from the Old Gods. (Ghost is the proof.) 3. This reactivated the gift in its entirety for the entire current generation of youngsters who carry the blood of Winterfell. (One might even be able to make a case for Theon also being influenced by this gift, but I'll save that for another day.) And, this explains why they exhibit A Gift from Old Gods so completely and absolutely, while, for the rest of Westeros, the gift emerges in but 0.1% to 0.001% of the population (in Essos, I would argue the ratio of the population bearing A Gift from the Old Gods is zero percent). Thanks for reading! I look forward to the conversation! Original Thread: http://thelasthearth.com/thread/1440/lyanna-stark-gift-old-gods
  4. Voice

    Lyanna Stark: A Gift from Old Gods

    In that case, I eagerly await his menstruation bloody bed.
  5. Voice

    Lyanna Stark: A Gift from Old Gods

    A very conventional analysis. Mayhaps one day you will invent a round disc that will fit this heavy barrow of mine. Seriously though, westeros.org is missing out if they don't start marketing these sorts of insights on rubber stamps. Jon = Blue Flower, in particular, would be perfect for stamps and stencils, coloring books, flash cards, stuffed toys...
  6. Voice

    Bumping for Benjen Vol. VII

    Bumps heard as a lean grey wolf buries dragonglass north of the Nightfort.
  7. Voice

    Jon Snow

    Preach. The weirnet has many eyes – not just the ones carved on trees. Yup. I would only add that both Weirwoods and Ravens are nourished by blood and death. They are not only symbiotic, their dietary motivations are in perfect harmony. The damned Others, of course, undo death and hoard away that source of nutrition.
  8. Voice

    Who will Sansa marry?

    Sansa will decide she does not have to marry once she finds her blossoming physical desires are completely satisfied by Val. Rickon will return to claim Winterfell.
  9. Voice

    Lyanna Stark: A Gift from Old Gods

    LOL! Love your avatar pic.
  10. Voice

    Bumping for Benjen Vol. VII

    BUMP! I heard Benjen is boycotting the next season of Game of Thrones in hopes that a canonically accurate anime adaptation will replace it.
  11. Welcome to the dark side. These Starks are not like other men, who trembled and froze and remember their origin as "the Long Night".
  12. Now THAT is a name! I'm already a fan, @Weirwood Ghost.
  13. Voice

    Bumping for Benjen Vol. VII

    I have tickets to the real Ricky Gervais next month. Looking forward to it. Bastards Understand Moody People
  14. It's canon I tell you! A descendant of Brandon the Builder (aka, the Night's King) does not simply disarm the wielder of Dawn without wintery consequences.
  15. Voice

    Bumping for Benjen Vol. VII

    Benjen Understands My Problem
  16. Voice

    Bumping for Benjen Vol. VII

    I'm so sorry to hear that LB! I hope you live in a state with medical mj. And if you ever need an additional escape from reality, the Hearth is always open.
  17. Voice

    Bumping for Benjen Vol. VII

    Ah, I see. Do explain. well said. Very interesting. And I can't help but wonder, which came first? The Bump, or the Benjen? Great argument. It was definitely the bump.
  18. Voice

    Lyanna Stark: A Gift from Old Gods

    It was you, not I, who brought up that specific usage: My point was/is as follows: The blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice sounds, to me, like an out-of-place bloom amid winter. I think this is analogous to the False Spring, which of course was a temporary chink in a season of winter. It was winter before the False Spring, and it was winter after the False Spring. The wall is ice on both sides of the chink created by the blue flower... Thus, I can't help but ponder whether Lyanna's blooming as a child-woman might have caused a temporary chink in an otherwise ongoing winter season. Sansa's bed of blood, while not called, specifically "a bed of blood" nor "a bloody bed" is still, obviously, a bloody bed and a bed of blood. Once she shoves it in the fireplace, it became a bed of fire and blood. Or, at least, an ashy bloody bed. If Dany had seen a smouldering blue flower dripping blood, I might be arguing that she glimpsed Sansa's flowering in the House of the Undying. But she didn't. She sees a flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice. So I think Dany bears witness to a cold womb. That could be Lyanna's, or it could be another dead woman/child-woman. Pertinent to this OP, I think a valid argument can be made for it being Lyanna's flowering. She is dead, and may have ushered a pregnant she-wolf through the Wall. After all, that dead mother in Bran I AGOT was spectacular because its like had not been seen south of the Wall in 200 years. Dany might have seen the mechanism by which that spectacle was possible. The purpose of this OP is to draw attention to Lyanna as the source of this reintroduction of direwolves to the Wolfswood and the pups of Winterfell. Off of this topic, I would nominate the Night's Queen as the fertile womb envisioned as the blue flower growing from the chink in Dany's wall of ice. But even then, I would say that Lyanna is the descendant of NQ's husband anyway, if not NK+NQ, and argue that Lyanna is the most likely candidate for the person who broke House Stark's 200-year direwolf drought anyway.
  19. Voice

    Lyanna Stark: A Gift from Old Gods

    That night Sansa dreamed of the riot again. The mob surged around her, shrieking, a maddened beast with a thousand faces. Everywhere she turned she saw faces twisted into monstrous inhuman masks. She wept and told them she had never done them hurt, yet they dragged her from her horse all the same. "No," she cried, "no, please, don't, don't," but no one paid her any heed. She shouted for Ser Dontos, for her brothers, for her dead father and her dead wolf, for gallant Ser Loras who had given her a red rose once, but none of them came. She called for the heroes from the songs, for Florian and Ser Ryam Redwyne and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, but no one heard. Women swarmed over her like weasels, pinching her legs and kicking her in the belly, and someone hit her in the face and she felt her teeth shatter. Then she saw the bright glimmer of steel. The knife plunged into her belly and tore and tore and tore, until there was nothing left of her down there but shiny wet ribbons. When she woke, the pale light of morning was slanting through her window, yet she felt as sick and achy as if she had not slept at all. There was something sticky on her thighs. When she threw back the blanket and saw the blood, all she could think was that her dream had somehow come true. She remembered the knives inside her, twisting and ripping. She squirmed away in horror, kicking at the sheets and falling to the floor, breathing raggedly, naked, bloodied, and afraid. But as she crouched there, on her hands and knees, understanding came. "No, please," Sansa whimpered, "please, no." She didn't want this happening to her, not now, not here, not now, not now, not now, not now. Madness took hold of her. Pulling herself up by the bedpost, she went to the basin and washed between her legs, scrubbing away all the stickiness. By the time she was done, the water was pink with blood. When her maidservants saw it they would know. Then she remembered the bedclothes. She rushed back to the bed and stared in horror at the dark red stain and the tale it told. All she could think was that she had to get rid of it, or else they'd see. She couldn't let them see, or they'd marry her to Joffrey and make her lay with him. Snatching up her knife, Sansa hacked at the sheet, cutting out the stain. If they ask me about the hole, what will I say? Tears ran down her face. She pulled the torn sheet from the bed, and the stained blanket as well. I'll have to burn them. She balled up the evidence, stuffed it in the fireplace, drenched it in oil from her bedside lamp, and lit it afire. Then she realized that the blood had soaked through the sheet into the featherbed, so she bundled that up as well, but it was big and cumbersome, hard to move. Sansa could get only half of it into the fire. She was on her knees, struggling to shove the mattress into the flames as thick grey smoke eddied around her and filled the room, when the door burst open and she heard her maid gasp. In the end it took three of them to pull her away. And it was all for nothing. The bedclothes were burnt, but by the time they carried her off her thighs were bloody again. It was as if her own body had betrayed her to Joffrey, unfurling a banner of Lannister crimson for all the world to see.
  20. Voice

    Lyanna Stark: A Gift from Old Gods

    I was speaking more to substance, than intelligence. Dany is attracted to aggressive, power-hungry men who are willing to kill their colleagues. Daario is but the latest such mate. He was not the first. Jon stands in stark contrast to that sort of man. Rather than sacrifice his brothers, he's put himself in harm's way for the greater good. That's Quentyn Martell, and we saw how attracted Dany was to Quent. And yes, Dany is quite honest with herself. And she's willing to sleep with bad men. I'm glad she is, as it makes her far more interesting a character, but I think we're barking up the wrong tree if we think she'll be attracted to Jon. Flowers=Womanhood in asoiaf. Post-pubescent men are "men grown," post-pubescent women are "women flowered." A blue flower, growing from a chink in a wall of ice, tells me that Lyanna's flowering caused a crack in Winter. So I would place her first bed of blood in the Year of the False Spring. Barristan believes that Rhaegar loved Lyanna, but he confesses he did not know Rhaegar very well. Still, that remains quite plausible. The idea that Lyanna loved Rhaegar, or would even find him attractive, is far more difficult to demonstrate. The text tells us that Lyanna was more like Arya, who did not swoon for princes – let alone married princes. And even Sansa did not swoon for Joffrey after the execution of her father. We also know that Lyanna did not look kindly upon men who kept more than one bed, and sired bastards within them. So while I can see why Barristan might believe Rhaegar loved Lyanna, as it fits with a pro-dragon POV reconciling the narrative that Rhaegar abducted Lyanna (which we still do not know actually happened), it is far more difficult for me to see why/how Lyanna would love Rhaegar. To the point of this OP, I think the blue flower+crack represent the way Lyanna's presence was able to break the barrier that had kept direwolves from Winterfell for 200 years.
  21. Voice

    Lyanna Stark: A Gift from Old Gods

    GRRM's writing is heavily influenced by his knowledge of mythology, philosophy, and science. And, once you've read his non-asoiaf works, you can really appreciate how much he incorporates and blends them together. I hope you'll join the Hearth and contribute to the discourse and debate! But yeah, I would call GRRM's style something like Environmental Nietzscheism, or Nietzsche-Environmentalism. It is extremely well-informed, and original even in its imitation of esoteric tropes. It is also extremely nihilistic in its treatment of humanity, but does seem to have hope/respect for nature itself and the evolution of the species. Mayhaps. Jon really cared for Ygritte, but she was never his wife. Jon's wife has always been Duty. Jon's mistress has always been Honor. Dany wants pretty men with very little between the ears. She is not attracted to selflessness. And, once she comes to Westeros, I have a feeling her child-eating dragons will make her seem less like the naive young girl she pretends to be. Opposites can attract though, so who knows? I can't say I think Jon will want Dany, and I can't say Dany will want Jon. Thus far, their love interests have seemed to point in very different directions. And, this is GRRM we're talking about. He's about as likely to write a happily-ever-after love story as Stephen King.
  22. Voice

    Lyanna Stark: A Gift from Old Gods

    Exactly. And thanks for the search suggestion. After only a few generations of continual marriage alliances within a closed gene pool, the amount of genetic diversity would diminish greatly. After a few centuries, as we find in the examples you provide, this genetic diversity would shrink to the point that a nobleman marrying a very distant cousin creates the same genetic mating as a common man marrying his sister. In Westeros, this practice has gone on for thousands and thousands of years! That means that noble men and women in Westeros are an EXTREMELY pure breed – like a Maltese. But selectively bred to fellow Maltese cousins for four thousand years longer than the dog breed. I truly didn't even know this sort of thing was a matter of debate. And I certainly didn't mean for this OP to bring it up. I wouldn't hold it against fictional Starks if they had things/flings with their cousins or siblings. What is of far more interest to me, is that Lyanna Stark had the wolf blood – like Arya. Lyanna died in a bed of blood, which thankfully, Arya has not. But, if Arya (hypothetically) did eventually become pregnant in Braavos, and die in a bed of blood... what might we expect if Nymeria, separated by space and time on the other side of the Narrow sea, became pregnant with a litter of wolf pups. Now imagine, if Arya had died in her bed of blood in Braavos, and her child just happened to be wandering around the Riverlands in time to find Nymeria's pups, what sort of bond that might imply. There might be pups for Arya's nephews and nieces as well. That would be a kind gesture of loyalty to her house. But what of the pup intended for Arya's own son? Might it be special? Might that wolf serve to anchor her son to her in a way that the other pups do not? I think so. While Summer and Nymeria and Shaggy Dog are great and all, there was something that intended for Jon to have a puppy. A strong, silent voice. Halfway across the bridge, Jon pulled up suddenly. "What is it, Jon?" their lord father asked. "Can't you hear it?" Bran could hear the wind in the trees, the clatter of their hooves on the ironwood planks, the whimpering of his hungry pup, but Jon was listening to something else. A strong, silent voice, coming from the direction of a dead she-wolf in a bed of blood. Regardless of whether it was Ghost's own silent howl, or Lyanna's from beyond the grave, I think the fact that Jon is able to hear the weir-frequency is Lyanna's gift.
  23. Voice

    Lyanna Stark: A Gift from Old Gods

    LOL! yes totally. Completely agree.
×