Green Knight

As far as D&D said at the NYC premiere of GoT, there will be eight seasons. And I agree. At this stage, the show is all over the place, so God knows what may happen. As I said, we can be only certain that Tyrion arc will remain central as long as possible.

A HA HA HAAAA!!!

"And you agree"? Wow! I bet D&D are relieved to hear it! Ha HAAAAAA!! :D

You should read his TF. This isn't a big star promoting himself. He's far from an extra. He had to learn the Low Valyrian lines.

Book readers were anticipating this scene big time. It's difficult to nail a scene that book readers want to see done right but he disappointed no one. Even you aren't bashing his performance.

Even actors are real people.

You seem unhappy in general which is no way to live.

Rmholt,

I agree with you on all counts. That actor did a great job. The scene was heart wrenching. This show is damned if it does and damned if it doesnt.

Good post. I don't have any problems with changes but I feel this season in particular (and Dany's arc in S2) made a lot of changes that had little to no logic behind them. "Only Cat" and Stoneheart being removed didn't bother me but the Craster's arc added nothing but a fight scene and another reunion tease. The only thing that came from it was John spitting in Styr's face. The change to have both CB battles at once was logical and worked brilliantly IMO. Asha attacking the Dreadfort did not. My problem is that they expend time and budget on stories that amount to nothing/very little and then use their lack of time/budget to justify leaving out other storylines.

My nitpicks this season:

Locke's kidnapping Bran (like you said) and the whole Craster's arc.

Beetle convo and generally wasting Tyrion's cell time instead of using it to reintroduce Tysha or give some Tywin backstory.

No Kevan

Brienne vs Hound felt extremely unnecessary.

Rorge and Biter - I mean, Biter just jumps on Sandor and gets his neck snapped while Rorge stands around waiting for Arya to kill him.

Stannis being so passive at the IB.

How anticlimatically Dany takes Mereen. We could have had a proper siege in place of Dreadfort and Craster's battles.

Baelish revealing how he planned the deaths of Joffrey of Jon Arryn so early in the season (not a major nitpick but I feel it would have added a lot of weight to his final scene with Lysa)

Arya and Sandor telling almost everyone who they are but not the farmer.

Emilia Clarke's "acting abilities" (I know they can't recast her at this point but still...)

Jon still not warging. I don't care so much about Arya's wolf dreams being cut but Jon being a warg seems quite important.

I fully agree. Apart from Cersei's chapters, I really didn't enjoy Feast. Brienne is by far the worst PoV since Cat IMO.

There is one way that the show can compete with the book story and come out on top. Cut out all the fat that Martin wrote into the story and they'll really have something. Start with Tyrion, Brienne and Sam who all spend an inordinate amount of time wondering endlessly about. Hopefully they'll just cut to the chase.

I also agree that Pedro Pascall's performance as Oberyn was nothing short of spectacular. In the book, I never gave an avian rodent's fuzzy back-side about Oberyn. On the show, he made me love the guy. He took over every scene like a boss. My hat is off to the man. Too bad he had to go.

How condescending. I understand very well what nitpicking is. And it CAN be legitimate criticism if it really does affect the storyline of the show. However, again...being different from the books is not in and of itself a problem. The show is and always was going to be different. It was never going to be 100% the same, and anyone who was expecting that has their expectations set incorrectly.

Nitpick the show on the mistakes it makes concerning the story and plot it's telling. Nitpick the books on the mistakes it makes concerning the story and plot IT'S telling. But they are not, and never will be, the same thing.

-And my nitpicks of the show this season include:

Molestown slaughtered for no discernible reason

Locke's ill-thought out plan to kill Bran Stark and his anticlimatic death

The sheer amount of time we spend in Tyrion's cell- characterization is fine, but we seriously spend more time there than we do with about half of the characters

-My nitpicks of the book it followed this season:

Mance's terrible, terrible battle strategies against a small group of old and crippled NWmen when he had 100k men at his disposal

Jon being put in command when he just returned from desertion, is seriously injured and 17 years old

Coldhands, the elk-riding deus ex machina

I may be a 'show defender' simply because I like the show and think that people here are too harsh on it, but it doesn't mean I like everything about the show. I also enjoy the books, but don't like everything about them, either, so I don't know what category you would want to put me in. Really, I just like to think of myself as someone who can separate the two and criticize them fairly as two separate entities. If that makes me a show apologist or defender, so be it. But I would defend the books to the same extent as the show if I felt people were being unfairly harsh on them, so I'm an equal-opportunity apologist and critic.

I think we are peas in a pod. That is the point I've been trying to make all along. They are two SEPERATE stories. Criticize away on each individual story's merit. There are things I like about the show and things I dont like. The book story is far better. It has finite detail and intricacies that could never effectively be presented on screen. But the book story is far from perfect as well.

Imho AFFC was awful. I can't take the endless journeying everybody seems to be doing without ever reaching any sort of satisfying conclusion. It is a snore fest. Dance of D's wasn't as bad but not nearly as good as the first three either. I'm hoping the next one will pick up the original vibe again.

Green Knight, I believe I have answered that but I'll repeat myself. I watch to explain the things that don't make sense (because the show is extremely bad at narrative) to my family and just a sliver of false hope that it will get better. It doesn't.

The general show-defending sentiment definitely seems to be that the show is perfect, using the guise of "books are a different medium, other people and critics like it!" What I'm sick of is show defenders acting like there aren't legitimate criticisms of the show.

here's one guy's take. (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/no-right-answer/8994-Is-Game-of-Thrones-Overrated) I don't necessarily agree with him, but it's not just book fans that don't like the show.

LordStoneheart,

I don't have a problem with legitimate criticisms. It the endless nitpicking when something differs from the book story that get me. It's the over the top, mean spirited, disrespect and vitriolic nature of the posts that some of these people make towards the show's producers.

Seriously, if they are that unhappy, why bother watching? I think it's just what I said before. Children who can't get their way throwing a fit. . .

I think it's impossible to actually hate the show. I mean, the actors are great, the settings are even better. For me, it's sometimes hard to see characters behaving differently from what they're "supposed" to do and it's not so easy to see how arcs D&D created differently from the novels, will end up or lead up to superior happenings. But in the end it works just fine. I guess it's difficult for readers to accept that there has to be left out some important stuff for the show to work. You cannot put every detail Martin created in a show. But it the end it's sums up perfectly.

Agree totally. I'm just happy to have a nice adaptation of my favorite books brought to life. Even if it is a bit different. I can still read the books and get the story as the author intended.

But, you heard our wisemen of the thread. The show is great, great, great. How dare you criticize it! Charles and Maisie looked so so great together. It was awesome. And you are nitpicking there. Who needs logic?The show is dealing with a magical world. Anything can happen. That's the appeal. The one thing that cannot happen is sticking to the books. That would be so predictable. Why would bookreaders watch the show then? There would be no surprises. This way they are constantly surprised. Mostly unpleasently, but who cares. Ratings are great. That's all that matters. If those nitpicking books' readers are unhappy, they can stop watching and wait for book no.6, sad bastards that they are. Meanwhile, show lovers will enjoy the show's sheer awesomeness. Yeah. D&D rock. They are so awesome. GRRM who?

No one is saying the show is perfect. That is a specious retort you guys continue to throw out there whenever anyone defends the show. The show is DIFFERENT from the book! It will continue to be different from the book no matter how much you people stomp and winge. Get over it...

The one thing you show haters have yet to answer is why do you continue to watch? There are shows that I don't like so I simply don't watch them. I don't go to fan forums and endlessly crticize them.

My question is why people think "Only Cat" is important in the first place.

This^

Some folks are claiming it's not because the changes then going on and on about something as small as the location of the privy or single lines like "Only Cat." Reminds me of petulant children stomping and holding their breath when they don't get their way.

Saying it's why they made the change that bothers you as opposed to the change itself makes no difference. It is still just whining about the same thing. Just read the damn story and quit watching the show if it pisses you off so much. It musn't be too bad though if you're still watching.

By the way, speaking of changes that upset people. There are some I like and some I don't. (There is at least one that I hope they make permanent but I won't get into it for the sake of our unsullied friends). Others I wish they had kept.

For example, I didn't like the scene in the kennels with Yara/Asha either. How the hell did they get out of there?!? But I dont let stuff like that ruin my enjoyment of what is basically a great show.

A lot of characters have been tweaked to be either more detestable or more likeable, but I still find Catelyn Stark to be one of the most detestable characters in the story - book or screen version. I welcome anyone who disagrees with me to read the exchange between her and Jon Snow at the begining of the series. The one when Jon visits Bran on his sick bed to say good-bye to him before he leaves for the NW.

There is much more I don't like about her as the story progresses, but that exchange pretty much cemented my dislike for her right from the get-go. I can't stand her. . .

[spoiler\] No Val, Dalla, Baby, or Stoneheart. I understand the logistical reason the tv story must veer off the book, maybe in the long term the choices will make sense, but I am sad to see these omissions. Perhaps they will turn up next season. [\spoiler]

Also....John snow needs to be with Ghost more often. That needs to be fixed next season.

Laments from book fans like this I understand. I am primarily a book reader and for me the real story is the book version.

However, what I don't undertsand is the incessant whining, wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth from some folks around here about how the show isn't true to the books. What a terrible job D&D are doing - that one strikes me as really funny by the way. Just look at the ratings - and lastly the constant nit-picking about every little detail. I wonder how many shows these people have directed/produced? I'd bet the answer is zero.

If these changes bother you so much why watch the show? Bottom line is that when and if Martin decides to release his next book, you'll still be able to read the story to your heart's content. What the hell difference does it make if the show strays? You can still read the story as GRRM intended it. No one is making you choose one over the other.

Seems like a no brainer to me. . .

I loved nearly everthing about this episode, in particular the performances of Rory McCann (I can not overstate how very much I loved his performance this week, it was quite simply awe-inspiring), Maisie Williams, Ciaran Hinds, Kit Harington, and believe it or not, Emilia Clarke (I knew that she had it in her, we've seen it before way back in season one. Thank goodness that she finally showed some emotional range this episode, it couldn't have come at a better time).

Despite the impact that Tyrion and Jaime parting on loving terms will potentially have on both of their characters' development, I have to confess that I actually kind of liked this change; the way that they parted in books has always left me feeling rather depressed, and with such a dark overall saga, I do find myself appreciating the infrequent bright spots, show manufactured or not.

The only reasons that the episode ended up not being a 10 to me include the rather silly exploding fire balls hurled by the child of the forest (now really, what exactly were they supposed to be -- some kind of alternate universe version of an rpg??), Jojen's death being rather unlamented, even by his sister once she got inside the cave (seems a bit OOC), and the final Tyrion - Tywin face off not quite matching its incendiary potential (Charles Dance's Tywin has been so incredibly dominant a character throughout his run that it pained me to see him going out so meekly).

I agree with all of the above except for your take on Tywin's demeanor. Think about it. If you were sitting on the porcelin throne with a very pissed off imp pointing a crossbow at you, I'm pretty sure you'd be timid too. I don't care how much of a bad-ass you are. . .

As far as Jaime and Tyrion parting ways friends, I felt the same way. I really like these occasional bright spots in the show that the book seems to lack. It gets depressing after a while to go so long without a little bit of positivity.

LOL, people need to realize there are going to be changes from the book, stop rating a show based on that. It was a great episode. Imagine if you didn't read the book how amazed would you be right now

Couldn't agree more. I read the entire series before the show was even on and I love the show. Think about it this was way people: You are getting two stories for the price of one.

When the next book comes out, you'll be able to enjoy it as it is. For now you're getting to watch a seperate yet similar story. That's how I view it and it works for me. . .