Ice Queen

1 hour ago, Lady Anna said:

But when Drogon is outside the door to the Red Keep when Jon goes there, he was covered in snow, no? He shook it off. Or were those still ashes?

Ashes. It was right after the battle and the whole city was smoldering. 

10 hours ago, Bran the Shipper said:

We prove that even though Dany went too far in The Bells episode, she did not go mad.  She still was working towards her goal of breaking the wheel, and she didn't intend to stop until the whole world was free.  But she is killed before she could because Tyrion, in an attempt to save his own skin, convinces Jon that he needs to kill her lest she execute Sansa and Arya.  I think that how Drogon responds to her death proves that she was a good person.  Did he give in to his rage over her death and kill Jon?  No, he mourned the death of his mother and then tried to fulfill his mother's wish for a better world by breaking the wheel in the best way a dragon can.  Afterwards he peacefully flew off with his mother to bring her to a better place.  If such gentleness could be displayed in a creature of fire incarnate, you have to praise his mom for her good influence.

Here's the thing. She talked about breaking the wheel, but she was infernally convinced that her way was the only way, that people don't know that they want freedom. And worst of all, they wouldn't get a choice. She was speaking like a true tyrant. She was going to make war on her own people, from Winterfell to Dorne, and no doubt they'd all suffer the same fate as King's Landing. And when she was done with Westeros, she wanted the whole world. 

Tyrion summed up everyone's increasing tolerance for her brutality nicely. That is how tyrants gain power. 

Jon was right to kill her. It was the only way to stop her. 

1 hour ago, Kaguya said:

So who was Green eyes that Arya was going to kill? 

 

Ans where is Nymeria? 

Littlefinger was green eyes.

2 hours ago, Kaptajn Congoboy said:

I missed that. So with the Others gone, the planet gets regular old winters like any dull old dirtball?

Damn the Children of the Forest messed up in more ways than one.

The defeat of the Others was supposed to end winter. I guess the showrunners skipped that chapter. 

7 minutes ago, Ser Glendon Fireball said:

Some random thoughts:

• so those bookmakers saw right about Bran ending up king... ah, well played to them, how did they do ??
• so happy for my man Davos. Dude kinda took the social elevator
• ...and so did Bronn actually. But I actually dislike Bronn since that crossbow moment
• that Frodo-like ending for Arya was long predicted, but was still delightful to watch
• how did Drogon not burn Jon to the ground after he killed his mom?? Ah, well, Targ blood etc I guess...
• how did they handle weather in this ep ?? At the beginning it's clear, then there's snow everywhere, then a few "weeks" later it's summer again ?? And wasn't the WW extinction meant to bring back some balance to the rythm of seasons ?
• isn't Davos aware of the Unsullied being eunuch? His proposal of them filling an empty Reach with new generations of Unsullied babies felt so nonsensical lol
• why do they think they'll absolutely need a Master of Whisperers though? Not sure this function actually helps the regime, not to mention it leds to the MoW being an absolute schemer lol
• Jon basically brokes his NW vows for the 2nd time, what a champion.
• this Sansa ending isn't going to please our resident anti-Sansa activists lol
• so Brienne really thought it was outright necessary to mention that Jaime was rock wrecked by Robb at the Whispering Wood ? lol 
• so the Unsullied are heading to Naath... are they aware that there are foreigners-killing butterflies out there ?
• this vision Dany had at the House of Undying back in S2, was so perfectly fullfiled. Reach the throne, but instead reach her gone Khal & baby in the fields of death.
• Jon's storyline, as much criticized as he may be, makes sense IMO. He's in eternal conflict between love & duty... as is everyone in this story. I think it's one of the rare GRRM elements of writing that D&D successfully implemented in their show.
• Tyrion throwing his Hand badge down the stairs was so badass. Even more badass that Ned doing so with Robert back in S1. I hope Tyrion will experience less difficulties with Bran in the future lol (at least this King is a bit less adventurous than Robert & Dany, if anything)
• so those Northerners just can't stop yelling " [something] IN THE NORTH !!!" ,right ? 

The snow at the beginning was ash. 

When Jon and the wildlings pass the Wall, there is a green plant shooting up out of the ground. So spring is coming. 

1 hour ago, fairwarging said:

Only seven?  Edmure, Yara, Gendry, Sansa and SweetRobin, the phantom Prince of Dorne, and whoever from Highgarden, long may they reign. Sorry, Yara, squids don't count. 

What about Tormund, King Beyond the Wall?

41 minutes ago, LHakaLH said:

To say this episode is bad would be the understatement of the ceuntry. This episode is beyond bad; it is incoherent, incomprehensible, and batshit insane: Who in the right mind would make those decisions, let alone combining then together in one single episode?

The most glaring problem is of course the writers completely miss the point and central theme of the book, that human earthly ambitions or political quibbles are nothing comparing to the whims of nature. The Others are exactly that: a force of nature. It cannot be bargained with. At best you can only build a dam or a wall to limit its destructive potential when nature has entered into a more docile cycle. Even then you can only live with it and be on alert.

Bruce Lee's little sister just outright assassinated nature. And going by their interview, it was an intentional choice. How could they completely miss such obvious point of the story? I believe the best explanation is malice. This is the writers saying they don't care what the audience think. All they wanted to do is to shock you, or going by industry's jargon, subverting expectation.

They intentionally trade logical and coherent storytelling for shock effect, and do it without the slightness shred of care and in such a hamfisted way. It is like they are saying to the audience "you didn't like our previous decision, like Sandra getting raped for no reason? How do you take it now?" Then they proceeded to rip the whole story apart at the seam.

We have underestimated D&D. They aren't just hacks; they are malicious hacks, trolling our love of the original story and good storytelling. 

Next episode, Arya ninja-stabs Euron. The episode after that, she single handedly kills Gregor while wearing Sandor's face because we cannot not have 'cleganebowl' (Fan service y'all!), valonqars Cersei In the finale, solves global warming, invents the printing press and brings the industrial revolution to Westeros And everyone claps.

It's quite apt that my GoT discussion group with friends is now called "The Long Shite"

Bold mine. You just summed it up perfectly. Bravo!

Just now, Nightwish said:

Thanks but what I meant was why he has to do it himself, not trusting other wights to do it? He has a full army of zombies there. 

Nope, no explanation, but maybe it's like how and why Lord Voldemort wanted to personally kill Harry Potter. 

2 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

Is there any explanation offered why the NK wants personally to kill Bran? 

No, other than the enigmatic "wants to destroy all memory of humans". 

2 minutes ago, briantw said:

I think we'll definitely get Winds, and I suspect it will be announced shortly after the show ends.  

Obviously more dubious we'll get Dream, although maybe once Martin ties up a lot of the loose plot threads that have been slowing him down he'll be able to get through Dream quicker.  Probably not but who knows?

Wouldn't that be nice. I'm not counting on it, but it's nice to think about.  

44 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Perhaps Ayra surprised the NK because she too is dead and resurrected -- how the hell else do we explain how she survived the waif's repeated stabbing in the gut and submersion in that toxic water of Bravos's harbor?  With her training, it seems she can be effectively invisible -- the way she was suddenly there in the Wood, surprising Jon.

 

Jon is dead and resurrected, and the NK was aware of him a mile away. 

2 minutes ago, #teamNightking said:

Kind of silly in the books too, to be honest. GRRM had the zombies just wandering around or maybe turning left every time they came to the wall all NASCAR style... for years, while the story ignored them. 

It's the "Game of Thrones" not the "War with the Others"

Honestly has it not always been primarily about the Iron Throne?

I think so, and I'm fine with it. 

 

It's the Song of Ice and Fire, and it's about the War for the Dawn and the harmony between the forces of ice and the forces of fire. The IT is just a sideshow. 

9 hours ago, AndréaV said:

But WW are not stopped by iron.... It is even worst because the dead will rise and will have a weapon at the ready

It's not to stop the WW. It's to prevent the dead from rising as wights. 

9 hours ago, AndréaV said:

Thanks for the quote! Didn't remember the iron thing in the prologue.

However, this is all from the books and D&D have long ago left the book behind. Don't believe this will come up, specially because the WW used an iron chain to hoist Viserion out of the water

I'm not entirely convinced they've actually read the books, and show only folks won't know the difference.

Unfortunately. 

I know for a fact that most people on this forum could have done a much better job of it. 

59 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Hmm...maybe.  But if iron actually can keep wights in check in that way it's strange that it doesn't have much effect on them when, you know, it's actually used to fight them.  Also, there were several swords taken from the crypts...but I suppose we can assume they were replaced.  And, finally, I wonder if Lyanna's tomb got an iron sword

You're conflating two concepts. I didn't say they could be used to kill wights or WW. I said it was used to keep the spirits of the dead in their places. Not the same thing at all. 

However, Old Nan tells us waaaay back that the Others hate iron, and an iron axe is the only thing left from their very first attack on the wildlings in the prologue. Additionally, the wights in the ice cells at the Wall are bound with iron chains. 

The swords keep the Starks from rising as wights or even as leaders ( if you think as I do that there are Others in the Stark family tree). 

By 

ancient custom an iron longsword had been laid across the lap of each who had been Lord of Winterfell, to keep the vengeful spirits in their crypts. The oldest had long ago rusted away to nothing, leaving only a few red stains where the metal had rested on stone. Ned wondered if that meant those ghosts were free to roam the castle now. He hoped not.The first Lords of Winterfell had been men hard as the land they ruled. In the centuries before the Dragonlords came over the sea, they had sworn allegiance to no man, styling themselves the Kings in the North.

10 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Wait a minute?!  Are the crypts of Winterfell magically warded like the Wall, etc.?  Because, if not, couldn't all the entombed Starks simply be raised to attack those sheltering there?  And then they're already inside Winterfell!  Um, our heroes might wanna get that checked out! 

Every tomb is guarded by an iron sword to keep them there.

2 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

There is no Lord Tyrell. As dumb as it Lady Olenna was leading House Tyrell and she pledged To Daenerys. 

And then she died, leaving the Tarlys without a liege lord. 

They owe Danaerys nothing. 

2 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

He only did that after they kneeled. That is exactly what Tywin said--if they kneel help them to their feet.

Neither of them said you shouldn't execute enemies who refuse to bend the knee.

Tywin said that. I don't think Robert ever did. He valued honesty and bravery and was willing to be merciful as long as his foe had those qualities. 

5 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

They betrayed House Tyrell who had declared for Dany. So yes they betrayed Dany.

Olenna accepted that agreement with the Sand Snakes. Did Lord Tyrell? If not, then they didn't betray anyone. Unless Olenna was named Lady Tyrell, then it's not her decision to make. 

2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Robb did.

And Robert Baratheon went on to help his enemies to their feet and win friends of them. 

Dany took the dictatorial "my way or the highway" approach--a foreign queen who had never set foot in Westeros, with a horde of Dothraki screamers, Unsullied and two dragons. She expected instantly loyalty because of course it's her god given right to have everyone in the world bow down before her. 

As I said in another thread, she's just like conquerors and dictators everywhere. 

Pittsburgh, PA, USA

I may have another, not confirmed of course. The story of the NK's pursuit of the Night Queen is very similar to the story of Pryderi's pursuit of Rhiannon in Welsh myth. In fact, the name Rhiannon means "night queen".