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the conquering bastard 25

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  1. the conquering bastard 25

    *Come out and die* never happened.

    It's complex and simple at the sametime. I believe that Brandon and Rickon along with those that went with them to KL were in on the kidnapping plot. Think about it why would Brandon think that Rheagar went to KL when he was known to keep court at Dragon Stone and there was known bad blood between the king and his son? This makes no sense. Then there is the position of Lyanna on the Trident. Why was she not either in Winterfell coming down with Brandon for his wedding? Or with the Tullys learning the ways of a southern court? Im of the mind that she was being held either at castle Darry or Harrenhal. Both of which are sworn loyalty to house Targ but primarly to the Prince as it was House Whent via his kinguard brother that set up the tourney in the first place and house Darry has provided 7 knights to the kinguard. Not to mention Jamie Lannisters talks of Darry was that of a man of duty. Then take into account Dany's vision of her brother with Elia. Elia asked Rheagar whether he was going to make a song for the prince. When he reply no he already has a song of fire and ice. I think this is Elia's way of asking where he was going. As stated by Barristan he would go to Summerhall and compose sangs and such but he would do so alone. I believe that Brandon's part of the plan was to purposely get arrested. Protocol would demand that Rickon and his northern's would come to answer for Brandon's crimes. But if one was trying to get enough lords together to summon a great council and displace the king this could and would have been a brilliant opening move. Lyanna's kidnapping was the signal for the lords beholden to Rheagar to come to KL and overthrow Aerys in a bloodless coup. It would have worked if Rheagar had left someone in place to stay his crazy ass father's hand. Yet even that's suspect. Remove the Stark, it's supporters along with those of Riverlands and Vale. There can be no coup as no Rheagar doesn't have the military or political backing to make his move. He needs the major heads from every region to throw their support behind him to remove the king. He's got the Lannister's support if it removes Jamie from the KG. Stark Lyanna becomes queen and her children are in the line of succession. It's in Dorne's best interest as Aegon can still become king even if Elia herself doesn't become queen. The Tully's are tied to the Starks via marriage with Brandon and Cat. Rheagar has the crownlands as their high lord. Nobody cares about the Greyjoys. Now the Tyrells are the tricky point as they could throw their support behind that of Aerys' but then think about it Marg might not have been born but her older brother would have been and a marrigae between Rheanys and Willis would have been a boon and set right the marriage under Aegon V's reign. The only house that he would have to be wary of is that of the Stormlands but Cersei in Roberts bed would go a long way to soothe Robert's wounded pride and he can direct his hate at the crowned Prince but what can he do when he would be without allies and outnumbered. I could even see Rheagar asking Arryn to become Hand as Rheagar doesn't seem to trust Tywin Lannister. Those are my thoughts and That's how I feel
  2. the conquering bastard 25

    Moqorro's quote to Tyrion

    There is a passage where Tyrion looks at the moon and it reminds him of an eye following them. I would propose that this is a referenece to Bloodraven. He seems intrested in Jon the stark children and Tyrion but not Dany....also this passage was when they were on the shy maid. So he's keeping an eye on Aegon Blackfyre as well...
  3. the conquering bastard 25

    You're Ned: find some marriage betrothals for your kids

    yeah and it took fire and blood for William the bastard to get the throne and it wasn't until Henry I and II that the English were settled with the Bastards line taking the throne and that's after most of the Saxons and Anglo rulers had been eliminated. The Ironborn would object and they have the skills and ships to make some of the most prosperious places in Westeros bleed til they get the terms they want. They can harry the coasts, slip up to Highgarden, Oldtown, parts of Dorne and even the Trident lords and cause major trouble for these regions and it's masters. It's too much work and too little gain on a really big IF
  4. the conquering bastard 25

    You're Ned: find some marriage betrothals for your kids

    Theon and Sansa no matter how one slices this pie aren't a viable option. There is nothing that came make this match a good one. The proposal that you have laid out isn't going to work either as if Theon is removed from the Iron Isles as lord there will no retaking the isles in Sansa's children. Seeing as they will present the same problems that Theon posed. They were raised in the North be of the wrong faith and have a mother that would be seen as unsuitable. They would always be viewed as soft green landers. Not to mention that the Iron Isles would resent Stark interference. Its just not going to happen. The only way that maybe this match could work is if something like what Asha proposed at the Kingsmoot. The Starks were to cede some land and woods to the Iron Isles and there was almost like an exchange program to settle the lands give to the Greyjoys in the North. Yet that's creating problems for Robb and future Starks down the road. Seeing as the Iron islanders have never been happy with their lot in life and would see the land given as a foot hold in the North for future conquests. No this is just a bad match and I understand why Ned never made the proposal to either Balon or Theon.
  5. the conquering bastard 25

    You're Ned: find some marriage betrothals for your kids

    Let's take this step by step. In the past there have been such cases as the House Hoare whom interwed with the Andals and were found to be ungodly and unfit to rule because they tolerated the 7. Theon is suppose to wed a woman that is that off the 7/old gods after having been on the Greenlands and living with the Starks for 7 years. The Hoares tolerated the 7 built septs invited priest to the Isles. The same thing that you are proposing. Eventually they turned upon the Hoare family led to war with the west. What you are talking about a coup that is worthy of some of Roman Caesars. Replacing Captains and crew, imprisioning Vic?!! Have you lost your mind. These are the same men that were so loyal that they stayed at Moat Catlin even when they knew that their doom was at hand. These same men would turn on Theon at the first avalible moment and it would be civil war on the Isles. The Isles arent going to welcome Stannis Baratheon on Pyke or anywhere else on the isle and that's a folly worth of the Young dragon and lord Tyrell. You do know what happened to the Lord Tyrell right. This man Stannis was instrumental in bringing down Vic where the fleet is strongest. The isles would be burning to bring such an asshole such as Stannis to his knees. Again this is a bad idea and the makings of a war between the Iron Isles and the rest of Westeros for many years to come. Because the isles wouldn't see Theon as the ruler they would see him as an underlord to Stannis and by extention Robert and the Iron Throne. Under Balon with their fight for independence they were given a taste of the Old Ways. A chance to go back reaving, pillaging and raping as they saw fit. No they aren't going to be happy to see Theon and Stannis or any one under Baratheon rule on the Isles. Expecially with a wife that practices ungodly worship as the 7 and the Old Gods its just not happening. They would view Sansa as an interloper expecially if she brought with her priest, handmaids from the North and built tributes to the 7. It's bad ju-ju in the making. It's creating more problems than it would solve. Regardless is the relationship between Theon and Sansa was a happy one, which given Theons womanizing and Sansa being her mothers daughter I just don't see it. Not to mention if Sansa went crying to her brother or father about Theon's treatment of her, then again thats another reason for war.
  6. the conquering bastard 25

    You're Ned: find some marriage betrothals for your kids

    were you going to finish that thought? Were you agreeing or disagreeing or did you have more to say? Not being a smart ass just seeking more information
  7. the conquering bastard 25

    You're Ned: find some marriage betrothals for your kids

    Vic is the admiral of the Iron fleet. There is no way that one can remove him from power seeing as the captains of the iron fleet are loyal to him and those that aren't loyal to him are loyal to Asha. They would have to be apart of Theon's court if he hopes to be an effective ruler. OR Theon could go your route and remove them and have revolt on his hands. Then there is the Aeron whom holds salvation in the form of being the major priest of the drowned god. Sry can't remove him unless he wants to alienate his lords and small folk by being seen even more as a greenland lover than he already been seen as with Sansa as his bride. There is no way that the lords of the Iron Isles are going to be happy about having the Lord and master married to Sansa Stark whose father helped smash their independence and turned their lord into one of them by having Theon a captive for 10 years. Not to mention building a sept to the 7 is a really bad idea. There was another Greyjoy that had the 7 on the isles until the religion was banished because of it's unpopular practices went against that of the Drowned god. Once again I'm sorry but this marriage for political reasons is just asking for more trouble than Theon has the skill or patience to navigate having been away for the isles for so many years. He has forgotten as much as he remembered. Just think about he example of Theon and the golden chain that his father snatched for his collar. He had forgotten about paying the iron price. This is just a really really really bad idea for both parties. Theon would have to spend the first part of his rule trying to gain the respect of his fellow lords and small folks and prove that he's not an outsider. Meaning a more ideal wife for Theon is not a Stark that is as foreign a bride as Theon could get. Wrong religion, bad blood and just bad politics. No amount of time would make Sansa any less foreign in the eyes of the lord of the isles especially if she choose to keep her faith and make the court more Greenland.
  8. the conquering bastard 25

    You're Ned: find some marriage betrothals for your kids

    NO ned didn't know that Joffery would abuse his daughter. He didn't like the little shit. He didn't know that Lysa killed her husband either. He thought that someone in the Vale had a hand in this. We the book readers don't learn of this until Sansa learns about it from Lysa herself when she was having a breakdown. There is no way in the seven hells that Ned would willingly let Robb give up his Stark name. It's just not going to happen. It would piss his bannermen off as well. They would wonder what is wrong with the Stark name that has endured for 8000 years. They would think that Ned had taken leave of his senses. The north prides itself on being apart from the other kingdoms. They are a world apart from the rest of the kingdoms in everything from Religion, way of life, socially and culturely. They don't even have many northern knights!! Other than supporting the Targs because the alliance made by Joffery Targ before that the North kept out of southron affairs. After that the North only was called upon when they there was a war. Up until Rickard Stark and his southron alliance scheme the North had very little to do with Southron affairs and politics. I think that part of the reason for Rickard and his schemes to wed his family into the south was for the north to be taken more seriously by the other great houses and to be seen as the power house that the Stark are but even in his schemes he was to wed Brandon to the Tullys he was keeping his Stark name and Lyanna would have taken her husbands name and possibly been made into queen. So yeah there is a huge difference there. He was striving for greater influence but still keeping the Stark name alive
  9. the conquering bastard 25

    You're Ned: find some marriage betrothals for your kids

    why should Robb have to marry someone of the North. That's part of the problems with the seven kingdoms. There's not enough marriages outside of the various realms. While yes intermarriages between different kingdoms down the road may cause problems with succesion if one of the male lines dies out but other than that it could open alot of doors and lead to more understanding between the various houses. I'd marry Rob to a lady of the West. Lady Alyanne Leffold. Was her father's heir even before the war. Would present a fat dowary and the entrance point to the West. Nice bargining chip if the lannisters ever got out of hand. I mean the Golden Tooth is the major entrance point and with Robb having Tully blood if war were to break out it gives them a huge advantage. Riverrun provides a fallback positon and the Golden Tooth an entrance point. While Tywin might not like having a Stark/Leffold marriage there isn't much he can do about it. While any second sons they might have would inherit the Western lands and the first son could take Winterfell. Sansa would be wed to either a Frey or Mallister. House Frey because the Twins can be used to guard against any army coming into the Neck or act as refuge for any army coming down from the north into the Riverlands. IT's a matter of logistics and way to hinder any army trying to attack the north. While house Mallister can be used to help safe guard against the Iron born and help possibliy with shipping goods to the eastern side of the eastern side of the North. Also with this betrothal in place its kinds throws a kink in Robert offering Joffery's hand in marriage to Sansa and all the horrible stuff that would later happen to her. Also this would circumvient Frey's marriage alliance with Robb and also gives him access to the twins without having to sell his soul to Walder Frey. Ayra is a little tricky. I'm definitely thinking somewhere in the south possibliy house Yronwod. As the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I would want to apply pressure to Doran Martell. Letting him feel the long arm reach of house Stark. While think about giving my daughter the freedom that a house of Dorne could provide. Yet there is also Oldtown and house Hightower to consider. With house Hightower and the wealth, swords and ships at their hands isn't to be discounted. Not to mention that it might split and take away from the army of the Reach if there ever was a war in the future. As the Hightowers are the most power house outside of the Tyrells, it might make the Tyrells think twice before they wage war on the wrong side of house Stark if 1/3 of their army is on the other side of the battle field. I would definetly send Bran to be fostered with Doran Martell. I know I know but here is my reasoning for the fostering of Bran with Doran. One I would want him to get an outside prespective from that of North. Also I would want Doran to know that I trust him with my family even after all the nastines of Elia and her children. I would also want him to know that I don't view him as an enemy but if war where to break out that I haven't placed all my eggs in the friendship between Martell and Stark. Yet where to wed Bran well he does want to be in the KG. THose positions are as much political as well as based upon skill. My best friend is the King and well in part owes his positon to me and my families down fall. So I think that Robert could do me a solid and get the boy in the KG if asked nicely. That leaves Rickon and Jon Snow. As I haven't touched the Crownlands, Reach, Vale or Stormlands for an allience I would look there. But as I've promised my son to Robert with the KG that's as good as a marriage allience with the Stormlands and Crownlands. As a member of the KG Bran would have influence at court so that's shoring up my ties there so it's best to look to the Reach and Vale for Rickon and Jon. Rickon could be wed into house beebury. Strong ties to the Tyrells, small house where Rickon could be of some use while also have eyes and ears into the schemes of house Tyrell without being looked at as a threat. Might also give the lad some polishing around the edges as he sorely needs them like this older sister Ayra. Also get him out of the North so there would be no question of which son of mine that would inherit Winterfell when I'm dead and interred. Which leaves my last and bastard son. I would not send him to the Wall. He is a son of winterfell and Robert is my best friend I have done alot for him and well the North is huge. I am sure that I could find some lands for this bastard son of mine along with a Vale daughter to wed him. The lords of the Vale watched me grew up and become a man. They respect me because of the War with the Targaryens. Not to mention Jon Arryn is my brother-in-law/ foster father if anyone could speak on my son's behalf with the lords of the Vale it should and could be the overlord of the Vale itself. I have proven that I can lead men in war, that I can rule when I wasn't even suppose to inherit the North. So this son of mine should be able to get a respectible girl from the Vale to wed him. My top choice would be Myranda Royce. The Royces have provided brides for house Stark in the past, they still worship the old gods, have ties to the Arryns as their chief rivals for control of the Vale. Not to mention this means that the Royce bride would be the mother to a new noble house in the North which is a huge honor, even it's through the marriage to a bastard.
  10. the conquering bastard 25

    Jon Snow, King of the north and Vale

    now now no need for sarcasm. Me and Lee have been having this debat for about a year. So I am allowed to gloat just a little bit don't you think? Wouldn't you if the roles were reversed?
  11. the conquering bastard 25

    Jon Snow's potential love interests.

    here's one that know one every thinks about but I think makes for an intrersting plot twist. Myranda Royce. Would shore up his political need in the Vale, comes with the support of the various Lord Declarnent houses, has Stark blood. IS in need of a strong husband and as we have seen she's jealous of Sansa and her engagement to Harry the heir. Would be interesting to see Myranda betrothed to Jon and Sansa green with envy.
  12. the conquering bastard 25

    Jon Snow, King of the north and Vale

    I have been telling you for months that Jon Snow would become the lord and master of the Vale. Jon Snow has Royce blood and as he has dragon blood as well... Every Arryn has a drop of dragon blood just like every dragon has a drop or two of falcon blood. The realm might not know of this connection yet but its coming. I have foreseen this connection coming every sense the Lords Declarant figured out who Sansa was. This was just the shows way of making it plausible as they have left out certain parts of the Vale storyline. Namely the LDs, the tourney, Maranda Royce and even Harry the Heir. This was just the first step of a huge network of allies and new kingdom forged by the North, Vale, Trident and Westerlands. Don't forget Sansa is still wed to Tyrion and thru him and a child they can have together brings the West into the fold. All of this was to come into play from way back when Rickard Stark, Jon Arryn, Robert Baraheon, Hosteen Tully, and Tywin Lannister were making a play to destabilize the Targ regime before Roberts rebellion. It's just coming about more organically this time. But hey what do I know I only saw this coming and have been arguing with you about this for quite some time.
  13. the conquering bastard 25

    You're Ned: find some marriage betrothals for your kids

    as they say hindsight is 20/20. You must be crazy if you think Ned Stark is going to let Robb Stark forgo his Stark name with its 8000 lineage for what an upstart house that is only important because Olys Baratheon removed the last king/queen of the Stormlands. That would never happen. Even if Ned was stupid enough to even propose such his northern vassals would string his ass up. Bears island knows of no King but the King in the North and his name is STARK! The long night would come go and come again before the Starks would let their LP take a different name. The north prides its self on being apart. So with foreknowledge in mind. Robb to heiress Lefford. The gold tooth is the guard against the Trident into the West. Not to mention huge dowry. I cant remeber if she had brothers but...having split loyaties in the west can only help Ned and Robb when they go south to play their game. Sansa actually i would have her wed Tyrion Lannister. One day she would be lady of the Rock and agsin split loyaties go along way. Along with the fact that once Sansa has a kid there would be no more need to Tyrion. Sansacould rule through said child. Ayra- Trystene Martell or Ned Dayne. The Martells because their is thks huge gap between Dorne and the North. The Lannisters killed Elia and kids. This might be away to heal the wounds of the past. Ayra would be happier in Dorne with its more open-minded attitude towards women. Ayra and thr Sand Snakes would get along famously and i could see Adrianna and Ayra being very close. Bran prefall- marcella Baratheon.Gives a link to the new dynasty. Keeps one child at court and with an ear in the Red Keep. Can push northern affairs with the king. Not to mention if something were to happen to Joffery and Tommen well Bran becomes king consort. This leaves Rickon and Jon Snow. For Rickon Lady E. Hayford. Lord in his own right not bad for third son close to KL. Jon Snow- well thats tough. Given his Stark lineage and close ties to Robb i would find a northern house. Karstarks daughter mayhaps. Yet that might piss the north off as the only kid that gets a Starks can offer is a bastard. Asha Greyjoy maybe as the iron island and north could definitely use some unity. Also it gets Jon out of the north. You know the saying out of sight out of mind. This should ease Cats mind about the succession. While this next one is far fetch it nvr hurts to make an offer. Margery Tyrell. Yeah i know hes a bastard. But made legit and if lands were found for him. It might appeal to Mace to have his daughter close to Robert and his ilk without actually marrying into the Royal family. I am saying now I know its a long shot and likely nvr to happen. Or Myranda Royce. Junior branch her father k kws ned from his time in the Vale and the Royce and Starks have a close relationship and bloodties. These are the marriages id make given my crystal ball and knowing the events that are about to kick off