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Hugorfonics

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  1. But Quentyn has his seal and if his father led him to believe he'd honor it then I'm sure sure he will Right, Doran will expect Danys assistance in taking Pentos. Probably later but maybe not at first. I don't see how Illyrio can publicly back any Westerosi as he's not there and has no army Of course not, more of the reason to honor his sons last vow. He may back Aegon over Dany for the throne but he'll back Dany for Pentos. I agree that Young Griff's not long for this world
  2. Then why would his son say that his father would honor the seal? The man's a prince and a knight, I think his oath has to be respected in at least some shape or form Same deal. It's all about Pentos. What other issue besides her "voices" word? Oh Aegon? Yea maybe but probably not. Even if Illyrio had other reasons for Danys success he's still responsible for them And it's not just Daario, it's also her blood of her blood (and a eunuch) these are extremely valuable hostages that will dramatically impact Danys feelings Why would she want that? I think your right, I think the triple alliance will lead to a bloody war in Pentos which wouldn't help Doran at all and he'll probably wish he could just leave that war and publicly back Aegon but he can't and it'll all be rather amusing
  3. It's not his style. Ramsay however, fits like a glove, or boot.
  4. But their title still dignifies honor and respect. Besides, the two witnesses knights also had credence to the legality Hand of the queen cosigned it And it is possible for Dany to sack Barri and call him an old kook or something but from Sunspears view there's very little leeway Probably not. But she showed him the dragons and talked to him about his Targaryen ancestry. There was something going on there I think But Quentyns dead and co will be responsible for the safety of a top commander, her blood of her blood and her salt husband. If successful they'll be nothing short of heroes in the eyes of Dany
  5. I think he believed it because that's what it is. The frog was obviously given lots of leeway to speak on his father's behalf because as things stand Viserys is in no condition to get married. Then two princes seals were stamped with two Dornish knights as witnesses. Everything eventually gets cosigned by the hand of the queen. There's so much legal mumbo jumbo involved here I don't see anyway Sunspear can go back on their word What treason, the dragons? Dany was all like "the dragon has three heads" she basically invited him to take one. (One, not two lol) Anyway, he's dead now and his accomplices have received their chance for pardons
  6. Princely seals and all that. Doran has no tangible way of getting out of this. The pact wasn't about personal dragons, just that Dany needs to be brought onto their side. Well if there's an alliance against Pentos then I suppose Frog succeeded
  7. Dany may be able to get out of the alliance, if she politics. The king was arrested. A coup launched by a disgruntled knight resulted in deaths and war. Dany may have to put her foot down and declare Barris tenure as illegitimate, thusly saving face in Essos, and more importantly in Magister Illyrios Pentos. Ok, cool. She can weasel. But this alliance didn't just involve Meereen and the Windblown but also Sunspear. I don't see anyway Doran can weasel his way out of this without losing face
  8. He should lay down the law before his lords tare the kingdom apart, which is the entire job of a king Only in numbers but in experience and morale its definitely going north, and presumably a bit west (but probably not lol). Robb inspires confidence, his men charge into greater numbers and come out victorious, Renly inspires games like jousting and rape the goofy looking girl It unnecessarily stirred the pot, and it had no chance of success any way you look at it. Very much look at me vibes like old maester said (i know you find flaw in his reasoning, for whatever reason, but GRRM gave us this backstory to better understand why he is how he is) Only when masking the egregious I concede that like, in some situations the govt taking children from their parents should not be called abduction, however I would only say thats the case when direct danger to the children is probable. Under any other circumstance Ill say its abduction, kidnapping, human trading and any other colorful words thatll crop in my mind. Slave trading for instance, the reasoning of the government does not get to dispute the dictionary. The children will be forcefully taken from their mother and confided to the constant supervision of that taker, to be used as will. It is what it is. Renly cant be king with a living Stannis, that doesnt make sense. Stannis had to be in his mind, not even Renly was that stupid. Its honestly why he crowned himself so fast, anybody with a vague understanding of dragonstone history knows Stannis fled to launch a rebellion so Renly had to declare himself king before the stormlords declared for Stannis. Kinda surprised. He did attack a war camp after all, Mance thought it was a last ditch from Eastwatch but still not some veteran knights but still, there was 10 times the men. Its insane, and innacurate because not all were men. No not spearwives (although...) but giants riding on fucking mammoths. Not just Roderick or Stafford but every single soldier in the story (that doesnt drape himself in steel and fur when visiting the 90 degreee brothal like some kinda Jorah) is a fresh peasant leavy. (some are fresher then others, sure) Oh, except the Essosi, theyre all slaves. Misplaced vengeance for his sons I think. Probably misplaced because it was easy to see the murderer of his sons and the abductor as the same Alright, the kings murdered. Princes flayed. Princess raped. Armies blown into dust. Lots of time has passed, the StarkTully faction is not the same thing it was, one might say it was defeated. Yet still, the lords rise for Rickon, still the Vale knights stir at Harrys wedding. The lords in their heart remain loyal, the separated soldiers of the North remembers and, you know, winter is coming. Does the North look weak? Or the king is dead, after launching an unpopular war that caused many victims and now prepare to descend simultaneously on two of the greatest cities in the world, Oldtown and Meereen. Does Greyjoy look weak? Robbs fault? Obviously not. Wouldn't blame Edmure either, although its understandable why someone politically had to get chewed out. Robbs few men were undefeated and Edmures policy of kicking men off his land left them with enough food. Brynden had mad food for instance. Numbers are for arithmetic, as I started this thread off implying by stating the three biggest one sided cocky generals battle. Tyrion did not, he hoped theyd fight Stannis' men and wasnt given a no but the real outcome he wanted was to force an abduction of Cerseis child. For some reason he thought thatd calm her down, maybe it did? Probably not possible. It perhaps cost Euron a dragons egg for Balon. (you know he didnt really call it off, right? Like, he gave the order a half a world away, how could it be reversed?) Strange, a minor character in a series of heart wrenching books, but ok. He did. I dont understand how the death of a fictional character is a reward, but you will be. Yea you said that, but we knew Stannis was the sea guy so hence the point of the chain
  9. How much would king Robert have to pay a faceless man if the SC minus a Ned went down that route? Also, for the fun of it, how much would the king (pick a king, any king) have to pay post mother of dragons and queen of Meereen?
  10. Mainly because theyre his subjects. But also because its giving them momentum Its certainly possible to be cruel and pragmatic, like say Tyrion knocking down houses adjacent to the castle walls before BW, but its also possible to be cruel and stupid, as Renly demonstrates. (you agree that his Marge/Robert plan was ludicrous?) Tywin is the enemy, not Cersei. All Renly doing here is a half measure forcing Lannisters hand. Lol, you and your semantics. Yes its the same thing. Taking children from their mother is nothing short of abduction. If Neds the legal regent then Renly has to listen to him, not turn traitor because he enjoys stealing his brothers birthright. 100 fighting men would have been more then enough to chop Janos down Every army is just Covid on wheels But numbers dont mean shit. And theyre not getting weaker, the Riverlands are going gungho on Robbs war, the West continuously raises more armies and Tywin and Robb both remain with their elite force Very much alive. Mance had 10 times then men as Stannis, Rodrik 5 to Ramsays 1. Numbers are useless because all these armies are just a bunch of peasants anyway. Greyjoy is attacking Robb and breaking off into an independent nation. Robb has done a tremendous job of defending the RL, although I should say Edmure who was more hands on. Doran will act, although Renly thought hed show up because Renly was delusional like that. Because it worked so well last time? We get some nice things. Like the death of Renly We knew Mel had magic and we knew Stannis was going to win, Tyrions not building a chain for his health you know
  11. Nope. (If you're forcing me to be serious I'll chalk to to 20% of the knights, though 35 may hit the margin too. Obviously if it was most or all of them she'd be dead already.) Neither one are knights. Looked a lot like sitting around. They should be out fighting men, not losing to a woman. I am not throwing shade at Brienne, only her peers. Gotta be one of the most unsuccessful characters of asoiaf. Maybe Little Walder. How? I mean something about Lynannas, but what? Cersei is a pain, not ugly. Robert knows damn well Cersei is infiltrating the govt but is unable to do anything because he was weak as fuck. Ned believed twincest would reinvigorate his friend which is plausible but a pretty face is just fatuous. If your talking about arresting a mother and her three children then it gets obvious he's not just fatuous but downright cruel. He actually could have made a difference here Mace could have done all this by himself. He is the joke of Westeros, so idk what that makes Renly He's eating the land bare. Large armies just hanging out tend to get sick as we see in Danys pov, social distance and such. Who's getting weaker? Robbs soldiers and Tywins are becoming veterans, along with the Greyjoy and the random dog walkers of Riverlands. He's losing momentum as fast as Mace gave it to him. Win what? He may have defeated Tyrion if Stannis never came knocking, may, but then what? Defeat either Tywin or the Young Wolf? What about Doran and Greyjoy? What about Dany? What? I disagree with all that but if I didn't how would that bar him from the IT? Not the first usurper to get assassinated nor the first brother to have received a hitman Handful of garlic and a couple of Hail Marys should do the trick
  12. Roose seemed amused by that. "All you have I gave you. You would do well to remember that, bastard. . This is quite a statement coming from a man who owes everything he as to his son. Id call that dangerous thinking, so would Hornwood, Theon, Ser Rodrik, Manderly, etc, Maybe not, the preliminary talks back at Winterfell made it clear that the Hornwood debacle was ambiguous Possibly. If the crimes were on Ramsay and Reek was just like a slave/witness he may have walked. Why do you think that? Roose gave Ramsay armor and hes known in the Dreadfort but I highly doubt he was given command of the Dreadfort Kinslayer and such, besides, Ramsays good for Bolton. Not a chance. The logistics cant add up. -Roose goes to Winterfell to pay homage (lets say he leaves his child bastard in charge instead of an adult with a title) -Robbs in the south and wants Greatjon to take hes footmen, but changes his mind to Roose. (ok, its possible Roose told Rams that) - Roose is running away from Tywin, his P.O address is somewhere in the RL, how can he message Ramsay to occupy Hornwood, or vice versa? -Roose is the lord now of weasel soups but his son is in jail. Once again the logistics dont add up on how they can communicate. -Ramsay escapes Theons clutches and arrives at the Dreadfort. Now seriously, how the hell could Roose have left a message to Ramsay about conquering Winterfell! Ramsays game was driven through luck, almost exclusively, but the bit thats not is nothing but guile and shrewdness from Ramsay, not Roose.
  13. Ok, but the whole scheme is still ludicrous, which is why I wondered why you called Renly pragmatic. From the dishwashers to Marge herself. Seriously, we're talking more then 75% of the knights regarding both the melee and the wager. Cats not doing a rollcall because thats not an interesting read. But if the entire chivalry of stormlands and reach is in Renlys pavilion then there are lords or possibly even knights there whove seen combat. That was the past, and he probably couldnt have helped anyway. Robert who belives nobody ever would call Stannis a liar and Lannister would be on to him. He cant inform Ned because Pycelle goes through his mail The law is. In his mind he definitely has an obligation. You may disagree but he does not. Not really. Robb knew he was a rebel, Tyrion knew he was sending agents to free Jaime instead of following the law and being peaceful. Perhaps he made a right move, but the momentum was certainly lost by acokk, where he sits around getting drunk and watches his best soldiers lose to a girl. We have no idea what they think. Saan thought they were going to go in though Like Robb whos situation was more pitiful then the Lannisters made it seem, although hes certainly badass No they dont. 0 free will there. Loras follows Renly, Mace follows Loras and Maces mom follows him. Its an entire kingdom of lemmings. Where Ned famously wasnt, interesting. But like most SSMs GRRM is clearly holding something back so I dont think we should give too much credence to it, like all other SSMs lol. Jaime thought of crowning his dad, Robert being the only option is some Renly type thinking Before WW. 10 days?
  14. Does Stannis have a magic sword? (lol) Hes not Symeon Stareyes, he let Robert die to save himself and to be able to rid the throne of Lannisters. Anyway thats the past, if he failed Robert it was in the past tense. Now in the present he can avenge But only because he has an obligation. If Renly did hed be singing the same sad tune Its honest but its also a brake of protocol and the basic law, unlike Stannis who is following the rules. Cruel and craven it may be. Slightly more acceptable usurpation though. We see Robb would have likely thrown his support behind Stannis if the roles were reversed. Theres other things then shadowbabies that can assassinate, everyone in the sunset knows Stannis is dangerous except apparently his brother. Dangerous and desperate, bad choice to make an enemy of. Stannis and his army are a bunch of fundamentalist nuts, they believe all sorts of weird shit. Anyway, my point was the author is clearly sewing some doubt in the readers mind But all together is even better then apart. But for sure, everyones fucked either way, if they had common sense theyd bend the knee to Sansa and get it over with. They killed all his enemies and gave him a kingdom but there was never any doubt that Robert would be king. After kingslaying the western lords ask Jaime if he wants to be kingmaker and his thoughts go to Robert, not Jon or Ned. We dont know much about Jon but Neds entire arc is just running away from his responsibilities despite being the only man able to do the job, so he definitely didnt desperately want the throne. Closer to a week I think. Quite the character. It seems to be based off of her appearance to Lyanna. Neds all like wtf? And he doesnt even know the real scheme And does whatever he wants ??? Everysingle one of them had money on the line on when they will rape her. After beating them up they cried trickery and every other excuse they can think of. They were clearly humiliated The entire chivalry of the south was there. Thats more then just Loras. Lords bannermen. Plural Ok
  15. He is a usurper and traitor who as a child was known for being eccentric and vain always demanding the center of attention. As an adult he orchestrates a scheme to replace Cersei under the incorrect assumption that Marge is Lynannas doppelganger which would reawaken Roberts one true love, or some nonsense. His entirety of work at the SC was to be a yes man to his failing king. The only thing worth while he did was allow Brienne to fight beside him, and that's after she beat up and humiliated his entire army. Why do you think he's pragmatic? I don't think so, the chivalry of the south was there. Like Lord Rowan for example. He calls them onion knights and codfish sailors Another factor. Renly is making this a decisive battle which could go horribly wrong The entire cavalry needs to graze, these goddamn knights travel with squires, camp followers and other useless mouths. Also foraging during battle means men being averted. And majorly if the train burns Renly will eventually starve. Small thing, he says he's praying and nobody cared so its not a big deal. In fact his brother was at that moment also praying, err fucking. Still, I think it's worth noting. Because she's a non combatant by a battlefield. Then why did GRRM include Catelyn's notes and Randylls? Why did GRRM write about the Lannisters perceiving Stannis as the greater threat? Well, it's kinda true. Right? I mean that's what it is. I agree Stannis is kinda playing the victim here but he clearly thinks his honor dictates him to avenge Robert and reinstate Baratheon rule. Where as his brothers had no honor to fall back on (not saying theyre dishonorable like that) and their only campaign speeches seems to amount to fuck that guy. He can take a ship to his brothers fortress and pay homage like a good little brother He offers two things, one legality. The other, being not making an enemy of Stannis. In for a stag in for a dragon? Because gambling doesn't always work out. Bullshit. Ned made Robert sure, but he didn't crown him. So pretty quickly. Of course, my guy desperately wants the throne. The Edric debacle can be written off as Stannis believed he was desperate to save the world, not just sit on a chair. Theyre warlords who rule over barbarians. They desperately want the throne like they desperately want food and water. Does Dany desperately want the throne? Balon? Euron? Joffrey? Cersei? Am I forgetting anyone, how about Roose Bolton?
  16. Yes. He says it's not a question of wants. That's not saying he doesn't want it at all, just that being king is his duty. Stannis never emphatically denies he wants the throne. Ned was the first, what Roberts will said. But the second should have been Stannis. I mean, he's clearly jumping the lines of succession here. I think it was an applicable summary
  17. He doesn't say that, he just changes the conversation. Of course Right, but Ned says Stannis so Renly had to change his plans, which immediately was a coronation because he... (All together now) desperately wanted it. I see what your saying, and I agree Stannis desperately wants the throne (like he's not the rightful king. Targaryen is a thing) but I'm also confident his brothers wanted it too
  18. Exactly Everybody thought Eddard was going to be defacto dictator, well everyone but Eddard and Cersei that is That because he was a lethargic abusive drunk whom nobody loved, let alone liked. That is of course except Eddard although he tried his best to alienate his newly created Hand at every moment.
  19. For sure, Loras is adequate. But still the appointment was done with favoritism in mind or at least it was a political decision, not a military one. And for all we know the knight of flowers woulda killed it, but theres no way anyone could have known that. He was green while other notable commanders were passed over. If not a lethal mistake its still a factor worth looking into. Renlys army appears to be far better, but my point was Renlys still underestimating the competition which is never wise. This too is a factor. Renlys army was massive. Medieval armies were like locusts to the fields they were staying in, Renlys size was like the spotted lantern fly. And if it was not over quickly then Renlys royally fucked, his battle is not only against Stannis but also time, this surely counts as a factor. His queen and her father. His mind is elsewhere Im sure he did too and it would have if Eddard, like usual, didnt bail him out when he was literally knee deep in some instead of fighting. Thats what im saying. Its not a crazy thing to spend your final moments of your previous life with your lover before embarking on your lifes climax, but it clearly is a factor, and with all the other minimal factors in place (not choosing the place, the time, the experienced generals not up front, fighting time, far from the train, unable to protect Marge if she is in jepordy, etc) Renlys win was certainly far from guaranteed would probably not. (its all sus) The logistics dont add up. Stannis had to have sex to kill Renly, the man is fucking insane no doubt there but I do not believe he was able to get a boner while contemplating his baby brothers death. This whole scenario is so weird its borderline comical, (like Euron and the dusky woman) The more oblivious explanation is Stannis belived Renly would die if he sailed to SE and Meli just seduced him when they got there like she tried with Davos and Jon she does not mention any shadowbabies to Snow, so we can assume thats how it went down with Stannis too, probably both times but definitely the first time
  20. The lance is good at first wave, but after that its all hand to hand. Swords and stuff, things that Garlen is good at. Also if Randyll must lead the rear then another veteran lord would have been the more conventional choice for the front, being not a teenager whos actually seen combat. Its unwise to underestimate the opponent, onion knights? We know that dudes badass. Renlys men look bigger and stronger, sure, but that alone doesnt write victory. Sure, battles are chaotic by nature and many factors will be at play, like how he left his supply train, along with valuable hostages, distant from the army which Catelyn noted as a red flag. Another factor could be that instead of finalizing battleplans or boosting the morale of his troops at the eve of battle he was getting laid. Of course he would. Dude was straight salivating for Winterfell, who knows how he'll act for KL. But I agree with the similarities, majorly being they crave duty more then a crown, it just so happens that theyre the same thing
  21. I guess that makes sense? Won't they be susceptible to trips and tumbles? And Loras is an adequate warrior, in fact one might say good, how he dealt with his rainbow brothers but by his own admission even his brother is a greater warrior. Not to mention they're both green while there are veterans of war like Tarly whom one would assume would have lead the van. Loras is adequate, but there are better options then what Renly decided. For sure, but what is the similarity is one side went through great lengths to choose the field while the other didn't seem to care because of the numerical advantage. Also, while I do think Stannis is gifted militarily ( how he managed to survive without calling a retreat at BW before finally when the reinforcements arrived is impressive, though one may say ludicrous. Then his win over Mance is straight legendary) he clearly is not Hannibal, Zhuge Liang or Napoleon because frankly nobody else in the world is (all 3 in the long run are military losers, that's interesting) I don't think Stannis was guaranteed a win, but I also don't think Renly was. I don't think any battle is guaranteed but with Renlys compounded mistakes the odds looks worse.
  22. If the horses charge into the sunlight the animals could lose sight, let alone the knights He agreed to every preparation Stannis made. Under no circumstances should the opponent choose the field of battle. Cannae, Austerlitz, Red Cliffs, these are the greatest battles in history. All incredibly one sided because the opponent choose where to fight
  23. Citation? He wonders why his brothers desperately wanted it, that's not saying he doesn't want it Perhaps you should say likely to win? Four to one is a lot but it's not as much of a difference as BW or the Wall, Stannis' other battles. Numbers don't mean everything, in fact in asoiaf the smaller army usually prevails. Also Renlys war council was just, no.
  24. He denies that he wants the throne? He sees it as his duty, but I'm sure he also wants to be king. Who wouldn't? I think Stannis believed he took all the reasonable steps in helping Robert but after JonA was murdered and Robert continued whistling along like nothing was wrong Stannis fled for his life in preparation to fight Lannister
  25. Imagine the statue is the only thing left standing lol. I agree with everything, Tywin even more so then his children wrote the fall of Lannister. It's possible the house falls, the twins and the kids are gonners for sure. I want a good ending for Tyrion and Shakespeare made it clear only death can bring that so that's probably a thing to.( Maybe my boy Tyreek Hill will calm the fuck down and change his name back to Lannister to save the house lol)
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