Hugorfonics

I certainly dont share your belief that Jorah was such a villain in between books 3 and 5. Mainly because when he was talking to the Lady by the water she demanded honesty and didnt stop until Jorah shared his Shrek like plans of being a valiant knight saving a lady in distress. For all extensive purposes I think we can assume the sack of Aspator was largley Jorahs creation. Obviously the plan originated with Dany but she sought the advice and sword of Jorah and her Bloodriders. And while these are brave and courages warriors and Dany later proves herself to be something of a military genius, I think its nonsensical to believe Jorah wasnt instrumental in nearly ever aspect of that particular battle. As far as the nominal command goes, I think absolutely. Barri has now largely usurped Jorahs role and we see him commanding Unsullied and Dothraki. In regards to the sellswords, Ben relishes at calling Jorah without the respect of his station which insinuates that once upon a time Jorah was their asshole strict boss, which is why Bens sidekicks start freaking out. Why do you think that? As he should. Not a heroic backstory. Which imo makes his path of redemption only more special What could he have done? Id hardly call it a betrayal (as if thats a bad thing) though. Its his sword, should he have taken his belt? If Viserys acts did you find any forigeners at the forigen market, what should Jorah say? Yeah I dont think thats disputed. Im not sure about Petyr specifically, Id think it would stay the Spider, but whatever. All the same I think thats just silly. He returned quickly because Danys war plans were decisive and the enemy was utterly routed. That he would let Mero escape has no positive spin to it, why would he do that? If Jorah wanted to maliciously betray her he would have done it in Qarth Breaking the law is hardly a betrayal nor is freeing oneself from the Spiders web. About his dad, he brought back the ugly sword, which is all these westeros lords really care for. As far as his slaving record goes, as of the sack of Meereen it stopped and Jorah became one of the leading abolitionists even if reluctant. Its a half assed plan to be sure, but to compare Tyrions capture to enslavement I think is a bit drastic. Hes a prisoner of war like his brother was. Regarding still, is also a new Jorah. One thats covered in the marks of a troublesome slave as he himself is a runaway, so its not like his comeuppance didnt catch up with him and I believe this most recent venture will push him further into his abolitionist career Of course not. We know what he wants, to fight for her personally. Because he wants to save her. As hes done numerous times in the past. Just because somebody else is capable of that doesnt invalidate his position as lord commander Tyrion doesnt seem like the type of guy whod freak out over a guy with two wives. And for that matter Targaryen doesnt strike me as the type of gal whod freak out with two husbands. The beauty of Targaryen dragon like diplomacy is that their subjects input isnt that important. Daario would raise eye brows, Jorah less so. But the whole worlds in love with her, just ask her hand maidens. Yea. Both. If Jorah wants to be king slaver like you suggest he wouldnt recommend changing sides If thats truly what she thought she would never have sent him off Who doesnt? Although Jorahs certainly a snob as well, although there is none snobbier then Barristan (except Eddard Stark) I wouldnt say he had respect for Rhegar, if anything that phrase is awfully dismissive. Ser Jorah is a pragmatist, he sees the world for what it is, not black and white but covered in red. For an advisor like her bloodriders or captains to be so cold and pragmatic is an ace for Dany. It allows her to follow with his schemes or to slightly twist them to her design, which is often brilliant. Is Jorah the greatest hero who ever lived? No, thats Dany. But does he deserve to be in the conversation a step above the Bloodriders or Ser Snobistan, absolutely.

1. Don't show up with fake medals of honor, no doubt. But I agree that wouldn't have moved Balon to a hug. 2. I don't think Balon knew about that. That was just Asha sizing up her brother. Hardly any conversation fit for a father's ear. 3. Yeah, I mean why not. He'd certainly get the heroes welcome on his way home, this would certainly boost his street cred, idk about maximizing it though. Theon wanted to be a hero, he also wanted to be a Stark along with a great fighter and lover but he needed to be his fathers heir. The max is the Seastone, or the acknowledgement that it'll be his. He assumed it would be, like the fate of a kingdom just boils down to assumptions, even if practicality was staring them in the face. But Balons not practical, so it's obvious he'd care little for succession protocol, let alone the greenland version. Yea I don't think Balon or Asha had any whim of a thought to handing the Seastone to Theon, even if he was draped in victory if he retired early. I think the only chance Theon had for a title was the acquisition of Winterfell and perhaps in time the conquest of Ashas Iron Islands. The funny part of course is this childlike squabbling and convulted plots that only an adolescent can think of will ultimately fall short to the adults in the room, or as Euron would have it, outside of the room

The Reaver. What a name! Five kings ruled Westeros, but in the islands the title only meant one man. Capable of taking a loss, admitting it and swallowing his pride while getting ready for the next chapter is note worthy in Westeros. Surviving all his advisories he struck when the iron was hot and for the first time in three hundred years put the islands back on the map by annexing a sister kingdom. Although his son acted tough when he first came back the Reaver could tell he was just a punk, similarly while I'm sure he loved both his brothers the treatment of his sister in law led to him choosing one brother over the other which brutal decision of course leads directly to his death. But aside from the crossroads of succession and the heartbreak of losing ones son and brother, the Reaver laughed off the foundations of sunset misogynism and sought to elevate his daughter onto the seastone chair. Balons ability to think for himself, exemplified with his banishment of the maesters separates himself from the rest of Westeros' simple minded lemmings. The Bear. Another man capable of drafting his own decisions, able to oversee a global campaign from a bird's eye view, or go through battle strategies to take a city or a aquire an army or simply exuberating unparalleled tactics and ends battles personally through his prowess. His queen would be less then nothing of it weren't for his intelligence, vigor and persistinceness which elevates him from a mere knight to a genuine hero.

Stannis made the biggest mistake, although Cersei repeated it later. They let the princess escape.

I don't think Mel knows. Because if she did know and approved then I don't see why the cloak and dagger, just send out both kids. But I really don't think Mel knew and stood powerless on the sidelines so I guess then my answer would be Crasters blood is Stark blood/Targaryen blood or whatever nonsense which I don't really believe either. Yea. Chest, hair, chesthair. His knee will just naturally bend. Or maybe his army of crow wildlings and Stannis' entire army will politely ask him. In the name of Targaryen. I think the eagles scars, and glowing chesthair should be enough to detract him from his general Starkness. But if it's ink she's looking for, then Jorahs back. With tattoos, just saying. I'd think (hope, gods i hope) that purple eyes will be like, making out with her brother which, judging from Viserys nipple play and promises of horse orgies, I'd just think making out with her brother would be gross, grosser, like even Cersei would find it gross

Yea it is hilarious. Tyrion was eying up the red priest being like Young Griff would like this guy until he asked for a translation and was like Young Griff should never talk to this guy. And what do you mean and then fans will fight about it lol. Imo you gotta go through the checklist, like a scavenger hunt. 1st on the list the heart of your wife. And so on and so forth. Surprisingly many characters are reborn after killing their beloved. I don't even know how it's a discussion, the obvious answer is Dany but then like Tyrion or Victarion (yo ship, Victyrion) or Stannis or like any character somehow not named Jon Snow. In fact the book goes out of the way to be like yea Jon killed Ygritte, but didn't kill kill Ygritte. But of course Jon Snow is Azor Ahai. But basically I think it's all gonna come down to corny. There's a little Azor Ahai in all of us and if humanity works together we can overcome ice zombies or whatever. Which I think is a nice message

Or she knows that Shireen is in her pocket. (Or that she knows it's all bullshit like the leeches) If Mel knows then she allowed it which would probably mean that she thinks Crasters baby has kb too. But I think they're gonna talk it out and somehow arrive on amicable ground. And then Danys gonna pull up and be like, Azor Awho?

Stannis' entire army was on the other side of the blackwater with the entire bay in flames and no way across. No gates were breeched and the Red Keep was yet to be scratched. Not just 2 or 3 KG or Bronn as well survived but enough soldiers under Tyrion fought with Stannis that it took the entire day to dub all the victors knights. Garlen and his father and Tywin hastened the end of the battle, but since the chain was raised Stannis' defeat was as well. Which is why the auxiliary of greedy ass Saan stayed back the entire battle, he saw Tyrions play for it was. Decisive.

Singular. "The war," she affirmed. "There are two, Onion Knight. Not seven, not one, not a hundred or a thousand. Two! Do you think I crossed half the world to put yet another vain king on yet another empty throne? The war has been waged since time began, and before it is done, all men must choose where they will stand. On one side is R'hllor, the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other whose name may not be spoken, the Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror. Ours is not a choice between Baratheon and Lannister, between Greyjoy and Stark. It is death we choose, or life. Darkness, or light." . I mean this lady's fucking nuts. At the very least, she's got a plan. There is a war though, not Bolton but the other one. Stannis was planning on offing Edric to fight the Others and that was back in Dragonstone days, not winter northern ones. If Jon says that's no monster, that's a maester! What'll it do? Why would Meli believe him? And if Jons dead, who's there to say the truth about the boys parents? (Very Ned Jon relationship living on in a new life)

Yea but so is Cersei lol. Roberts definitely nicer, idk about a whole lot though. He's definitely mean, sucker punching his wife and kid like, wtf? Yeah, I don't see it. Tyrells entire force is in the south ready to pounce on Young Griff. I look at Aegon like Robb, he's more of an idea. A martyr to remind people who's name you truly love. (It's not Lannister) "In my experience theres no such thing as luck." Who wasn't lucky? Ok so is this like fandom lore now? I missed the memo. Dudes mixing 151 with his breakfast, surrounded by Cerseis creatures and totally at her whim in private and public matters. It's a when not an if. Only asshole idiots like Ned and Stannis think Robert would really kill his own children. If Robert somehow magically survived and woke up to the truths and dangers, I really don't see him killing the kids. But he didn't. Twyin did fight off the realm (they mostly sat on their hands) and threw, if you'd like to call it luck, he was not trapped by Robb. Except Tyrion beat him. But they won't. Right, like if Dany and Cersei come to an accord... Would never fucking happen because it goes against the core foundations of their character. Was it lucky for Cersei that Roberts brothers are idiots? I suppose you could frame it like that. Did he make it out by the skin of his teeth? Sure. Did Aegon the Dragon? Sure. And Aegon never would have gone anywhere if he didn't have his two sisters like Tywin wouldn't have done anything without Cersei or Tyrion. But, what's the difference? They won

Everyone relays on luck and other people but for the most part, I don't be against the numbers. And I agree that like Tyrion and Jon were basically gift wrapped but Ned and Robert were defeated in a well thought out manner. It wasn't hard but it was still Cersei. But Marge didn't take Joff, right that was Sansa. And she married Tommen but they still live at moms house so, I wouldnt say she took him. But I agree she loves her children and she loves her iron throne.

Shes not as good as she think she is sure. But, strike gold once that's luck. Twice is a coincidence. Three times is noteworthy. But after the fourth, that's a prospector. "My father loved all his employees, but he especially loved the ones who ate shit without him knowing" Pycelle coulda, shoulda, totally did not save JonA thanks to his loyalty to Cersei My giant of a Lannister, and the crowd goes fucking wild. Like JonA, the hands of fate brought about their doom, but boy did Cersei twist that knife. (And for sure, Imps still around which is like, thanks Jaime. Oh what a betrayal! And then he killed their dad, I'm like scared for the kingslayer if she ever finds out) She's married to the fella, she had all the time in the world. A tourny or a hunt are noteworthy events but I'd hardly call them a rarity. It's more like what time isn't it advised to kill Robert. Yea he like kinda begged to get his head chopped off. Which like, I understand why you don't think that's a huge deal, she ripped a piece of paper. Marvelous. And yet, just look at the track record, she's undefeated. So yes we can make fun of Ned and his suicidal tendencies but we should still give respect where respect is due Aegons a joke, dudes gonna have like three more pages of screen time, the Martell's on the other hand will probably have just as much luck as the Tyrells did at defeating Cersei. Euron and Dany seem tough, but again so is Cersei. (I don't think she's like omnipotent or anything, just greater then these lesser beasts. But I'm sure the younger more beautiful Sansa will come and take everything she holds dear, so it'll be a hoot!)

She beat JonA, Robert, Ned and Tyrion. Surely that changes the odds? Dany I understand, armies of unsullied and dothraki, dragons, an impressive military career. Dany got it going on. I never understood the deference for Aegon though. When have the Blackfyres ever succeed? Why should this Young Griff fair well when greater men like Robb Balon or Renly failed?

How do you normally picture him?

Nah I think usually people do, or did. That's why humans are all over the globe, they just followed the animals to whatever. I guess the weather too was a huge reason for human migration and climate change in Westeros is just all types of crazy so I don't think there's a real concrete reason. Just prehistoric cavemen doing what they do best, not living in caves. Brans vision which is probably in Winterfell so a good amount past the initial invasion has them using flint weapons for the kill, so real real old school. I highly doubt they were running from anything as back in the day I don't think there was anything worth running away from

But it didn't, Cat was married first but Hoster demanded more and that's why Lysa was married to a guy 4x her age. If that wasn't the case then there's no reason for Hoster to send Lysa to an unhappy marriage, but she was the price...

It's not up to them. At the minimum Lysa was the price (but really both of them) . "Father," she said, "Father, I know what you did." She was no longer an innocent bride with a head full of dreams. She was a widow, a traitor, a grieving mother, and wise, wise in the ways of the world. "You made him take her," she whispered. "Lysa was the price Jon Arryn had to pay for the swords and spears of House Tully." . What's the point of text if we're just going to think whatever the fuck we want?

Ned + Arya?

Ok cool. Yea but like, ATN stole the election and then the next day GoJo releases it's figures around the time of the funeral. Is the following day the sale? Id assume a lie as big as India would be like, idk, but your saying you don't think it'll drastically hurt the stock? For sure, I get that. Itd be fun to see Ken spiral or Shiv talking in a high uncomfortable voice to Tom for a change or whatever Romans perversions get him into, but I kinda like the ambiguity too. (I do think that Shivs betrayal was a little rushed although I kinda wish Rome got one more betrayal in too) Well speaking of Roman betrayals, at the funeral Romulus hints to Frank that he's going to earn his namesake. So basically my takeaway from that scene was Frank does not want Rome anywhere near the throne. So like the hate for Rome is stronger then the love for Ken (plus making a fuckton of money and honoring Logans wishes (lol)

Question. There's only one India. Was Mattson doing something illegal? Shiv said no one will be looking into that for a while thanks to the election, but how long is a while? Kenny told Mattson also that half the sale is based off stock, if India TwoGate blows up can the Roys each individually lose their fortune? Can Mattson stay CEO? Remain free?

Sounds like Robert

She's got Robbs crown and was last seen north of the neck. You think Arya is going to kill her mother? What kinda Greek tragedy shit is this, and this would be good for Aryas psych? Catelyn's like not even 40, shes just a little banged up, no need for the Old Yeller treatment... Now if it's not her little girl with the shotgun who she still combs her hair for, maybe that dour guy who's probably permanently dour because of Catelyn?

What about his auntepmom?

That's what Reek is for. He's used to being a puppet A boy has strings Yea! See it does sound fun. And Sansa would be like wtf? And they'll say it's cool Jon's really a Targaryen now besides look at Robbs will and Sansa will again say, wtf? And then they'll explain everything Jon's been through and Sansa will be like, step aside. Lol nice. What do you think the chances are of Stannis bending his knee to Jon Targaryen?

Lol dangerous thinking I don't think anything so cut and dry, although Cat serving as an advisor for Sansa sounds awesome. I think it'll be more like every man for themselves. But through confusion, Alayne vs fArya for instance or the supposed reanimated corpse of Jon calling himself a Stark or even a Targaryen sounds an awful lot like whatever shenanigans Young Griff is trying to pull. Rickon has the worst claim but a direwolf which is more then nearly anyone can say, also while I don't see Sansa choosing to attack Stark (or Jon or Arya or Cat), Rickon is barely a child and will probably be used by Wyman or Davos who have their own aspirations. Bran will probably be the voice of reason, with his god like powers and his prophet the foster brother calming everyone down