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Hugorfonics

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  1. On a practical issue, the NW is seriously underfunded and doling out social security may cripple them economically. But on a metaphysical issue, crows are like wights, and I've never seen an Other sell a time share. There's a higher calling in play that can't be averted by things like honor, love, or pina coladas. Crows dress in black, on some MiB shit, because it's the last suit they're ever gonna wear (again) The problem with the NW is their job is being on call, like a paramedic. But unlike paramedics who work long hours, (prepandemic and obviously currently) the NW hasn't had an honest day of work since the last hero convinced all his friends and dog to travel north. My issue with Myshaing the slaves is with free will. Over the course of millenniums, the volunteers will forget that theyre on call for something official. They would have long decided that wildlings are humans, grumkins aren't real and it's fucking cold. With no whip, the slaves will leave their plantation. It's a distraction. Tyrell of old, for example, loves his Red Widow so despite See Useless getting robbed of his spittoon, Tyrell will side with its family. Now obviously, who the fuck cares because we're dealing with a few people. It gets crazy when it's King Robert ordering the release of his brother in law despite not having a trial. Family is messy. It turns a rational person into a not. Think clearly, your on call. Its both. The Starks, over 10,000 years, have never had a ruler in both Winterfell and the Wall (wya Brandon), and I believe if they did it would be detremental to the order of the NW, and possibly the entire north.
  2. It sure as hell isn't about Janos No doubt but I still say the NW is an enslaved institution and that it's impossible for a master to brake neutrality with it's slave. I think that without guaranteed submission to every inch of Westeros, the NW will soon cease to exist. By custom the king fights alongside the lc, but what you've shown in that post a bit back is that Jon has usurped the power and responsibilities of the king. So unless he fights with Ghost at his side there's no way the LC can fight alongside the king. This too I believe is another fatal stroke against the longevity of the NW
  3. They were. I'm probably not lol. Word, in fact KL made the NW job a whole lot easier (easier and lax) so at first glance it looks better now. If anything fighting Aegon is counterintuitive to the NW. (Although, maybe not. Lax watch after all.) I was joking but letting the wildlings in would surely have wrecked Targaryens fledging life (1/2 of it). He's also sitting on 10k swords. I, mean, Aemon mentioned it. He mentions a lot of things Relevant. He is still Aemon though, the guy who thinks it's a good idea to start off a letter Dear 5 kings. So maybe he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. It's a permanent breach though. While neutrality may not be a cornerstone of the NW it surely is of Westeros. And we're not talking some silly Cersei expelling Bari nonsense, this actually matters. There's no turning back, for all purposes the watch we know and love (the ones I just compared to wights) is over. Why should some Dornish woman's husband go to the wall if it's just a stormland project? Fighting grumkins and snarks is funny, Stannis isn't funny (I mean). So, realms saved today but NW gone tomorrow, unless it becomes a stormland project... Or a king of winter project. But that's the thing right, there were kings of winter who ruled alongside Lord Commanders. The jobs too important, can't be averted by squabbling with petty lords over a water stream, or deciding which wildling warlord will marry the runaway bride. Well, maybe not, all history is written by septons and maesters and Brandon allegedly built both the Wall and Winterfell... And Stormsend! Lmao, that's great.
  4. The 8000 years has seen lots, sure. Like forgetting the Black Gate, or how half the oath being in English the other half being near gibberish seems to me like the phrase got extended. But the biggest change gotta be Aegon right? (Or really when Stark annexed the North, but whatever) The NW now doesn't rely on hundreds of warring kingdoms anymore but 7 (still kinda warring) kingdoms under KL. It's gotta be more simple now, right? So if cb was one of a thousand independent castles for thousands of years without fucking up neutrality then I don't see how Jon's gotta do it 1 month into the job, unless of course neutrality wasn't a thing for thousands of years and only became recently (relatively). Hmm... Ok whether it was with good intentions or not, the Sunsets granted the crows neutrality in exchange for moneys and bodies, the trappings of power in exchange for it's control. Somewhere along the line the Lord Commander became a slave to it's subjects, it's duty replaced by grumkins and snarks. I wouldn't be surprised if around this time the oath became extended and coherent and instead of fathering children the crows are now fully at the mercy of the Sunset kingdoms. The NW may remember, Winter is Coming, the star has bled and Jon Snow will open his blue eyes. Lol Jesus, I thought the twist was Danys the bad guy. That's not bad. Cuz who has the power to arrest the brother of the greatest king in history? (until he was burned and replaced by the next greatest king in history) Only the king, and whats considered a crime for Ironborn? *Shudder* I hope your right. Please, Aegon made it out of his war by the skin of his teeth. (Balerions teeth) His entire army consisted of two sisters, one half brother a sad excuse for a navy and 3 animals. The rest were waiting for the first chance of weakness (that took 300 years lol), we see Aegon travel a few hundred miles to Dorne before realizing he made a Gob Bluth level of a mistake. Dude got lucky. As for what could Harren who wears the black do, well what would any LC with aspirations of playing the game of thrones do? Let the wildlings in of course
  5. For sure, it was his (everyone not named Jon) bigotry that made him question letting the wildlings in, but now that they're in they're in. I doubt Bowen wants to send em out, he does still have their kids after all. I think Bowen, and Alliser, know the enemy (how could they not, plus Thorne seemed on board in acok) They just also don't like Jon I can't get behind that. Jon has a controversial resume, but no where in it does it resemble soft. When Janos first met Jon, he was choking out Alliser like Darth Vader on an ambassador ship. He calls him a warg and a beast. Beasts don't get embarrassed. That's a valid argument, so I'll totally concede that Jon can still, like open the black gate or whatever, but there are other laws, right? The king rules from Dorne to the wall, they're all the kings subjects and must follow the kings laws (by not helping the king lol) (ok, I don't have a scroll of laws, but it's like a mantra for these guys so I assume Jahersys or some ancient kings made "nw take no sides a thing) The life of a crow is not a good one, to me they're more similar to the unsullied or the wights then they're Sunset neighbors. And just like their lives, their very institution is enslaved. There's no other way for it to function. But if the master wants to kill a slave, there nothing legally stopping them. (Really 5 kings should be appreciated? Lol, just write 5 different letters! I mean, it's not even a real war, Renly and Balon never shared a crown! Lol good old Aemon, the man who never wanted to be a politician) The entire 7k supplies the NW, not just the North. Theres no indication that the north supplies more then their peers, which is why neutrality is such a must. The only recruits and tools l can think of came from Tyrion. They own the gift, they tax em. They tax moles town. Honestly they must even pay their brothers cuz (despite my ramblings) slavery is illegal and how do these guys afford moles town? There's an economy of radishes and such so someone sows. Enough to allegedly piss off the Bravossi banker. So yea, only Tyrion. That's like Janos and seven shovels. No wonder Bowens freaking out, but just because times are hectic is no reason to ditch the core foundation of the NW. It's one thing to change the status quo of the NW but what Jon's doing here is changing the status quo of Westeros which is, criminal. Harren the black (probably) supplied the NW throughout his long and impressive reign, Harren who wears the black did nothing while his king and nephews burned because crows don't play thrones. What'll happen if things go one of the ways I said a few posts back, civil war on the wall and Lord Pyke takes CB, maybe Eurons cool with that and decides now is the time to supply the NW, if they spill the beans on Stannis' location and plans. (Or replace Pyke with Mallister and Sansa or Thorne and Cersei {Janos has many friends, Quyburn sent men}) It's a dicey dicey game my friend, one that can not stopped being played. Because when you play agot ya win or (Great fucking post!) Word. This is criminal. He might as well have sex with a blue eyed corpse. We've never seen Mance don a crown but if it looks like a duck, it's a king of winter. Like I'm totally on board with everything here, more then I've been, because really great post, but the status quo isn't even a conversation anymore. Theres been one check and balance in the Sunset since Brandon the Builder plugged in his first snow plow, and Jon is pulling a Tyrion Lannister and pissing on it
  6. It makes him able to count. The castles flooded with wildlings and queens men, daunting enough for a weak willed pencil pusher like Bowen, unless he's got sufficient back up. Bowens not strategic like say Tyrion, but his whole job is planning for the future so there's an essence of cause and effect thinking Word Idk. Bastards are black of heart, born to betray and all that jazz. Expect the worst, right? Plus his whole shtick is that Jon's like his dad and his dad killed mad people! But it's clear he was surprised so I think he thought he was going to the ice cells or something. Better to be a prisoner at court then not at court. They never got off on the right foot, did they? He's the status quo for sure. Radishes and calculators good, wildlings and grumkins bad. Jon is anything but the status quo with radical thinking of protect both peoples on both sides of the wall or actually physically protecting both sides of the wall So like allowing Stannis to save him, yea, fine. I'll allow it. Giving him castles (which he totally did, they're garrisoned by mostly Florents), arms, food, lodging, whatever, all cool. King rules and realm serves. But this business of liberation against the ironborn or the advice to march on Winterfell and not Dreadfort is straight 7 kingdom politics. Ahh, then good work @bemused. I always thought the murder plot started when Janos was given a day to pack but this is the first I've seen of a boar hunt like escapade, which Im totally on board with (Because he deserves criticism. Gared was like the third this week!) Completely agree. Now Mance is suuuuuper dangerous. He's got pull with the wildlings unseen in centuries, is a proven oathbraker, (name an oath he didn't break) liar, a pawn of the red witch and even a bard. But he is more then that. Lots more. There's simply no one like him, he's like a northern Jaime. Who has fought the most against the enemy? Who has the most knowledge of the geography, north or south of the wall? Who is the greatest swordsman? (Seriously, dude wiped the floor with Jon) To chop up Mance is to chop up your own arm. Just, nevermind the smell and hope the gangrene doesn't spread
  7. How do you know? From Jon giving his speech to walking up to a giant and getting shanked is less then 5 minutes. There's no way steward Marsh found his calling in 180 seconds. As @Julia H. superbly states
  8. Well he can do basic arithmetic, which is more then Sansa can say (lol) Yea I think there's a good chance Alliser is behind it. I used to think he was the third knife but since the show I'm fairly convinced it's Satin Huh. Interesting. I like it. Good work I'm very interested in what Leathers decides, because he's got pull with the watch and the wildlings, and obviously Wun Wun. Selyse and Meli too. Also Grenn and Pyp. Either Janos was compotant enough to know he was gambling with his life or he was too incompetent to realize his breakfast attitude was sorley miscalculated. It can't be both. Well he did come up with Jon assassinating Mance ( which did lead to the capture of some wildling princesses, whatever that means) But for sure, I'm not a fan. Alliser and Marsh however were, along with a large portion of CB I have no issue with any of these. In fact I approve. I however am not Bowen. Looking through the lens of an avid anti Wildling I understand his issues Jon helping Stannis is kinda criminal
  9. I think he will. He may be an asshole and a general bigot but he's not stupid, and taking out the chief without planning for your safety is just stupid. So he can kill Patrick and turn his Lone Star into G-men red or as we know it, Word, double for their "subjects". Still, the other castillian can't be trusted and CB must not be trusted. Huh. So he was... Word, ty. He should have been suiting up no doubt, for something. That's what a competent enemy would do, instead of breakfast. (For all the boo hoo rags to riches story of Janos, he was at the time, riches. Alliser and Marsh may have a better birth but Janos was socially elite to them, thus the natural leader. Even if the NW supposedly gives that away) Probably. The thing about Alliser though is although he's dangerous as hell, so is the Weeper and his comrades. Also getting your enemies out of CB is kinda obvious They acknowledge he won (even if Sam "stole" the election) it's just that Janos was the standard of "justice" against the "monstrosity" of snow. (Let wildlings in, arrested a Karstark, gave advice to Stannis, and lastly marching south). If Janos was still in that cafeteria when Jon mouthed off about Ramsay and stuff, he once again, wouldn't do shit
  10. Word. It'll be interesting what happens now though, if Marsh takes control of CB he should receive them for an election, but that's more like an invitation to get assassinated. Or gods forbid the other dude wins. I think it'll be safer for them to stay in their own castle with their own men, which goes way beyond party politics. Definitely. What his conspirators did was even more so. Like Marsh, and the ancient crows before then who murdered their nights king. Perhaps. It's hard to tell because we know so little of Slynt and his plotting. (Tyrion sent a squad with Janos from KL, do we even know their names?) But after Jon gave Janos his 24hrs he found him in the cafeteria, not exactly battle positions Bowen does what he's told, or did. Thorne however is probably not ranging on behalf of Lord Snow, even though he said he would. I don't think anybody misses Janos, but the message that he was pandering is now highlighted and administrated by component people
  11. There should not be parties and certainly there's nothing formal like I kinda alluded too with the Anti Snow Slynt Party, but there are cliques. Mallister and Pyke being the most powerful but even small Chett like cliques can topple an Old Bear, nevermind that head conspirator Chett was dead when his nemesis was murdered (insert foreshadowing music here) Do they not?
  12. I'll take that as my cue. So, right off the bat I'm not a Jon hater(I'm on your side), I think he's a good chap. I also think Jon was legally in his rights to do, well basically anything (for example marching on Ramsay, letting the wildlings in, not executing Mance, etc). Now having said all that, Jon Snow was murdered. If that was the plan then executing Janos was the correct move. But despite Jon's eagerness to ignore Melisandres warnings, I think we should assume Jon did not want to be murdered. So, yea, fucked up. Killing Janos was wrong wrong wrong. Over half of the voters at Castle Black at one time voted for Janos. (Bowen Marsh was his spokesmen!) The opposition party of Slynt was/is real, large, and extremely anti Snow. (Jon's father did bribe Janos into King making, he is a warg and did ride with the wildlings) Jon gave Janos 24hrs to pack, or plot. The plot failed and not one member of the anti Snow Party did a thing. As the leader of the Anti Snow Party Janos was weak, stupid and ineffective. As it's martyr he birthed a tyrant. A few questionable calls later, followed by three quick stabs and executing Janos was not the correct move. Despite GRRMs love of killing off his characters not one (excluding Prologues and Epilogues) has died without altering the plot. Thus Janos cannot be different
  13. God damn Ironborn. Wait, who are we talking about? The Dornish get weird glances cuz of their ultra feminist ways, but southrons are quick to look the other way because of the vibing culture of red wine and chess with dragons. Northmen don't play chess, plus they're not Faithful. They are savages who worship trees, for all extensive purposes, wilding. Speaking of savages who worship not 7, ironborn are pretty, pretty, pretty looked down on. Not just by the polished Sunset Kingdoms but by thou polished fandom; As if ironborn aren't as Set they come
  14. Tywin definitely did whatever he wanted and encouraged his children to do the same. Or encouraged Jaime to, while the other two merely took notes. Jaime does do what he wants, mainly Cersei, but the reputation that Jaimes his fathers kind of care free psychopath is solely based off of kingslaying. So Tywin doesn't understand why Jaime follows rules, after all he's not just a care free Lannister but a care free kingslayer Lannister. His upbringing and reputation thusly mixes into something hysterical. Jamie will follow the rules because he wants to, not because he respects them. He will save KL and refuse it's justification, hand the IT to Ned and laugh in his face, pushes a kid for Cersei and refuses to war on the kids family, because he wants to. Despite of, or really because of, who he his, Jaime naturally refuses all logic and at the height of Lannister power and at a time nearest it's extenction Jaime will manage the affairs of the West while refusing to ever becoming it's lord. Because he wants to. Tywin never planned for twins so until Jaime grew yay tall it was easier to treat the kids the same. But one day they handed Jaime a sword and like a dress to Cersei, this is kind of a big deal because that sword killed Aerys. Cersei too, does whatever she wants. Mainly Jaime. After all, Jaime doing whatever Jaime wanted has worked wonders! House Lannister is now stronger then ever, stronger even then Tywins do whatever he wants approach. So she doubles down. She takes the throne. Twice. And it's around time for number three. This time it'll be different. This time she won't have hair, although there may be some other startling differences. Cersei used to use spies, then she realized they're pretty bad. She used to use Hands, that didn't work out either. For now Cersei has a king, we'll see if she continues too in the future. But the present is now and the lack of Tywins presence has presently presented Cersei an unprecedented present. A Lordship. Despite Cerseis overwhelming treason not one member of the Lannister inner circle or it's Westeros neighbors has questioned the Lady's control of the Rock. When Jaime got the blood colored, err, golden sword, Cersei got like needle and thread or something. I would be curious what Tywin gave the other kid, if I wasn't so sure it was nothing. No swords, no needles. So he watches his father, his brother and his sister. He sees what works and what does not, and Tyrion most certainly learned is that he can do, whatever. he. wants. It's unwise to create a monster when you should be creating an heir, Tywin created three. Whether house Lannister falls to Cersei or Tyrion or to it's death it will be because of Tywin.
  15. Shits gross. I said its the most disgusting thing in asoiaf, which it totally is lol. Not sure if it's terrifying as we don't see it in real time and only hear about Tywins mad dog through Jaime's pov For sure. The power of the masses in the oppositions hand is awful. Know your goal and wait. Recognize the hated figures and pounce. All evils are now on this figure and it's man's duty to annahilate it. By fulfilling the oppositions only goal. I swear I saw a maester's chain on Jan 6th. Terrifying doesn't begin to address it. Anyway, enough politics, Yo, mad scary! But I'm not scared for Aeron (screw that guy) nor for posthumous Vargo or some two hundred year old dead dragons. I'm a Stark kinda guy. (and Lanns and Targ) but I never thought I was a Sansa guy, until I saw her with one leg out the moon door. Imo Lysa takes the cake as the scariest, I legit thought the main character of asosif was going to die. (I'm totally a Sansa Stark kinda guy these days)
  16. Yea I think that's it, it's not in Walders interest to jump in bed with Robb, leave it at an engagement. He can always cancel the wedding if things go bad, like say, Ramsay destroys his home and he loses the Karstarks. (Anyone really thinks Walder would have acted the same if those things did not happen... anyone lol?) They got Arya for that
  17. "He's been eating rats," said the second boy. "Look." The first boy laughed. "He has. That's funny." LoL. I think so too. It's disgusting, but funny disgusting, not disgusting disgusting. "One of the captives was always begging food," Rafford admitted, "so Ser said to give him roast goat. The Qohorik didn't have much meat on him, though. Ser took his hands and feet first, then his arms and legs." "The fat bugger got most, m'lord," Shitmouth offered, "but Ser, he said to see that all the captives had a taste. And Hoat too, his own self. That whoreson 'ud slobber when we fed him, and the grease'd run down into that skinny beard o' his."
  18. One more try? That's a believable sentence. Two princes seals should mean something for an honorable Prince like Doran
  19. That's not a real war though, and we're discussing all of asoiaf @Thandros made some good cases here, (about lots of stuff) but to reiterate, we call it the Napoleonic war with hindsight, but back in the day they might call like the Egyptian expedition the Napoleonic war, which is really misleading What revolutionary wars? Latin America in the early 19th? Europe in 1849? They're all different. Similar, true, but different wars. And then there's the 7 year war, as @Thandros said, that's fun. So in American grade school we learned of our origin story war, it's called the French and Indian War, because that's all we care about lol. So in conclusion, Starks and Greyjoys wouldn't call it the war of 5, they'd call it independence or something It's not a different theater man, it's Westeros. And what does South America have to do with anything? Simon Bolivar led practically the entire continent in revolution, it was the theater. Beric was leading the charge during the climax of the war No, but if the nazis won in 56 I'd reevaluate But their message and subjects will be Why not? Ironborn are the only group of Westerosi to historically occupy another kingdom. Plus there's really no chance the trio is making it out the north unscathed It's extremely convoluted, with holes. (Sansa and Jeyne are friends) also the timings not that off, late asos and early adwd could be less then a month The first chapter Tywin is in in asos has him plotting the rw The gate breakers are on one side, the battle on the other. Hours pass, the gate doesn't brake. Therefore we can summarize that the gate breakers failed I recommend citing the specific quote Its stated that Tyrion won Blackwater He knew Pete would win them over They're commanders of KL resistance forces, just cuz Jacelyn was murdered doesn't mean everyone was Even a broken clock is right twice a day I was joking... buuut, if they're not human then they're a dumb beast lol
  20. There's only so much blame to go around though, he knows he sent Quentyn, a boy he hardly knows, down the dragons gullet. Like, what's the surprise? His wife could have told him this would happen, if she hadn't left him already for these poor fathering type shenanigans It'd be interesting if Doran goes ape over Quentyn though, especially because it's in such contrast to the Red Viper who Doran was kind of a father too (a much older brother/guardian) But I'm pretty convinced that Doran, Tatters and Barristans govt (hopefully with Dany) will join together before striking at Westeros
  21. Gregors land is like a half a tower, but no. Kg hold no lands, like outlaws. I'm sure he suspected. They all kinda know So, they're the like same person. Except one can eat the other. He's a monster, nauseating to talk to let alone look at, but he refuses to live in the shadows. He also acknowledges the absurdity of his world and laughs at it. Meeting himself is too much. It is a two way street, Tyrion can't stand Joffreys dog either. Speaking of Joff, he's no help in the liking Tyrion department, Sansa either on account of him being madly in love with her. But I'd say it fundamentaly boils down to pretty much everyone hates Tyrion and Sandor pretty much hates everyone so there you go
  22. Yeah, a knights oath means something. Plus before Quentyn died he told Tatters that even if he dies Doran will honor their agreement, then they notarized it with their princely seals. (Lol Barris memory, she totally laughed in his face) It'll be interesting when they hear about Aegon for sure, but still, those two have seen dragons and only a fool would bet against them There's nothing to forgive though. Like Quentyns uncle before him, he was not murdered. He has every reason to be sad and angry, but only at himself. For being an absent father and expecting his son to accomplish an impossibility.
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