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Hugorfonics

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  1. If he was Gilly's baby then maybe, or Selyses. I can't think of the corresponding quotes to bring up atm either but the head steward is in charge of logistics, so it's naturally his jurisdiction to decide how much they eat, where they sleep, etc But the watchmen in CB were largely and publicly anti snow not long ago, how much could they have changed? The Queens men won't (well, legally shouldn't) mess with the politics of the NW It appears that your right. I hope this scenario is what happened because I appreciate the irony of Jon telling Patrek to steal her Maybe, probably. I mean, what was Sam gonna do? I do think, for the sake of not getting murdered, Jon needed more friends but I also suspect that the mission he sent them on (specifically Sam but probably all of them, although tbh I have no idea where Green Pyp or Edd went) is going to be super important for the longevity of Westeros and even humanity I agree, it's easy to blame Alliser
  2. I dont think so. Shes not the murderous type, lol except for all those people she burns and/or shadowbabies, but still, thats more Stannis and shes just acting like the kings justice. I cant see Melisandre having so little control of her emotions that she'll take a mans life for the sole sake of vengance.
  3. Been a while since I read either. Jon has guards? I thought he kept refusing that suggestion from Mel. Ah, word. iirc they were more like doormen then Jons personal guard. Specifically I dont think Jon personally appointed them (like he did with Leathers) thusly throwing their loyalty into suspect. Right on Main street. (I will never get tired of the lone star being disrespected by the giant lol) The lines are interesting, somehow Ive never focused on them. Theyre practically in battle position lol. Patrik and Wun Wun put on a show, most eyes in CB (like Jons) is on them. Marsh then takes center stage and FortheWatches. Was this on cue? Its not difficult to imagine a scenario where bigoted bowen tells the queens men that the giant doesnt respect Rhllor or something. However it is difficult to imagine the Steward, known craven and not a fool, kinglsaying like Jaime Lannister because he feels bad for Patrik, or Ramsay for that matter. This all seems planned, Marsh knows what hes doing hence the tears. I dont believe the next part of his plan will be either hide in the linen closet, or simply die. Word, I just wanted to stress the word minimum. It hasnt been that long since Jon won the election despite receiving few CB votes (those largely went to Janos) and since then hes sent most of his allies away (Grenn, Pyp, Sam, etc) I think Bowen will be fine, for now. He personally was in charge of the kids so Im assuming if the wildlings kill him now then their kids are gone for sure, the queens men with all their steel and warhorses do not take part of the innerworkings of the NW (although Selyse is a wildcard) The NW needs an election, Mallister and Pyke may want to kill Marsh and the traitorous dogs of CB but their previous lord made it complicated inviting all these wildlings and queens men in the castle too. While neither loved Jon neither seemed to despise him either and I do think they have loyalty to Jon which would make them want to war on Marsh, however like most asoiaf folk their ambition will outweigh their loyalty and they will want to be all cordial and democratic so they themselves can be LC . Rory and Horse, theres just so little information about them, like Wick, that I dont want to assume anything, so I naturally assume the worst. But Leathers can scrap and had love for his LC, theres no doubt, so I think hes gonna be a big character at the Snowless Wall.
  4. He didn't tho, it was right outside of the hall after Jon's big speech. In front of the Queens men and such. Jon's assassination was very public Certainly not unanimous but it's minimum at four I don't think everyone is as bigoted as Bowen, only most. But I dont think anyone is as spineless and cowardly as Bowen Marsh, which makes me wonder how? What was the steward thinking? A lifelong coward doesn't just turn assassin, especially without a backup plan. He's got their kids, if the Wildlings attack Marsh or leave the Wall the hostages are done for. The wildlings will be pissed, but Bowen is safe, for now.
  5. (Barri too) You think Renly was stretching the truth? Possible, but from Cerseis thoughts it sounds like the "take whatever you want" was a thing. Um, nah. Ill stay up here on my high horse thank you very much. Its muddy down there. Yo I could give a shit less what some fictitious septon thinks about anything (although one had good insight on the concept, broken men), Cersei didnt consent. But this isnt treasonous, just spousal abuse, its not affecting the realm (although...), granted the other girls arent either, although if I were to guess Id say it was in the dozens. No but as king its his duty to recognize murder, not dismiss it as dragonspawn Too little too late (reminds me of Hoster blubbering to Lysa on his death bed, too late for that honey, plus you barking up the wrong tree) (I mean its not that I even respect Roberts cruelty, this was the work of Varys and Petyr. Varys needs to give his girl a shove and LF just likes fucking around. Its not like either would willfully help Ned if it wasnt too late. Which i really think it was, Ned had two legs back then, so much happens in between the events its gotta be time up.) Ned thought if Robert found out hed kill Jon. True or False? Like hiding babies at birth from the paranoid king is literally tyranny on a biblical scale, the bar looks pretty high from here (although ill give you its actually pretty low, he inherited the kingdom from a line that thought they were lizard people) You keep saying that, Im not sure what it means. I mean the most famous tyrant ever got stabbed more then 2060 years ago. He was generous too. This is the kings only job. Do his best to pacify 7 kingdoms of barbarians from murdering each other. If the king is seen as preferential too much then his lords will take matters into their own with their private armies. Whats this got to do with them? Besides, they do. They just dont see anything else either. No body likes eating Bowl o Brown (except that kid for some reason) (Quick nitpick- Careless? She was so incognito that even the local bartender didnt recognize her, and thats the Riverlands very own cat. The chances of Tyrion straight up waddling up to her table and into her world is so astronomically small, and that only went down because of his life long ambition of pissing off the edge of the world) Ok cool, rings a bell. Cool name, but lacking theory. Tyrion would say he saw Cat (her dads sick, she can visit the RL) and this would mean all out war, but arresting Tyrion means peace? Hostage is good, right, but hostages are better, Ned and girls, 1 does not equal 3. Cats not a general, Hoster never taught her the art of war and Robb never asked her to draw battleplans. (This never seemed to bother her) Shes not thinking in the terms of hostages shes thinking in the terms of attempted murdererr. She can get Lem to do a whole lot more to his brother For sure, Lysas a curve ball if ever Wait, what? Sandor protests and was found innocent, the reasoning was that Roberts ruling was interpreted as "precious" Robert decreeing that the royal prince was struck by Mycha. (he only needed 6 true knights) Like, you dont see anything? While Robert abused his system, Lysa was trying to break it using murder and lies. Shes different. Imp can handle some more mockery Theres enquiries and theres interrogation. Obviously the type Tyrion received would have killed him (like Lysa wanted) but theres a line between allowing the most powerful son and brother loose and, you know killing him. I mean simple small talk wont do, Lannisters lie. Thats why Catelyn wanted him in court. Ned has his book to play with, dance teachers to hire, having a serious talk with Sansas on the list (Jon too). The mans busy. Cats on the ground launching her own investigation, one thats (probably) known to be later fully endorsed by the Hand of the King. Nothing, just saying Rober was unacceptable to many. I feel like weve been talking a decent amount of Cat Thats the word and approval of the kings two ministers (the only ones that actually work) The knife is the evidence for the case. But his weakness foolishness and misguidance caused the conflict. His repeated insistences of promoting his favorite and refusal to placate the offended party led to the conflict. Nah, theyre all miserable. See I wish I could just leave the joke like that, but there were definitely people back in the day who loved their absolute king (I mean, they could still be miserable) but like, King John was labeled a tyrant for his favoritism so was King Charles (I mean they did other stuff too, but favoritism im pretty sure was a predominant issue). Im not following. Yes, it is fairly damning? The people are praying to Catelyn. Like, by the villages. And apparently she wants communes, although if she has a bill of rights shes definitely missing the 8th. The fight wasnt against Robert, just his heirs, and Frey too I suppose Robert didnt send him out and hes dead, the entire mythos of the brotherhood was a laughable facade (Sandor laughed, though hes got and extensive sense of humor) until Cat gave it a new life. The books are 21st material though (well, actually...) theyre for us, and beyond. I gotta call what I see. And the idea of living in anarchy and helping folks is like Robin Hood shit, tyranny is some ancient Greek word about Zeus or something
  6. Drogon Rhaegar and Viserion? Does that count or do they have to be mammals? Like the Direwolves, although they were sextuplets
  7. About as serious as they'll take Alayne Stone. Which is not, until they keep winning battles in which case, is
  8. If you don't think that quote is alarming and utterly hypocritical, well I don't really feel sorry for you cuz I don't know you, but I'm kinda bummed out about humanity. Kinda, it's no big deal He's a character Murder, cruelty, dark magic, his mission to kill all rival gods despite the culture shock, grinding teeth I'm public I've given plenty of examples of Roberts egregious behaviors (rapes, murder, terrifying Ned to raise his nephew, disrespect of laws), just because nobody in the book does, like with the others doesn't make it a whataboutism. I think everyone does, or should, except the king. As far as abuse of power or favoritism, absolutely, core parts of any tyrannical regime. I'm not a fan of inequality, but I wouldn't call it tyranny. Or maybe Robert always owned it and it was never in Tyrions or Petyrs possession.... She arrested Tyrion to throw the Lannisters off? I'm sorry, I'm not following. Um, I'm not. In Westeros? Beric can conclude a trial in like 15 seconds. Besides the evidence is there. Cat has a knife in her scarred up hand, the kings quartermaster would say oh that's mine, and then Tyrion would be exonerated and the case would continue. I don't think kings have to be tyrants. I can name some the certainly aren't, Robb and Dany (I guess that's it lol). And even then I suppose they dabble in tyranny too. (More Robb then Dany, even if I approve of those actions) Everyone in Westeros finds Robert acceptable? See it's blanket statements like that that you gotta look out for. Balon Greyjoy does nor did not find Robert acceptable, the entire Iron Islands shared his belief. Dorne and it's princes and princesses do not find Robert acceptable, that Darry who had Targaryen curtains kicked under the sofa does not find Robert acceptable. I thought we were discussing Robert. But whatever, let's discuss Cat. (Even though last post I said I wasn't talking about a different cat, lol. Does GRRM mean to be this clever all the time) (also you keep saying there isn't evidence, but of course there is) Lannister is on a roll, since pretty much usurping the govt they have poisoned her brother in law, frightened her sister and nephew into hiding, harmed her daughter, threatened her other daughter and husband and now she has the chance to nail them for when they tried to violently murder her son, twice. And you think the situation needs deescalation ? It appears that Lannister won't be happy till the world's crimson, if she didn't make a stand now it may be too late. Yea I mean medieval monarchies and tyranny often go hand in hand, maybe it's the hat? (Although that scepter must serve some purpose) If upon hearing "you can have whatever you want" he just has sex with their daughters right then and there is not a criticism of substance then I guess we're just at an impass on what constitutes an acceptable head executive. There's certainly no representative assembly, I'd say it's even older then magna carta, if I were to guess the only law Aegon made would be a line stolen from his descendant "the dragon feeds on horse and sheep alike". Westeros was off to a good start. It would not. You don't have to read Voltaire to realize the king doesn't care about you. Beric and later Catelyn are leading a people's revolution in Westeros now. This is a massive amount of the population dedicated to feeding the people, caring for the orphans, and most certainly, fighting Westerosi tyranny
  9. That's my general line of thinking. But just because there used to be Others doesn't really mean people know about them. Like, Others exist now, for a few decades at minimum. Rangers like Benjin know this but don't tell the powerful lords like Ned (who's surly heard that Others are a thing from the countless of decapitated) because telling somebody zombies are a thing gets you committed. Like Jorah, a student of history can stare at dragon bones and be like "nah". So why does some Dornishman (not his wife) serve the NW if he's probably never seen an Other before, let alone a wight or a cold breeze? If I were to guess why dictator LC was so powerful I'd say it's because they were probably Starks and fan skinchange and stuff, magic can be handy after all
  10. In the long ago times I think the LC was probably dictator of the realms, and probably under no obligation to be neutral. I believe some people got irritated from this situation and left the NW to what it is now, as @Lord Varys correctly summarizes (Also while this person may have been a Stark (everyone seemed to be) he also may have been southron. The Watch is a Westerosi institution, not strictly a Northern one.)
  11. Juvenile slander. Nor made against the royal household. Plus Petyr has pull, his reputation of creating money from nothing is seen as near magical. (It's just credit lol, whole world works on it, well not their world I guess).
  12. It's a tricky situation. From my understanding the NW is only fit to be slaves of every kingdom in Westeros or it's overlord dictator. With out neutrality means theyre playing the game themselves, and the game famously has no middle ground I also don't really understand how CB was neutral for thousands of years with hundreds of random kingdoms and now the idea is just a non starter
  13. I wish I could Nonsense, huh? When was Aerys called a tyrant? Or Cersei, Tywin, Joffrey, Euron, Stannis? Theres no bill of rights. Guilty till proven innocent is the way the laws work. And there are adequate grounds, he was pointed out by the corresponding authorities that Tyrion was the guilty party Why do you think this? Any random witness like the king or Jaime, presumably others, would recognize the knife instantly and would say it never belonged to Tyrion, so day 1 of the trial? Most things in Westeros shouldnt be No, its not. Which is why the rulers back then were so quick to wear the label tyrant. Like Louis XVI or George III, they werent that bad tbh (compared to contemporaries), but theyre still unacceptable I know the song. And who are you, the proud lord said That I must bow so low? But we're not discussing a different cat, nor a shopkeeper, but a Stark. I have no doubt that Lannister is above the law in terms of, well, Mycha. But I aint talking about Mycha. Brandon Stark, his name is synonymous with Westeros itself, he aint below nothing. Neither was JonA. Family Duty Honor, Lannister is not above the law of great lords Two families were at conflict, Gregor started a war and Berics probably on his twelfth life by now. Id say shit hit the fan when Eddard died, that got Robb crowned and Stannis and Balon too, and brought into the war thusly making it a whole Westerosi war. You know your coming up with a lot words that I think are just sugar coating the actions of a tyrant, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar
  14. He climbed onto the throne on the skulls of Aegon and his sister, if you think that's cool then fine. And asking rando Westerosi how they feel about current events just gets you characters like All For Joffrey. He's obstructing justice. Catelyn's hand scars are real enough, a crime was committed and justice demands answers. There's a knife that according to the kings councilors was in possession of Tyrion, in fact he gives the time and place Tyrion supposedly acquired the murder weapon. The fact that the piece of evidence is known by almost all peers when roughly described is just hysterical. I'll give you guys this, LF got plot armor. His schemes are half ass and deteriorate most of the time before completion. Ned was just kind of an idiot Can't have a trial without a defendant. Lannister is not above the law. Jaime acts like it is, Cersei thinks it is and Tywins insists it is, but they're not. They're all the kings subjects and subjugated to the same laws as everyone else. I disapprove of Tywin and Cerseis govts as well, I think that goes without saying Truly. What makes it funnier is Tyrion is my favorite character in the entirety of fiction. Tywin already sent in his troops, Edumre called in his banners, shit was already popping. Was the long night in Dorne? Because there's riots on the streets of Sunspear. Princesses in towers, princes being burnt in Essos. And that's the chill land. The Reach is about to be blasted by the Ironborn, veterans who've done a good job raping the north now looking south, and then all the other kingdoms that are virtually on fire. I mean, Riverlands alone, we're talking about non stop atrocious, both sides tearing at the same land. As if there were two sides, more like twenty. There's a reason GRRM decided for his epic to take place now, shits positively WW1 Asked to look at the evidence, and upon seeing the knife ordering the arrest of Petyr. Instead of throwing a temper tantrum which is accomplished nothing but was rather amusing
  15. So, not to defend Joffrey, (although I'm afraid I'm doing that) but he didn't kill Lady (neither did Cersei if you wanna get technical) As for trying to kill Mycha and possibly Arya, he's a stupid drunk pre teen. What 12 year old on his first date with a cute girl and a wineskin acts rationally? Before ascending Joffrey seems to have screws loose, no doubt (I think he gets worse and worse in the next two books), but Petyr and Tywin think that the child just needs to be raised by not Cersei and he may come out fine Far to late. The best time would be after Tyrions abduction and the end of Neds investigation, before he visited Gendry and broke his leg. Or after that. Not during the climax of the altercation. Lancel would make sure that Robert hunts boar, and with the cocktail Robert was chugging it's obvious Robert will choose the more dangerous path. Or perhaps Lancel would just adjust his kings stirrups and watch the driver under influence get into an accident. His best friends son, if he found out who his parents were he'd kill them all. I'm not sure why you don't think he dabbles in tyranny. But then Catelyn changed her mind There's the knife. That's all the evidence the court would need to find Petyr guilty of obstruction and Joffrey of attempt murder. A suspected attempted murder acts like nothing is wrong despite being pointed by two of the kings direct counselors, one being the mater of whisperers. Does justice stop because Tyrion has a famous last name? Funny how it works on opposite sides of the spectrum too History is filled with disappointments. And tyrants. (Reminds me of Bleeding Kansas, 19th century, Nebraska and Kansas vote their destiny. Nebraska votes slavery, ok, and Kansas votes... Well since all the Nebraskans walked across state lines and voted in drove then it looks like Kansas votes slavery too. Despite more votes coming in yes then residents of Kansas. So Congress makes them both slave states, and expects everyone to be cool. The last thing they want is civil war right? Well fuck that, time for fire&blood, time for bleeding Kansas. The purity of laws matter, so does common morality. And then of course total civil war directly follows in the years to come.) But he didn't prevent anything, right? Westeros is in the middle of it's worst war in it's 10k year history I feel bad for Jory and them, but as Duncan eloquently puts it, it's just a pissing match. The arrest of Tyrion is the catalyst of Roberts reign, and he handled it so spectacularly horrendously.
  16. I meant when he told Petyr to bribe Janos. His real last act was I guess dishonorable, but most could tell there were some strings being pulled. Or at least Jon thought he was murdered. Not sure he would do anything to keep his daughters safe though, in fact im sure he didnt. His daughters painful stories in asoiaf is because he brought them into the lions den and kept them there even when he knew it wasnt safe Joff didnt do anything. The two others either (I mean, Joff aint great), besides Ned kept Joff as the groom even when he knew the Lannisters were responsible for the attempt on Bran, and JonA. Way after he found out about Joffs character in the Lady fiasco. Lol, Stannis doesnt know that stuff though. He thinks its just petty white collar corruption (I mean there was talk of witnesses being found dead the morning of the trial, so maybe some blue collar too) Yea maybe. Hes certainly no friend. Who knows? Itd help if we knew his goals like destroy Winterfell for instance, but all he says is he never wants to go there. In asos we see how quick his plans change depending on Tyrions sense of humor. So if all he wants is to be a high official then his plan with Ned seems beneficial to him. For what its worth, I dont think he thought anyone, let alone Eddard, would find out about Jons murder. Lysas insecurities is the only reason Sansa found out. He lied to Cat and repeatedly played her like a fool, but I dont think he ever betrayed her, unless you count Ned. As for grooming, yeesh, fucking guy. Hes certainly sick, but I think like Illyrio his pedophile plans must take a back seat to his ambition so I believe all the grooming he will do will be the old fashioned kind, like telling her all people are chess pieces and the worlds hers for the taking. I think hes got substance to him, hes not that archevil guy hes portrayed as, even though hes certainly responsible for most terrible and future terrible things to happen to Westeros I speak emphatically Yea thats a word for it. I think it beats around the bush a bit though. Hes a disappointment. You dont have to be mythical to have these qualities, why look at Dany, the mother of dragons lol. Hes far from Aerys or Joffrey, but hes far from acceptable either. I mean the very much alive khalissi He has a SC of yes men and Ned. Its possible to be cruel and stupid at the same time Thats funny, right? I thought that too. But letting a suspected attempted murderer, and with possible information about the murder of the greatest lord (ever?) go because he wants a blowjob? (we all know Cersei isnt giving it up) Its not that hes right, its that Tyrions innocent. But to disregard the law like that, (because he thinks he can, like Aerys, as if he Aerys wasnt touchable) when dealing with highly sensitive issues is straight tyrannical. And if there was a trial? Then everything in the world would be set right, LF and Joff would go down hard, thats another thing thats funny.
  17. I think he did rather nicely for himself. Piece of shit, hope he's burning in all 7 hells put together. Lol. I used to get upset when Edumre kept missing the shot, too vain to let Brynden take a go. Now I grin ear to ear, thata boy Edumre! Hoster who started off on the lower end of great lords became father in law to the two greatest lords of the realm (although not Tywin powerful they are Roberts adopted family thusly powerful in another regard. Of course Tywin disapproves and decides to become father in law to the king). I mean for all the shit he gives Walder, Hoster knows how to bargain. What's a girl or twos happiness for the price of becoming a great lord?
  18. Ned was kind of an idiot Hoster was kind of a jackass In the end he chooses dishonor Sure, but who wouldn't do that? I mean to just pave the way to death? Might as well just jump and get it over with. Im not sure, I tend lean harder that Petyr was being sincere. And I kinda think Catelyn was a reason for that. (I mean, LF woulda ate nicely in this deal too.) Idk, Robert may not be a tyrant but his brother certainly looks the part, chopping all these heads up and burning all these gods and what not. Stannis on the throne and the realm bleeds, you don't need to be venal to object to that. What shit? The book? Charming guy Call it what you want but it's ordering a hit on a pregnant child, kings are supposed to be virtuous and just, brave and honorable, not whatever Robert is. And if we're talking about national security then pissing off the most powerful khal ever is not a good decision. It can lead to, well worst case scenario, Dany. Its really the knife that gets me. Ordering Tyrions release without calling for a trial is just blatantly flipping off the rule of law. When kings do that it's tyrannical.
  19. Indeed. From that outlook he betrays Catelyn spectacularly Ok, but that'd be signing his death sentence. Stannis makes it clear to Janos that because of his and Petyrs corruption that without evidence he would have executed him. Its almost guaranteed that if LF brought the legitimate heir on the throne it'd mean his death. Instead Petyr argued that Ned should become the most powerful man in Westeros, when Ned refused everything but Stannis he played Petyrs hand for him. (why Ned didn't go straight to Janos or why he thought the gold cloaks only move through bribery is another smh Eddard moment) Loyal? He's a traitor. Charismatic and generous, sure. I guess, Stannis would disagree The mass rape is hard to look past, showing up to any dudes house and just pointing at rando daughter, if it's not tyranty it's certainly in the making. Idk, when he shows up to councils it's either to plan on spending 1/3 of the treasury on a party idolizing his kingdom or to spend an additional third on the assassination of a pregnant child. Then there's the whole knife fiasco and his blatant backing of Lannister, proving to himself and his court that he has as much regard for the law as Aerys did
  20. It's got nothing to do with luck, Robert was a ticking time bomb. Binge drinking and playing with swords, not a good combo. Lannister knows their king. Give him a little responsibility and he'll be sprinting for the door before you have a chance to say Rhaegar Targaryen. He'd wake up wanting to hunt, and drink, although he'd still probably be a little buzzed. He hasn't been sober in years. Like tourney fighting, even dubbed is an insane fucking thing to do! You know Demarius Thomas? Ex NFL star? Dude was a machine, and he recently and tragically passed away from CTE. If football can do that, so can tourneys. And then boar hunting? Like he's not Obelix. Gauls got that potion, not chardonnay spiked with 151. Lysa certainly changed. She may have always had mental health issues (or at least since her forced abortion) but she's clearly now lost. Even wishing harm on her sisters family. Roberts hard to look at any time and not picture a lethargic asshole tyrant in the making, perhaps Ned never saw him clearly? Petyr, honestly, did everything in his power to help Ned. It was only with Eddards insistence that Stannis becomes king, which would almost definitely mean the death sentence for LF, that Petyr decided to betray Ned.
  21. Stannis needs Renlys men. Not Renly himself. And when that fails, Stannis kills him. How would this scenario be different? That's true, but he refused to go to Lysa with bowl in hand as well, and she has now crown to speak of But he can't, because the armies of Dragonstone consist of firshermen. He needs the Stormlands might to march to KL It's probable. We never hear of Stannis getting any of Neds letters which isn't a surprise at all because Tyrion discovers Pycelles blatant treachery. It's beyond any reasonable doubt that Pycelle is tampering with the mail. Stannis thought they'd get murdered, and he already makes it clear that Robert won't believe him. It may be a sorry excuse but he believes it. No, that was Renly and Robb. Define prevailing? KL is near civil war, Stormlands are at civil war (but KL isn't involved lol) and while the Riverlands and Winterfell is subdued (lol, not really) the rest of the north isn't, let alone Dorne IronIslands and the Vale. Davos tells his king in so many words, Westeros is bigger then the red keep I think it's realistic writing, knowing Stannis' paranoia and the lack of his political skill. He's got other areas where his brilliance shines however, notably in battle command
  22. Right, because they correctly summarize that the Baratheons will war till they win or lose, not because they like swore an oath to never share the same sky Yes, which is why Robb and Stannis try. Also Renly never says his intent is to destroy house Lannister, and lastly I'm pretty sure JonA had the biggest army marshalled in Westeros history. (Mance too, but he's slightly outside the 7 kingdoms so maybe doesn't count) But he's not, right? He's fighting Robb. Gendry. And that book about different hairstyles or something After the fact, like Stannis and Davos. King may be pissed he was circumvented, but the jobs complete now and the king has been saved
  23. Like what? All I can think of is becoming Hand There is no later, if Renly says no then he's an enemy. I don't think he knows that, whatever, it's not about moral right it's about steel. If Stannis takes the throne it'll be because of war, he does know that. Maybe. But we're still time skipping stuff. Stannis' first step is to the Stormlands, if they're neutral today there's a war tomorrow Like, this is all in the book. Stannis was paranoid and every letter he would send like all that Ned sent would have been intercepted by Pycelle. He also knew this was a hard sell because he'd magically become heir and everyone already hates him. Wars is inevitable, this is Tywin we're talking about Doesn't matter. Hardly anyone showed up to the coronation, short a Summer Island Prince and Sansa. I don't believe anything they say. Besides they never say that they'll refuse to ever make peace with Baratheon. Stannis wasn't nearly the threat Robb was, for sure. Sometimes there's good reasons to ignore stuff till later, not saying it's the worst strategy Because Renly was hardly a threat, totally perceptible to negotiations. Eventually, after Robb ran circles around him. Much unlike Tyrions prediction No it it's not man! What words? That Tywin wishes he had more time before dealing with Stannis? Obviously, it's fucking Stannis. But just because they expect the probable doesn't mean they're going to chase every windmill they see. No one would believe him. I reckon. If it was like Davos, he's a good talker. Stannis is able to see reason, especially after the fact
  24. Definitely sending Davos. And then what? Either Renly submits or not. In theory, and in practice, Renly controls the Stormlands, true. But legally, and in Stannis' mind, theyre all the kings men. All men must stay loyal to the trueborn king is one of those fun and hypocritical Stannis quotes. He told Jon, the most powerful man these past 20 years. He didnt expect Jon to get murdered (let alone a framed murder) Word, theres no doubt that the OP is on to something, Renly acted prematurely. And while Stannis acted too late it was because of unforeseen events like the murder of Jon, ascension of Renly and I think the biggest game changer/curve ball, the execution of Ned and consequently The Young Wolfs campaign.
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