StepStark

I don't think that watching a show you don't really like is in any way less reasonable than discussing internet posts of people whose opinion you disapprove. Sometimes you're just interested in something you don't appreciate.

Really? I dislike something because it's not the same as in the books? Care to elaborate? Since you seem to know more about me than even I do apparently, I want to hear all of it.

I'm not new at all, quite the opposite, but what show lovers usually perceive as "book purism" is most usually not that at all, but they prefer to see it that way in order to ignore the legitimate critique of their favorite show.

Maybe you are right, but I don't know of any such case in this forum. I have never seen a poster here who dislikes the show just because he's not able to separate it from the books. While many people obviously go into the episode with a pre-conceived notion that it is going to be awesome, and their whole intent is to try to find things to cheer for and like.

That's why I said that one should try to bring some perspective, and it goes without saying that I had some objective perspective in mind. Now of course, nothing is completely objective and that's why it is fun to debate different opinions, but it doesn't mean that anything can pass. If "everything is subjective" then you're essentially subscribing to absurdist point of view where nothing makes any sense because even sense is subjective. So just to be clear, I'm not denying that there will always be some subjectivity to every rating (and I'm definitely NOT advocating for robots!), but that ratings rooted only in subjectivity shouldn't be taken seriously.

And yet when one day you welcome your own child to this world, then everything else pales in comparison. But rating a show isn't the same as experiencing your own life, is it? Rating a show should be more cerebral, but you obviously disagree, because you say that it's "a subjective view". Tell me then, what does it mean even? Are you okay with anything then, because anything can be subjective? If someone rates every single episode 10, are you okay with it? And also, if someone rates every episode 1? Because by your logic, you should be okay with both, because it's a subjective view, right? And really, you need a bigger scale? How wold that solve this problem, I wonder, because even on scale 1-100, there'd be people who rate many episodes with 100. And what about the other end of the scale? By your logic, we would need to go below zero too. So please, try to bring some perspective into commenting and rating. Perspective other than your pure subjective pleasure at a given moment, that is. That was my point, that perspective was and is missing from many of those 10 ratings. Because if you can't even imagine how a 10 episode should look like in a show with this budget and this setting and this source material to draw from (regardless of whether you read the books or not, by now you should be aware of the story that is the basis for GOT), then you're seriously lacking a perspective.

Oh but all those 10s that people regularly give are realistic and objective? What a hypocrisy, to say the least. Even last week there were people who rated episode 3 with 10. So how are those people going to rate episode 4? 20? 100? LOL!!! I don't get all this whining of show lovers, you always seem to feel like victims somehow, even though the show is clearly overrated as hell. I have hard time understanding 10s even for this episode, because the episode had very serious issues, even in the battle scene (but the battle was very exciting and well done in general), but okay, for the sake of argument let's say that this is an episode that deserves 10. But what about all the previous episodes that received all those 10s? Doesn't that actually prove that the show has been hugely overrated for quite some time? This episode that contains the best action scene in the show's history clearly proves that the show is overrated, because retrospectively all those previous "perfect scores" look ridiculous.

It was a fitting conclusion to a terrible season, because it was somewhat more interesting than the previous nine episodes, but it was still a disastrous hour of television. Not a single scene in the episode had any logic whatsoever, to the point where even that prostitute doesn't care about being paid for her service of Pycelle (it's classical D&D, they just adore hookers don't accepting money for their trouble, LOL). The only scene that didn't insult my intelligence was the conversation between Jaime and Walder. It doesn't mean that it was a good scene, because it wasn't, but at least it wasn't ridiculously stupid. Lena's acting is much appreciated from what I see, but I can't tell why, since she doesn't act at all, which is again fitting because she does appear to be D&D's muse and she can do (or not do) whatever the hell she wants. My biggest complain is the shoehorning of book moments into scenes that can never belong to the book universe. What is the point of having Frey pies without Manderley and without the entire background that make Frey pies so huge in the books? What is the point of having Pycelle murdered separately by little birds, when that entire plotline was already changed so heavily (as if all the other plotlines weren't too, LOL)? I'm giving the episode a 2, just because of the effort. Cersei's wildfire coup is D&D's usual idiocy in regards to logic, but at least they committed some time in designing it. Unlike they usual "twists", this one was planned ahead, which must have been a huge step for them. I suspect that, if they continue the progress, in ten years or so they'll be capable of writing decent scripts for Law and Order type of shows. ASOIAF, unfortunately for them, was and is much more than they could ever chew, but hey, at least they're learning.

If Littlefinger could give Sansa away from the Vale, the Lannisters have no excuse!

I'm going to honor this episode with a 10 if someone explains to me just this one logical fallacy: Why didn't the Lannisters give Tommen to the Boltons already? It seems to be the tradition in that world, to give your best asset to the Boltons. Last year Littlefinger gave them Sansa, now Umbers are giving them Rickon (and Osha, for some mysterious reason). What are the Lannisters waiting for? Where are their manners? In the meantime, I gave the episode a solid 3. I expected even worse episode, so I'm generous. Varys' scene saved it. It was decent, which is rare enough for this show.

It is very much the opposite case because it is you who isn't able to comprehend anything if you don't recognize logical fallacy in that scene. But luckily for you all you have to do and comprehend everything is just watch the following scene and everything will become clear.

So you have nothing to say except to be rude and ignorant? Congratulations! You're poster boy for D&D apologists.

You obviously don't process what you watch but at least you should start processing what you write. You see what you just wrote is pretty stupid and explains nothing about my question and that was: WHY IS THAT GUY EVEN HIDING? I mean of course that he sticks out when he is hiding in wall. But if he wasn't hiding he wouldn't sick out. LOL. You know in the scene after that one they are discussing what to do with that man and it is obvious that he didn't do anything. Barristan says it directly: We don't know what this man did or didn't do. So let go again: he didn't do anything and they also don't know that he ever did anything against Dany and his only crime is that he was hiding with masks and daggers... so: WHY WAS HE HIDING??? HELLO?

Really? And how do they know he is part of an insurgency? How can anyone know he is part of an insurgency? What gives him away? He dresses like everybody else LOL. Man this is priceless, this mental gymnastic people use to defend two poor writers. ONLY THING THAT GIVES THAT MAN AWAY IS THAT HE IS HIDING. SO IF HE WASN'T HIDING NOBODY WOULD KNOW HE IS IN INSURGENCY!!! Really, how hard it is to see truth that is so obvious?

What is really sad is this pathetic mental gymnastic you do in order to justify all the stupidity of the show. If show audience is like you, then D&D don't have to bother because whatever they put on screen you are going to love. They can revive Ned and have him rape some septas and youre going to be: OK, that's logical, people when are brought back from dead usually rape women, nothing strange about it. GRRM joked that D&D can bring aliens into his story if they want but I don't think it is joke for you and you probably wouldn't have anything against aliens from out of space invading Westeros. Just look your answers how absurd they are: 1) My question was about why would anybody write that forces are rising from outside. That was really not hard to understand. Saying everything is OK because Aemon heard it from the letter is pathetic really. Better to say you don't want to answer and admit you're defeated than to embarrass yourself with answer like that one. 2) So even your grandmother would write better scripts than D&D right? I mean she would say: "You will have one which won't make out of infancy and king will have 20 and you will have 3". That is much better than D&D, much better. 3) Now this is the most pathetic answer really. As first, how do you go inside wall? Tell me, I want to know. I always wanted to go inside wall but never made it. Where is door to inside wall? And even more important: WHY THE FUCK DOES HE HAS TO HIDE ANYWAY? WHY DOESN'T HE ONLY HIDES DAGGERS AND MASKS? WITHOUT DAGGERS AND MASKS THEY HAVE NOTHING ON HIM!!! SONS OF THE HARPY ARE ANONYMOUS, THAT IS WHY THEY HAVE MASKS, SO THEY CAN BE NOT SUSPICIOUS WITHOUT MASKS!!! 4) Wow, that's brilliant! Yes he obviously want to make a deal because why else would he bring sellsword Bronn with him? Why else would he go secretly to Dorne? Brilliant! And yeah, they are definitely not big plot points. Just, you know, Dorne is like Jaime's main arc this season and that stupidity with man hiding inside walls was the main think in episode 2. LOL!!!

Well I thought you are the champion of mental gymnastics around here but you obviously have good company.

Are you for real? Did you even think about what you answer? 1) Why would someone send letters from distance with false information? Why would anybody put something like that in letters? 2) You made that up because nobody said anything about some kids counted and some not. I don't know where people get this crazy ideas? 3) But so what if someone sees him outside of wall? So what if Daario and Grey Worm see him in the room? As long as he hides daggers and masks they have nothing on him. 4) What the fuck are you talking about? What diplomatic incident? There is no diplomacy in Westeros by the way but never mind because breaking such a deal as Robb knows very well always means war in feudal systems. 5) Cersei loves Jaime more than she loves herself and their children? Really? 6) Littelfinger knows that Boltons are the most despised family in The North as he says to Sansa but he doesn't know about Ramsay? That sounds logical to you? 7) Three hands against entire region? Yes, definitely no suicide, in Disneyland at least. 8) But why don't they kill Jaime while he is no his mission? That is the perfect cause for war from their perspective and nobody can say word against them, not even Doran. 9) So instead persuading Jon to accept Winterfell Sam decides to persuade entire Nights Watch to elect Jon? Does that sound logical to you? Try harder.

Part 2: Why doesn't Cersei kills Jaime for releasing Tyrion? Isn't Tyrion her biggest threat and to her children, and Jaime just released him? And she's OK with it? Littlefinger's plan is like the biggest crap I've seen on TV for a while. He either doesn't know who Ramsay is or he deliberately puts Sansa in hands of sadistic psychopaths. Neither makes any sense at all. Why Bronn accept to go with Jaime on suicide mission when he didn't want to fight Gregor for Tyrion because he avoids suicide missions? Sand Snakes find out Jaime is doing their job for them and he's going to start the war but they still stay with their original plan. Why is that so? Are they that stupid? Why Sam pushes Jon to accept Stannis's offer and only seconds later proposes Jon for the Lord Commander? Is Sam maybe trying to make Jon become both Lord of Winterfell and Lord Commander? Man, this show is so stupid I can do this till the end of days.

Aemon saying Dany is under siege makes no fucking sense at all. What siege? There is no siege in the show! Cersei prophecy mentioning only 3 kids when in the show she gave birth to four! Man hiding inside walls in Meereen. Please what logic can there possibly be in there? Why he fuck would anybody hide in walls with masks and daggers? How is Jaime planing not to start war once he kidnaps Myrcella and breaks the deal with Martels? And all this is just for starters.

It will be too late then believe me, because the show will be over. What you could do in that case is to ask yourself how could you possibly ignore all those signs that the show is really rubbish.

It must be great to have your focus determined by demographics and target audiences. Way to go D&D. Or with pretty actresses that are meant to be eye candy. Really, can adaptation be better than that? Isn't every author dreaming to have his books adapted into marketing project? And about Bolton, no, it will never be something from TWOW. Not only that it would make zero logic but you have to consider that so far Martin never wrote anything that is as poorly written as that scene. Unlike D&D Martin actually knows how to write dialogues and character interactions.

You're wrong again because he wrote AFFC before D&D approached him. In fact he looks determined to be not influenced by HBO either way. And you're predictably wrong about the show because it isn't refining. Not with all the nonsense like Grey Worm + Missandei and dinner with Boltons. If anything it is the show that is losing focus though that is nothing new for D&D.

Well of course that it is true. Anyone with brain can see that books 4 and 5 are different than first three. But conclusion that GRRM lost his focus is absurd. He changed his mind about five year gap and he's trying to bridge two ends of his original story. That is definitely not similar to losing focus. All I see in books 4 and 5 is that he's setting things up for the final two books. In fact AFFC and ADWD in the series have same role as ACOK in the first three books. In ACOK the story also got bigger and it looked like resolution of the War of the Five Kings was only further away. But when ASOS came it showed that some parts of ACOK were set-ups for resolution to war. Years ago when I was finishing ACOK I was tricked by some readers into thinking Theon's story is filler and they were also annoyed with Stannis because they thought that his story was taking away from the main storyline which was about Starks and Lannisters. Of course once I read ASOS I saw how ridiculous they were. And this parroting about AFFC and ADWD looks like the same thing to me and I can't wait for TWOW so that people stop with this ridiculous statements that GRRM lost his focus. And no, the time it takes to write this books is really not unexplainable unless you managed to miss everything that GRRM managed to include in them.

This is possibly the most absurd thing ever posted on this forum. Now I've seen everything, really!

And the funny thing is that some of this guys are unable to comprehend internet discussion but they don't restrain from passing some harsh judgments about GRRM's books. If someone isn't able to see difference between criticism and ad hominem attacks how is that someone to understand plot progression and character development?