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Shagwell the mad jester

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  1. Baseless predictions? Brilliant, here we go. Fire magic and ice magic will annihilate one another in the end. Neither Daenerys nor Jon Snow (who will be the main opponents in the end) will ever make it to the Iron Throne (which - as an object - won't propably exist anymore). Azor Ahai and the Prince who was Promised will both turn out to be Daenerys. But she will defeat the Others and their Ice Magic only by sacrifying herself and her dragons. Which means: Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa will be one and the same person - her. The aftermath of the story will be similar to the aftermath of The Lord of the Rings: magic is gone and the maesters will take over. (Just like in LOTR - all elves and other creatures move on to a magical land and the following age is the age of mankind).
  2. I have answered already, what my opinion about Quentyn is. First, he fits the trope of the prince that goes on adventure to meet his princess. He tries himself as a dragonrider. Both these things fail miserably. The theory (somebody brought up in this thread before me) that GRRM is ironizing (or "deconstructing" as others may prefer) a literary trope of the whole genre cannot so easily be dismissed. Second, the result of his actions is that he released the dragons - without doubt an important plot twist, that does justify a few POVs. And Quentyn's POVs gives us some insights about the sellsword companies he travels with. We can surely discuss, if there aren't too many POVs of Quentyn's or if a POV by e.g. Drinkwater wouldn't have been better. But in my opinion this is already enough for Quentyn to "have a point" as the thread title questions. If this doesn't sound convincing or impressing - I can live with that. Edit: Quentyn shows that you can have Targaryen blood and still not be a dragonrider. This may or may not be important for the further plot, but it is something that should be noticed.
  3. Well, I simply said that I don't believe all these theories, and that Quentyn's point is somewhere else then you popped up out of nowhere vigorously defending it. When I ask for evidence, you tell me, you brought it up already and reproach me for ignoring it. But I see only associative references (to put it more mildly) , in the line of "Quentyn's nickname is "Frog" and Dany jokes about him being a Frog who will turn into a Prince". How compelling. You could have simply accepted me not believing any of it. I didn't ask to be missionized. Ah yes, "Three heads has the dragon". That's what always comes in with every theory I have ever seen here. It sounds important, but is in fact meaningless, since we don't know what role the dragons will play in the future.
  4. Funny, I always perceived them as fictionalized version of Zoroastrism (which also has fire temples), but this shoe partly fits. I also think that Dany will get into trouble with this. The unrest among the common people is widespread, as the sparrow movement has shown. It is logical that they turn against Dany and their dragons, and the the expectation that fAegon might be backed by them is compelling (even though we are yet to see whether any of this will happen).
  5. I have only seen your "overall connect the dots" thing. Or did I miss something? If you think this is "evidence", it's indeed a waste of time discussing this and we should stop doing so. But again: this isn't what the thread is about anyway. We are talking about Quentyn Martell as he appears in ADWD.
  6. You are right. 20 or 100 points without any real evidence from the text (which means - from the books we got, mostly ADWD) - this isn't anything anybody could ever care about. But if you can cite a text from ADWD or somewhere else, that shows that Quentyn survived and he is ...whatever he is supposed to be... - please do so. In your last post you just cited me. But I didn't write anything on the story, alas. But this isn't what I am actually talking about. These things are not needed to make Quentyn an "interesting" character. He is already. And remember - he released the dragons. If ever the novels will be completed , this will be an important twist of the story.
  7. So do I, that's not my point. I am just afraid, that GRRM had too many ideas at this point and he doesn't know how to put them into a story of (supposedly) just two volumes. Another example is the false Dimitry story with Young Griff, which was introduced only in ADWD - this is also something he could have came up with much earlier (we wouldn't have got a Tyrion POV in Essos though). Like it was put by someone else in this thread: he seems to have lost control over the story. Too may ideas that affect the whole plot line, which isn't that easy to adjust after all. I don't think he's lost interest (supposedly he has already written so many manuscript pages, that there could be three versions of TWOW already). I think it's rather the opposite: not getting the story together any more due to an abundance of ideas. So it's in fact propably better to write shorter stories instead. But i am also afraid this will kill ASOIAF. We might still get TWOW, but A dream of spring? - well. We'll see.
  8. Well, that's the problem here. You haven't shown any evidence. Just your own conjectures (but on such fan forums it is quite common that people don't distinguish between these things). And that you don't believe a POV character, which is something of the shakiest thing possible. Some parts of your conjectures also lack logic. A fake Aegon doesn't need a real Aegon to be still alive, it's even better for any pretender when he isn't. But of course, I enjoy to read theories, also theories of Princes that were promised or "hidden identity". I just don't buy most of it. And of course I don't want to convince you. I just find all these musings a bit far fetched.
  9. I also don't see that. The main events will take place at Winterfell, a battle at the Dreadfort would be more or less a duplication (narration-wise). GRRM isn't known to be that economic a storyteller, but I don't think he'll write about two major battles in the North. the next thing is, we don't know the result of the battle of Winterfell. Even if Stannis can capture the castle, it could be a Pyrrhos' victory, leaving him too few men to take any other stronghold in the North. (This is something where the Iron Bank could come in, but again this isn't anything we know for sure at this point). And I don't think, there'll be a dog named Old Nan. I rather expect a piece of skin hanging around in some cupboard.
  10. What we see in Quentyn: you can be a Prince with (at least partly) the right blood. You go to foreign continent on an arduous journey into a war you don't know much about. Then you get the chance to meet your princess and prove that you are the one she needs. And you fail terribly. This is a tale of futility and absurdity (in a literary sense, like the theater of the absurd). I appreciate this (but many people apparently don't). And that he freed the dragons is nevertheless a plot twist so important, that it justifies a few POVs.
  11. I think so too. Quaithe isn't a charcter in the full sense. She keeps on warning Dany about other people (and as far as we can already see, that warnings seem to be justified - but she could still be an enemy rather than a "dangerous friend"). And she speaks, well not really in riddles, but so that there is always a space left for interpretation (perfumed senechal anyone?). But in my opinion that doesn't make her boring or justifies theories about her identity. But, of course, with this I have proven that this theory is indeed unpopular.
  12. *LOL* In another thread I've already been told, that my rhetoric is sometimes running wild. Of course I mean it like that: we have no reason to doubt that Quentyn is dead. Everything else seems to be fan fiction based on wishful thinking. The explanation that GRRM is ironizing a literary trope here makes a lot more sense to me than seeing Quentyn ressurected within a dragon or this whole "hiden identity" thing. (I don't even believe that Young Griff is Aegon, why should I believe this with any other character? *lol*)
  13. You have your own way of reading the text. That's fine, I don't need to convince you, since you repeatedly pointed out, that you don't understand what I am saying. What I didn't say is, that I am against these "soap opera elements". I enjoy them too. But there's is more to it (even though I am not sure if we can compare GRRM to Shakespeare - Shakespeare wrote much more and finished his works). You don't like that, fine. We can finish the discussion here. And yes, I don't have any reason to doubt, what Marwyn said. Which, in my reading, is something else than you believe he said.
  14. I don't know how unpopular this is, but: when I first read about Lady Stoneheart I almost had the urge to slap GRRM's face. A well-written novel about a civil war in a fantasy world with depth and knowledge of medieval history and then, for no apparent reason, it slips into a second-rate zombie story. It doesn't even have any importance for the plot.
  15. An unpopular theory? Wonderful. I think that the magic of fire and ice will annihilate one another in the end, which will result in Jon's (ice) and Daenery's (fire) death (or final death in the case of Jon). And I'm looking forward to battles between dragons and Others. (Okay, the last sentence was a joke. I hope GRRM will be writing it a bit more subtly).
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