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R+L=J v 66


Stubby

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A little addendum to this colourful analysis, courtesy of Viserion:


His flame lit the pit, pale gold shot through with red and orange [...]

And more:


A line of fire gleamed in its wake -dragon's blood, glowing gold and red.

The fiery palette connects thus not only Rhaegar to Jon but both to fire and blood, dragon's blood or better... blood of the dragon.

If these passages are also foreshadowing of Jon bonding/warging with Viserion I cannot say. I used to be partial to Rhaegal for a certain number of reasons but J. Stargaryen's Emeralds thread and the Blacks/Greens conflict in TPatQ gave me pause. A white dragon ridden/warged by a black knight. Seems fitting.

Talking of TPatQ and dragons... I'm glad to be in the lucky part of the world that got the short novel in advance :)

A dragon in the novel has a peculiar name btw:

Grey... Ghost

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There are plenty of Targaryens who don't look it. There's Baelor Breakspear, there's Valarr and Matarys, Daeron (Egg's brother) and Princess Rhaenys (according to an SSM). Baratheon seed is strong enough to ensure that black hair and blue eyes always pass down, but it seems Targaryen seed is not. The only reason that most of them are blonde is because of incest.


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Just saw "Toothless," from "How to Train your Dragon" in the Macys Thanksgiving Day parade- just gorgeous. Forty-eight feet high..... :drool:



Okay, on topic.



It's true that many of the Targaryens don't have their traditional "look," due to the spouse they may have had.



It's odd, but I would have associated the Targaryens look more so with the north and ice, and the Starks with south and heat. If a Targaryen female had ever married into the Starks, I think she would have been most fitting as a lady of winter.


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To add to FrozenFire3's connections of Jon with Dany's dragons.

"Snow."
Sam glanced up at the sound. Lord Commander Mormont's raven was circling the fire, beating the air with wide black wings.

Drogon's wide black wings beat the air.

Black blood was flowing from the wound where the spear had pierced him [Drogon], smoking where it dripped onto the scorched sands.

Once a man had said the words his blood was black.

In the cold night air the [Jon's] wound was smoking.

Another indication that Jon has blood of the dragon.

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To add to FrozenFire3's connections of Jon with Dany's dragons.

"Snow."

Sam glanced up at the sound. Lord Commander Mormont's raven was circling the fire, beating the air with wide black wings.

Drogon's wide black wings beat the air.

Black blood was flowing from the wound where the spear had pierced him [Drogon], smoking where it dripped onto the scorched sands.

Once a man had said the words his blood was black.

In the cold night air the [Jon's] wound was smoking.

Another indication that Jon has blood of the dragon.

As usual, a perfect quotinception :bowdown:

I tried a full analysis of your first quotation a while back btw. Last but not least, to add fuel to the... fire ;)

She remembered the dragon twisting beneath her, shuddering at the impacts, as she tried desperately to cling to his scaled back. The wounds were smoking.
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Or the smoke appeared just because of the cold? Hot blood and flesh will produce smoke if exposed to low temperatures ....

Yes, that's the scientific explanation for it, but they're talking about how Martin phrases things. Jon's wound smoking, for instance, isn't a necessary detail, so Martin clearly chose to include it for a reason. Likewise, there are other words that could be used to describe that same phenomenon -- steaming is how I usually describe this kind of thing because that's the actual process that's occurring. So it's an odd word choice and it's linked to an earlier description of a smoking wound as a result.

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Yes, that's the scientific explanation for it, but they're talking about how Martin phrases things. Jon's wound smoking, for instance, isn't a necessary detail, so Martin clearly chose to include it for a reason. Likewise, there are other words that could be used to describe that same phenomenon -- steaming is how I usually describe this kind of thing because that's the actual process that's occurring. So it's an odd word choice and it's linked to an earlier description of a smoking wound as a result.

Maybe Martin gives false trace :bang:

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You nailed it !!!!

See my post above. Of course there was smoke coming from his wound because it was cold. That isn't the point.

Maybe Martin gives false trace :bang:

I doubt it. If Martin wants to distract us from the truth, it's done in a more obvious way. Like Robb winning all of his battles and then getting brutally murdered at a wedding. The clues to the truth are more subtle.

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ITS AMAZING THE R +L=JON TARGARYEAN STARK SNOW HAS BEEN SCRUTINNIZED FROM THE BEGINNING ..I FOR AM LOOKING FORWARD TO THE WINDSOF WINTER .I HAVE READ SOME OF THE BEST POSTERS FOR THE LAST 2 YEARS AN I AM CONVINCED THAT JON WILL COME BACK AN BE THY MAN RAISED BY NED AND SAVED FOR THE LOVE HE BORE LYANNA ..WHY THEY HAD TO FIGHT AN LOSE SO MANY GOOD CHARACTERS ONLY GEORGE STYLE.. I CAN NOT WAIT FOR THE BIG REVEAL.JON HAS A DIREWOLF AN HE WILL RIDE A DRAGON WITH THE CROWN OF TORREN STARK WIELDING A AWESOME SWORD ..JON IS THE SONG OF ICE AN FIRE ..BOWEN MARSH KILLED THE BOY THE MAN WILL BE REBORN A DRAGONWOLF OMG MOMENT ..HAVE GREAT ADMIRATION FOR THAT BUTTERBUMPS APPLE MARTINI AN SO MANY MORE LEGENDS OF THE BOARD. THE FANS OF THE NOVELS ARE AMAZING ..ITS GREAT THAT THE SITE HAS GIVING US THIS FORUM.. JON IS AN ITS PRETTY OBVIOUS WHO HIS PARENTS ARE ..I CANT WAIT TO READ WHEN JON AN HIS AUNTIE MEET.


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ITS AMAZING THE R +L=JON TARGARYEAN STARK SNOW HAS BEEN SCRUTINNIZED FROM THE BEGINNING ..I FOR AM LOOKING FORWARD TO THE WINDSOF WINTER .I HAVE READ SOME OF THE BEST POSTERS FOR THE LAST 2 YEARS AN I AM CONVINCED THAT JON WILL COME BACK AN BE THY MAN RAISED BY NED AND SAVED FOR THE LOVE HE BORE LYANNA ..WHY THEY HAD TO FIGHT AN LOSE SO MANY GOOD CHARACTERS ONLY GEORGE STYLE.. I CAN NOT WAIT FOR THE BIG REVEAL.JON HAS A DIREWOLF AN HE WILL RIDE A DRAGON WITH THE CROWN OF TORREN STARK WIELDING A AWESOME SWORD ..JON IS THE SONG OF ICE AN FIRE ..BOWEN MARSH KILLED THE BOY THE MAN WILL BE REBORN A DRAGONWOLF OMG MOMENT ..HAVE GREAT ADMIRATION FOR THAT BUTTERBUMPS APPLE MARTINI AN SO MANY MORE LEGENDS OF THE BOARD. THE FANS OF THE NOVELS ARE AMAZING ..ITS GREAT THAT THE SITE HAS GIVING US THIS FORUM.. JON IS AN ITS PRETTY OBVIOUS WHO HIS PARENTS ARE ..I CANT WAIT TO READ WHEN JON AN HIS AUNTIE MEET.

Agreed and love your enthusiasm. :D

(And go Ravens.....)

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There are plenty of Targaryens who don't look it. There's Baelor Breakspear, there's Valarr and Matarys, Daeron (Egg's brother) and Princess Rhaenys (according to an SSM). Baratheon seed is strong enough to ensure that black hair and blue eyes always pass down, but it seems Targaryen seed is not. The only reason that most of them are blonde is because of incest.

That's only five Targaryens with different looks. That's not that much.

In the Princess and the Queen, there is another princess Rhaenys, who has a Baratheon mother. This princess, since she is 55 at the time, is described as having grey with silver hair. So that union with a Baratheon did not cancel out the Valyrian features of the Targaryens.

Also, those features aren't only passed on to later generations. Three times a Targaryen prince married a Velaryon bride, who also have the Valyrian features. There has also been at least one princess who married a male Velaryon.

We only know of one prince who married a Velaryon girl (prince Daemon), and one king, but since Aegon III was already a king when he married a Velaryon, I don't think he counts.

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IIRC from the Princess and Queen spoiler thread, the various Targ bastards don't look Targ at all.

True, but neither is it confirmed if they truly are Targ bastards. It was a war, and there even was a man who claimed to be the son of Maegor the Cruel, who had died about 80 years prior, and had been sterile.

Just saying that we cannot be sure of the parentage of all the supposed Targaryen bastards we meet in tPatQ, since it is never confirmed.

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That's only five Targaryens with different looks. That's not that much.

From a narrative point of view, one established precedent is good enough to foreshadow and support any plot twist and/or development. The author does not need more to integrate coherence into inspiration.

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From a narrative point of view, one established precedent is good enough to foreshadow and support any plot twist and/or development. The author does not need more to integrate coherence into inspiration.

You are right, of course. But someone said that here were many Targaryens who did not have the Targaryen look, and I wanted to correct that. Unfortunately, I can't quote two people in one post on my phone, so I just picked one of the two I wanted to quote.

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