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Sator Arepo

If the Others can't cross the Wall, why worry so much?

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He chose. He even acknowledge that what he want to do will break his vows. He had clear intentions to forfwear his vows. He betrayed the Wall.

So, do you think it is Jon who will cause the magic ward to dissipate? Because he intends to break his vows, Jon is essentially corrupt and the NW has lost all honor and are no longer "true"?

You know, I always felt that Jon is not behaving as is his norm: he does not react with self-control as he usually does. It almost sounds as if Jon dares anyone to stop him.

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So, do you think it is Jon who will cause the magic ward to dissipate? Because he intends to break his vows, Jon is essentially corrupt and the NW has lost all honor and are no longer "true"?

You know, I always felt that Jon is not behaving as is his norm: he does not react with self-control as he usually does. It almost sounds as if Jon dares anyone to stop him.

No, many people betrayed the Wall and... well, it's standing. If the Wall will fall, according with the theory of " true" it will be cause a previous LC trickered (he is no longer true) a Stark (cause their ties with the Wall) to crush the Wall.

In other words... Bloodraven is teaching sorcery to Bran... Bran will destroy the Wall. The children and the Others (assuming they have a pact now) will, then, conquer Westeros.

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No, many people betrayed the Wall and... well, it's standing. If the Wall will fall, according with the theory of " true" it will be cause a previous LC trickered (he is no longer true) a Stark (cause their ties with the Wall) to crush the Wall.

In other words... Bloodraven is teaching sorcery to Bran... Bran will destroy the Wall. The children and the Others (assuming they have a pact now) will, then, conquer Westeros.

Well, this is just my "pet theory" but it is a constant nag - the NW violates the sacred laws of hospitality, a sin against the old gods and the new - and the NW violate not only their host Craster but also their Lord Commander Mormont. Then, Jon is attacked at the Wall, his fate in limbo, but those against him are his own NW brothers.

I think - crackpottery - that the ward on the Wall will fade away because of these violations; likewise, the ward on the WF crypts will diminish and Bran will bring forth his uncle Brandon, his magic turning stone to flesh.

Anyways, I do not think that the Wall will fall at once. I see the Wall falling over a period of time.

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Well, this is just my "pet theory" but it is a constant nag - the NW violates the sacred laws of hospitality, a sin against the old gods and the new - and the NW violate not only their host Craster but also their Lord Commander Mormont. Then, Jon is attacked at the Wall, his fate in limbo, but those against him are his own NW brothers.

I think - crackpottery - that the ward on the Wall will fade away because of these violations; likewise, the ward on the WF crypts will diminish and Bran will bring forth his uncle Brandon, his magic turning stone to flesh.

Anyways, I do not think that the Wall will fall at once. I see the Wall falling over a period of time.

Woah! Any basis for this at all?

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So, do you think it is Jon who will cause the magic ward to dissipate? Because he intends to break his vows, Jon is essentially corrupt and the NW has lost all honor and are no longer "true"?

You know, I always felt that Jon is not behaving as is his norm: he does not react with self-control as he usually does. It almost sounds as if Jon dares anyone to stop him.

People have left the wall before but it still stands...So according to this logic, just because one night's watch wants to do something considered bad than the Wall has to fall? I think compared to what the other NW have done, Jon's actions aren't even as close.

Plus, the original argument that was made against Jon was that he let wildlings through...not that he was wanting to go to Winterfell...So my argument was that Jon letting the Wildlings through isn't betraying the wall at all, and people who think that are missing GRRM's point about being ignorant against who is the real enemy.

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No, many people betrayed the Wall and... well, it's standing. If the Wall will fall, according with the theory of " true" it will be cause a previous LC trickered (he is no longer true) a Stark (cause their ties with the Wall) to crush the Wall.

In other words... Bloodraven is teaching sorcery to Bran... Bran will destroy the Wall. The children and the Others (assuming they have a pact now) will, then, conquer Westeros.

First off Jon did not betray his vows or betray the wall. He is the Lord Commander and the son of a Northern Lord has become a threat to Jon, Night's Watch and the Realm of Men. He does not abandon his post or break his vows. While I personally do not believe even if he had left for Winterfell he would be breaking his vows because of a real threat to the Wall, he has only stated his intentions. Someone can say they forsake their vows all they want, words are wind, you cannot be executed for it until that time where you actually DO forsake your vows.

Also the Ides of Marsh men had been conspiring to do this before Jon decided to assemble a host to march south.

Additionally it was not up to Marsh to sit in judgement against the Lord Commander and carry out an assassination of a Lord Commander without charges being brought etc.

What Marsh did was no better than what those betrayers at Crastor's keep did to Lord Commander Mormont.

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Though, saying Jon propsed to break his vows, and saying Marsh was right are two different things...


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