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[Spoilers] The Princess and the Queen, complete spoilers discussion


chrisdaw

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The Kingsguard/Queensguard

Based on the material of the novella, is it possible that there wasn't more than 7 at the same time?

In the original split, 4 were for Aegon and 3 were for Rhaenyra.

Theory: Arryk & Erryk probably died in 129AC as there is no mention of either after Orwyle visits Dragonstone to speak with Rhaenyra. I'm thinking that their epic duel was in Rhaenyra's presence and so when both of them died, she claimed both spots in the KG before letting the Greens know. She may have even done the same when Criston Cole was reported dead? Which allows her 5 in total.

Black - Steffon Darklyn died on Dragonstone trying to claim a dragon near the end of 129AC.
Green - Criston Cole died on his way south 130AC
Black - Lorent Marbrand died in the riots 130AC

Rhaenyra's Other Queensguard:
Glendon Goode - Named LC after Lorent's death. Think he may have died near the end of the riots as Rhaenyra only has 4 QG with her when she abandons the city. If he stayed behind or was sent on a mission, then Rhaenyra would still have 5.
Lyonel Bentley - Dies enroute to Duskendale. Now 4.
Harrold Darke - Dies on Dragonstone
Adrian Redfort - Dies on Dragonstone
Loreth Lansdale - Dies on Dragonstone. Now 1!

Aegon's New Kingsguard:
Marston Waters - Named to the Kingsguard on Dragonstone.

It is probably the way the book is edited but from what I've read, there is only 7 Whitecloaks at a given time. Anyone else notice this?

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Gyldayn uses sources because they are the sources available, each with their particular pros and cons. He's actually fairly explicit about what those problems are. There are bits where he drily notes that all these sources have this detail... but this other one doesn't, and you can draw your conclusions. Does that about Eustace, once or twice.

Honestly, I don't think Gyldayn is really in the tank for anyone in particular. He's writing something like a century and more after the Dance.

What a pity that the story had to be edited to pieces. The way you describe it, GRRM's full story would have been much better than the edited version and now I'm wondering whether the version from TWoIaF is going to suffer the same deficiency of being too brief. Considering that GRRM has already written all the material, it might have been a better choice to publish it as long story in multiple installments instead of puzzle pieces here and there. (Which in turn would have probably created a publishing mess for DW and TWoIaF but that's not my part to worry about. :smug: ) Oh well, maybe we get an unabriged version of it once ASOIAF has finished. (First things first. :cool4: )

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I don't really understand why people keep proposing publication of an unfinished piece of work in some abnormal format. GRRM has been writing and editing for decades, and is comfortable doing business the way he does it.

It will or won't be published in the future. Up to GRRM if he wants to finish it, and when he wants to do it, and how he wants to package it. Until then, you've got what you've got. The only thing that makes the full thing better than TPatQ or what there is from it in the world book is that there's just more of it.

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Thanks, Ran, for indicating when Gyldayn supposedly lived and wrote the whole thing. I did not get the impression by the text that it was likely that he was already alive as a boy during the Dance but I considered it possible that he - and perhaps Munkun as well - had a chance to personally talk to any eye witnesses personally. But the way things are Gyldayn is supposed to be working only with written source material. The one tidbit on the unclear motivation of Ulf White and Hard Hugh Hammer also indicated as much (since they were illiterate there are no written sources from which anyone could try to guess their motivations and thoughts).



On the editing thing:



When you read TPatQ it becomes evident even to the casual that it was heavily cut down and edited (although someone not knowing that may simply consider it a badly written story). There are punctuation mistakes, bad sentences like 'Maelor was only possessed by a dragon's egg', and stuff is arranged in a weird way sometimes. For instance, first Gyldayn mentions that Prince Daeron and Tessarion are in Oldtown. Later he mentions how Rhaenyra's loyalists in the Reach are about to overwhelm and defeat Lord Ormund Hightower's army and makes Prince Daeron's appearance and his participation in the battle on Lord Ormund's side a huge surprise. Lord Ormund knighting Prince Daeron afterwards (he is only 15, by the way) and dubbing him 'Daeron the Daring' indicates that Lord Ormund and Prince Daeron had not met each other before that. One can then deduce that Alicent or Aemond have sent Daeron south on Tessarion after they have learned that the Rowans, Tarlys, Costaynes etc. have declared for Rhaenyra. But the text itself does not say that. I really don't think that the text was supposed to be arranged this way.



Prince Daeron is really a nice guy, by the way. Perhaps the nicest Targaryen in the whole story. He is the only one who weeps upon his father's death, he judges himself realistically (i.e. gives his dragon credit instead of considering himself great because he sits on his back). He is a third son in the whole meaning of it. It's very likely that he only participated in the war because his mother and brother(s) demanded that of him. It would come to no surprise to me if he and Aegon III did like each other and thus it may be not unlikely that the Young Dragon is really named after him.



Another thing is the fact that GRRM promises is the title that Gyldayn gives us 'the causes' of the Dance of the Dragons in the following text. He does not do this. In my opinion analyzing the causes of the Dance would be to dig into the motivations and the past of some of the key characters (i.e. Alicent and Rhaenyra, and their relationship, Criston Cole, Daemon, Ser Otto, Aegon II, Aemond, and - most importantly - Viserys I). There are bits and pieces there. It is indicated that there is bad blood between Ser Otto and Prince Daemon (Daemon is one of Otto's oldest enemies), one of Rhaenyra's sons took out Prince Aemond's eye (but it's not revealed which one - I expected it to be Prince Lucerys Velaryon, and the whole thing being Aemond's motivation to kill him, but that is not touched upon).



We don't know if Rhaenyra had an affair with Ser Criston Cole, nor do we know if she dumped him. We don't know how Viserys's relationship to his younger brother Daemon was, nor why he wanted Rhaenyra to inherit him after he had three sons.



Speaking about that, I've a rather important question in that context: When Rhaenyra executes Ser Otto Hightower Gyldayn says that he 'served three kings as Hand'. Is that a mistake or was Ser Otto really Hand under Jaehaerys I, Viserys I, and Aegon II? This would mean that Ser Otto served most likely throughout the whole reign of Viserys I now - as well as during the last years of the Old King. I'd find it difficult to reconcile this with Maester Pylos's claim that Ser Otto was raised to Handship for his learning, but proved to be a disaster'. This seems to indicate that he served only for a short period of time rather than throughout the whole of Viserys's reign and throughout the last years of the Old King.



On Rhaenyra as a person:



She is way much better than I expected her to be. She does not kill her stepmother. The rumor about her being involved in Helaena's suicide is nonsense. She has nothing to do with the Cheese and Blood incident.



She is talked into arresting/killing Ser Addam and Nettles. The way TPatQ describes it Nettles's alleged affair with Prince Daemon is the pretext for the death sentence, not actually the reason why Rhaenyra wanted to kill her (she could not really write to Mooton 'Kill her because she may become a traitor', could she?).


The way Gyldayn portrays things Daemon is the hawk in Rhaenyra's administration. He is Lord Protector of the Realm, he is the one commanding her armies, making her battle plans, doing her dirty work - dirty work she herself may not actually consider necessary.


Daemon decides that one of Aegon's sons has to die to avenge his step-son Lucerys, but he does not think about talking some sense into his wife after she has given that stupid command to Lord Mooton. He is still the Lord Protector. He could easily seize the power at Rhaenyra's court Pretty much all the paranoid and biased lickspittles at her court feeding Rhaenyra the idea that the bastard dragonriders could not be trusted could be easily put back into place should Daemon return to KL on Caraxes. Daemon would also have a responsibility to his son, Aegon.



As to Rhaenyra's open marriage: She does not seem to have a lover during these days, but she may have had some in the past. Ser Harwin Strong and Ser Criston Cole. And it's not sure that she did that because her husband Laenor was gay. Back during the tourney when Criston was still a Black Rhaenyra apparently was not yet married (else her sons by Laenor may have been Coles instead of Strongs). Daemon seems to be bisexual and seems to have had affairs in the past and with Netty as well. But it's not really stated anywhere that Rhaenyra was really in love with her uncle. That may be the case, and I suspected as much, but the way the Nettles affair is depicted makes much less likely that Nettles affair with Daemon is the reason why Rhaenyra wants her killed.



And I really don't see the reason why Netty and Daemon do not fight for their love. They could leave Westeros together, or they could return to KL and demand that Rhaenyra accept their relationship. She could not exactly losing these dragons, could she?


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I don't really understand why people keep proposing publication of an unfinished piece of work in some abnormal format. GRRM has been writing and editing for decades, and is comfortable doing business the way he does it.

Didn't want to suggest otherwise. Apologies if it seemed that way. It's just that TPatQ was a bit of a let down for me and from the way you filled us in on some details I got the impression that necessities of the publication process have had a negative impact on TPatQ.

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Well, yes, TPatQ is a smaller work than the source material, and there are a couple of things referenced that aren't given any details... I don't know if it's really a negative, though. There are things glossed in the full Dance of the Dragons material that require some of his other texts to fully make sense, too. That's just the nature of a historically-aimed text -- it won't cover every inch of ground.

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Rahgh Neqaj,



that's my impression as well. The text feels and reads awkward, there are plenty of mistakes in it that are unintentional, and it fails to deliver details on multiple fronts. I guess it would have been better rewrite the whole thing to make a piece strictly about the princess and the queen, i.e. a sort of biography of the two women culminating in their clashes during the Dance. One could have easily done this and make the whole thing very important. The development of the war in itself could have been shown in short appendix in a LotR 'Tales of the Years'-like fashion mentioning the dates and protagonists of the major battles.



Gyldayn makes an awkward attempt to justify his title 'The Princess and the Queen' in the end by stating that Alicent won her feud with Rhaenyra but outliving her, but wouldn't it be a much better way to, say, depict her reaction when she learned about her step-daughter's demise combining that with her reunion with (and reaction to the appearance) of her last surviving son?



I'm not sure if that's only me but I find many of the conversations that start in medias res awkward. Often the story jumps from indirect speech to direct speech in a way that could have done better. I may imagine it that they would have been better in the full piece since I know that much stuff has been cut other people who have already read the story seem to share my feelings.


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Lady Lannister,



the Targaryens follow the Seven.



On the really interesting topic of dragonriders that no one yet started to talk about:



It's not exactly solved that Targaryen blood is necessary to become a dragonrider. In favor of this whole thing speaks the fact that the non-Targaryen dragonriders may indeed have more than a drop of Targaryen/Valyrian blood. It seems as if all of them are either from Dragonstone or Driftmark. Ulf White is originally one of Rhaenyra's men-at-arms, and Hard Hugh Hammer is the bastard of a blacksmith. I very much doubt that they have been shipped to Dragonstone for the mainland of Westeros. Netty's origins are not touched upon at all, but she seems to be native born on Dragonstone. Ulf may have some Valyrian features since his hair is white (it's not specified if his hair is white from age or Valyrian platinum white), Nettles does not share any Targaryen features. She is described as brown, which may extend to her skin color as well as her eyes (they are explicitly called 'brown').



Addam and Alyn of Hull's heritage is not clear, either. Lord Corlys wants them legitimized after Addam has mounted Seasmoke (and Jace supports and eventually sways his mother to legitimize them as Velaryons and heirs to Driftmark), but that does not necessarily mean that they are his bastards. If Laenor Velaryon was really gay I'm not convinced that he is the father of them, either. And Corlys and Rhaenys really seem to have loved each other. Gyldayn calls Princess Rhaenys Corlys's 'faithful wife', and Corlys gets really angry after her death. Thus I'm not convinced that Corlys is the father of Addam and Alyn.


'Hull' seems to be referring to the town Hull on Driftmark, by the way. It's most likely the place where they are born and/or where they live.



One could easily claim that Gyldayn's claim that there are Targaryen bastards all over the place on Dragonstone is complete bogus. But we really get a good insight in Targaryen incest marriages in this story. They are arranged. Siblings aren't drawn to each other in a romantic way even if they are married to each other. Helaena Targaryen does not love Aegon II, and Aegon II has a paramour. Aemond Targaryen marries or promises to marry one of Lord Borros Baratheon's daughters while entertaining a mistress, Alys Rivers (of whom we don't anything but the fact that she is supposedly a seer - which could make her Targaryen bastard).


And we do know that plenty of Targaryen males once lived on Dragonstone between Aenar and Aegon, and many of them did not continue the main line down to Aegon and his sisters. So it would be not impossible to assume that many of the smallfolk on Dragonstone have Targaryen ancestors.


It's also not impossible that many if not all of the people on Dragonstone are descended from the original Valyrian settlers of Dragonstone. Either from the original Valyrians who built the castle Dragonstone, or from the people Aenar Targaryen brought with him from Valyria.



Really ridiculous is the claim of this one guy, Silver Denys, to be a bastard of Maegor the Cruel. How old would have to be in 129 AC? Over eighty? How stupid do you have to be try to mount a dragon at this age, or claim to be descended from a king who was incapable of fathering a son on any of his many wives?


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And I really don't see the reason why Netty and Daemon do not fight for their love. They could leave Westeros together, or they could return to KL and demand that Rhaenyra accept their relationship. She could not exactly losing these dragons, could she?

I thought they left Westeros together after Daemon faked his death but maybe I'm a bit soft.

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Lady Lannister,

the Targaryens follow the Seven.

On the really interesting topic of dragonriders that no one yet started to talk about:

It's not exactly solved that Targaryen blood is necessary to become a dragonrider. In favor of this whole thing speaks the fact that the non-Targaryen dragonriders may indeed have more than a drop of Targaryen/Valyrian blood. It seems as if all of them are either from Dragonstone or Driftmark. Ulf White is originally one of Rhaenyra's men-at-arms, and Hard Hugh Hammer is the bastard of a blacksmith. I very much doubt that they have been shipped to Dragonstone for the mainland of Westeros. Netty's origins are not touched upon at all, but she seems to be native born on Dragonstone. Ulf may have some Valyrian features since his hair is white (it's not specified if his hair is white from age or Valyrian platinum white), Nettles does not share any Targaryen features. She is described as brown, which may extend to her skin color as well as her eyes (they are explicitly called 'brown').

Addam and Alyn of Hull's heritage is not clear, either. Lord Corlys wants them legitimized after Addam has mounted Seasmoke (and Jace supports and eventually sways his mother to legitimize them as Velaryons and heirs to Driftmark), but that does not necessarily mean that they are his bastards. If Laenor Velaryon was really gay I'm not convinced that he is the father of them, either. And Corlys and Rhaenys really seem to have loved each other. Gyldayn calls Princess Rhaenys Corlys's 'faithful wife', and Corlys gets really angry after her death. Thus I'm not convinced that Corlys is the father of Addam and Alyn.

'Hull' seems to be referring to the town Hull on Driftmark, by the way. It's most likely the place where they are born and/or where they live.

One could easily claim that Gyldayn's claim that there are Targaryen bastards all over the place on Dragonstone is complete bogus. But we really get a good insight in Targaryen incest marriages in this story. They are arranged. Siblings aren't drawn to each other in a romantic way even if they are married to each other. Helaena Targaryen does not love Aegon II, and Aegon II has a paramour. Aemond Targaryen marries or promises to marry one of Lord Borros Baratheon's daughters while entertaining a mistress, Alys Rivers (of whom we don't anything but the fact that she is supposedly a seer - which could make her Targaryen bastard).

And we do know that plenty of Targaryen males once lived on Dragonstone between Aenar and Aegon, and many of them did not continue the main line down to Aegon and his sisters. So it would be not impossible to assume that many of the smallfolk on Dragonstone have Targaryen ancestors.

It's also not impossible that many if not all of the people on Dragonstone are descended from the original Valyrian settlers of Dragonstone. Either from the original Valyrians who built the castle Dragonstone, or from the people Aenar Targaryen brought with him from Valyria.

Really ridiculous is the claim of this one guy, Silver Denys, to be a bastard of Maegor the Cruel. How old would have to be in 129 AC? Over eighty? How stupid do you have to be try to mount a dragon at this age, or claim to be descended from a king who was incapable of fathering a son on any of his many wives?

Perhaps Addam and Alyn are the bastards of a brother or nephew of Corlys, who were dead at that time? Corlys has no heirs left, so he asks his brothers or nephews bastards to be made legit, so the Velaryon line can continue? They couldn't have been Laenors, I agree.

This might also solve the problem of Aegons Velaryon bride. She could have been a daugter of Addam, or a daugter of a nephew or brother of Corlys (but I would guess nephew, looking at the ages).

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On Daemon and Netty:



The way Gyldayn describes Daemon in Harrenhal is as if he is in mourning. But nobody has died. No one said that he has to take out Aemond at all. If he feels Rhaenyra has betrayed him why the hell does he take out Aemond of all people? Yeah, he set out to do that, but why would he do that after his wife has betrayed him? Why send Nettles away and go not with her?



One could also wonder if they truly had an affair or if Netty was one of Daemon's bastard daughters? That could also explain why they grew close to one another, and it may be that this was also the a incest relationship between father and daughter?



The story gives us no insight whatsoever in their relationship, how it started, nor whether Rhaenyra ever started to get jealous before Daemon set out to hunt down Aemond. If she did, one would have expected that she keeps Netty separated from Daemon, either at KL or at Tumbleton.



If Daemon and Nettles only grew close at Maidenpool then I'm not sure how Rhaenyra would have found out about that. Yeah, people talk and stuff, but the queen had a war to wage, and it does not seems as if she was able or willing to spy on her consort.



On Aegon III's Velaryon queen:



If she is still canon - her one-time father, the Velaryon Regent and Hand is gone - then my guess is that she is indeed the daughter of Alyn Velaryon. He is only fifteen during the Dance, but Aegon III is first married to Jaehaera, and they may be married for quite some time, actually. Daeron I is only 14 when his father dies, so it's easily possible that Aegon marries Alyn's daughter as soon as he can (i.e. when Jaehaera is dead and Alyn's daughter is old enough to marry her).



The way Aegon the Younger is portrayed - as a traumatized and introverted person - I'd not be surprised one bit if he refused to consummate his marriage to the daughter of the uncle who murdered his mother before his eyes.



I guess Lord Corlys has reason to believe that he is related to Addam and Alyn. But there may also be a pragmatic view to it. Seasmoke was Laenor's dragon - the Velaryon dragon. By making Addam his heir House Velaryon would keep one of the dragons.



The same may be the reason behind Daemon's suggestion to grant Casterly Rock and Storm's End to Ulf White and Hard Hugh Hammer. He judged their character right and knew that they would have to give great rewards to them to keep them in their camp.


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On Daemon and Netty:

The way Gyldayn describes Daemon in Harrenhal is as if he is in mourning. But nobody has died. No one said that he has to take out Aemond at all. If he feels Rhaenyra has betrayed him why the hell does he take out Aemond of all people? Yeah, he set out to do that, but why would he do that after his wife has betrayed him? Why send Nettles away and go not with her?

One could also wonder if they truly had an affair or if Netty was one of Daemon's bastard daughters? That could also explain why they grew close to one another, and it may be that this was also the a incest relationship between father and daughter?

The story gives us no insight whatsoever in their relationship, how it started, nor whether Rhaenyra ever started to get jealous before Daemon set out to hunt down Aemond. If she did, one would have expected that she keeps Netty separated from Daemon, either at KL or at Tumbleton.

If Daemon and Nettles only grew close at Maidenpool then I'm not sure how Rhaenyra would have found out about that. Yeah, people talk and stuff, but the queen had a war to wage, and it does not seems as if she was able or willing to spy on her consort.

On Aegon III's Velaryon queen:

If she is still canon - her one-time father, the Velaryon Regent and Hand is gone - then my guess is that she is indeed the daughter of Alyn Velaryon. He is only fifteen during the Dance, but Aegon III is first married to Jaehaera, and they may be married for quite some time, actually. Daeron I is only 14 when his father dies, so it's easily possible that Aegon marries Alyn's daughter as soon as he can (i.e. when Jaehaera is dead and Alyn's daughter is old enough to marry her).

The way Aegon the Younger is portrayed - as a traumatized and introverted person - I'd not be surprised one bit if he refused to consummate his marriage to the daughter of the uncle who murdered his mother before his eyes.

I guess Lord Corlys has reason to believe that he is related to Addam and Alyn. But there may also be a pragmatic view to it. Seasmoke was Laenor's dragon - the Velaryon dragon. By making Addam his heir House Velaryon would keep one of the dragons.

The same may be the reason behind Daemon's suggestion to grant Casterly Rock and Storm's End to Ulf White and Hard Hugh Hammer. He judged their character right and knew that they would have to give great rewards to them to keep them in their camp.

If Aegons Velaryon Queen is Alyns daughter, that would mean Alyn was the lover of his granddaughter. Since everybody in Westeros is maling such a big deal about Craster wedding his daughters, I doubt Alyn would get away with a relationship with his granddaughter.

Same goes for Daemon and Nettles. They could have been father and daughter, but of that was true, I doubt they had a relationship as well. That would take the incest a bit too far, even for Targaryens, don't you think?

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So what was that "Blood and Cheese" thing? And what about Aegon II's personalilty? Ran called him a slimeball.

For some reason it reminded me of Varys and Illyrio. I think maybe the incident was so notorious their "names" went down in history. I did expect their deaths to appear later in the story though.

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Just finished this story...



Wow! Where to start? Got the distinct impression that GRR was writing in summary something he would have liked to develop more fully...



It is a bit of a gift, anyway. Lovely to see the descriptions of dragons fighting and killing. Terribly gory.


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Alyn and Elaena and Daemon and Netty did not marry. It would be extreme, I agree. Perhaps GRRM completely canceled the Velaryon marriage of Aegon III and lets him marry either Rhaena or Baela. Both or at least one of them could survive the Dance. They would at least have a Velaryon mother.



Elaena seems to be a very interesting character, so such a thing is possible. And gene testing apparently revealed that dynasties that practiced incest did marry grandfather to granddaughter. That's confirmed to have happened among the pharaohs - not only among the Ptolemies but also among the descendants/kin of Akhenaten and Tut-Ankh-Amun.



But she could not been his cousin then, of course. Another possibility is that Corlys Velaryon ends up remarrying and fathers a daughter. If we then consider Alyn as a legitimized bastard of one of his siblings it could work. But GRRM starts to use 'cousin' in the meaning of 'kinsman' in TMK it seems. Egg and Bloodraven refer to each other as 'cousin' there although they are granduncle and grandnephew and should actually be aware of that fact (I changed that in the recent translation for the German collection of the Dunk & Egg stories - yeah, we have such a volume: http://www.amazon.de/Der-Heckenritter-von-Westeros-Urteil/dp/3764531223/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1385739319&sr=8-1&keywords=Der+Heckenritter+von+Westeros


Could be that Alyn's exact relationship to Lord Corlys is never revealed, though. Gyldayn does not uncover that particular genealogy, and then Elaena and her siblings might refer to Alyn simply as 'cousin' because their exact relationship is not even known to them.



On Daemon and Nettles:



It's described that they were close, and never left each other's side. That's a strong hint towards a romance, but it could also be father and daughter spending time together and stuff.



Blood and Cheese are minions Daemon recruits through an unknown inside man on Aegon's council (possibly Grand Maester Orwyle) and an also unknown go-between to slip into the Red Keep - through the secret passageways of which Cheese, a rat-catcher, has intimate knowledge of - to murder one of Aegon's sons to avenge Rhaenyra's second son Lucerys Velaryon (who is killed along with his dragon Arrax by Prince Aemond on Vhagar at Storm's End). Blood is a former Goldclaok with very violent tendencies. They enter the Tower of the Hand, slip into the apartment of Queen Dowager Alicent Hightower (who has moved to the floor beneath her father Otto after her Aegon and Helaena have moved into the royal quarters in Maegor's Holdfast) bind her and strangle her bed-maid. There they wait for Helaena who regularly visits her mother with her children before they go to bed. They force Helaena to name a son to kill. She names two-year old Maelor, but Blood beheads Aegon's six-year-old heir Jaehaerys instead. That's one of the vilest and gruesome pieces of the story. They escape with the head of the dead prince. Helaena has a breakdown afterwards and descends into madness, mostly because she can no longer bear to look upon Maelor who she decided should die.



Aegon II is not very sympathetic. He has not been raised to rule, i.e. he is not exactly patient and competent. He fires Ser Otto as Hand because his grandfather writes too many letters (not realizing that some of this letter-writing might actual be politically important). He is a hothead, expects that being king means that things happen because you want or command them to happen, and he is not exactly a nice guy. He entertains a paramour. Gyldayn telling us that he was actually reluctant to take the Iron Throne when Ser Criston approached him (Septon Eustace, the septon at KL would be the source for this) and only consented to do it after Ser Criston told him that Rhaenyra would have to murder his brothers to secure the rise of her 'bastards' to the Iron Throne does seem to be complete nonsense to me. Aegon wants Rhaenyra attainted and dead as soon as her learns that she does not bend the knee to him (it takes Alicent, Otto, and Orwyle to convince him to try to settle the succession peacefully).



But Prince Aemond is even more stupid than Aegon. He is the warrior, Aegon apparently is not all that much use in that field. Aemond shares some responsibility in Aegon's severe dragonriding accident (Vhagar jumps on Sunfyre and Meleys while they are fighting each other, and Aegon is heavily burned and suffers broken ribs and a broken hip when he hits the ground along with his dragon), Aemond is repeatedly a complete idiot when it comes to strategy. He is a nineteen year old man who thinks he can do anything because he rides the biggest dragon.



As I've already stated above, Prince Daeron seems to be really a nice guy. I could have seen him making a peace with Rhaenyra if he had survived. And Helaena does not seem bad as well, although she does not do much, nor do we know how she feels about her brother's ascension to the Iron Throne. But it may be hinted that she did not exactly love or like her brother-husband. She does not visit him at his sick bed. Gyldayn says that's due to her own descent into madness but I guess someone has told her about his condition and she did not care all that much...


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If Aegons Velaryon Queen is Alyns daughter, that would mean Alyn was the lover of his granddaughter. Since everybody in Westeros is maling such a big deal about Craster wedding his daughters, I doubt Alyn would get away with a relationship with his granddaughter.

Same goes for Daemon and Nettles. They could have been father and daughter, but of that was true, I doubt they had a relationship as well. That would take the incest a bit too far, even for Targaryens, don't you think?

As Lord Varys mentioned we do not really know if Daemon and Nettles had a sexual relationship. They said something like "he kept the girl close to himself all the time even at night" and that he refused to hunt for Aemond separately. I mean the latter just means he knew that she would not stand a chance against Vhagar on her own. The first could mean that she worried about her safety for some reason.

Daemon - by the end of the story - is the oldest male member of House Targaryen. He was responsible for the war and the realm and he could not just sail into the sunset without finishing off Aemond. It was a bit theatrical with Harrenhal and all of that, but he had to keep the dragon somewhere where it could hunt and not endanger people. And it was easier for Aemond to find him in Harrenhal than let's say some random forest by the Trident. All Alys would have seen is that he is standing by some random tree, and they would have never found him. EDIT: He could also not go to another lord, because he did not want to bring Rhaenyra's wrath on them.

Corlys lost both his adult son and daughter and his wife was too old to give him more children. They may have agreed with Rhaenys that he needs bastards around.

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After Laenor and Laena were dead, Corlys's heirs would have been his grandchildren by Laenor and Rhaenyra. Jace would take the Iron Throne after Rhaenyra, but Luke or Joff could take Driftmark. If they did not want to do that, he could have given Driftmark to either Baela or Rhaena, his grandchildren by Laena. Corlys and Rhaenys had enough heirs.


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