[Spoilers] The Princess and the Queen, complete spoilers discussion

[Veltigar]

Normally Anglo-Saxon francophobia. Nothing interesting, remotely historically correct or original about this one.

That list is VERY inaccurate:

- Gallic Wars

- Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian. [Or at ths time in history, a Roman -ed.]

- Hundred Years War

- Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman." Sainted.

-Wrong. The English eventually got their collective ass kicked out of France. And while Joan D'Arc attracts all the attention, she only participated from 1429 to 1430 (and the Hundred Years War lasted from 1337 to 1453, with a few latter comebacks.

- Italian Wars

- Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.

- Partially true. They lost against Spaniards, Austrians and Germans.

- Wars of Religion

- France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots.

- The Huguenots were French too, and eventually the Catholic side won.

- Thirty Years War

- France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

- Wrong. France was a participant, and one of the winners. Spain was the greatest loser.

- War of Revolution Devolution and The Dutch War

- Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

-Actually, Louis XIV managed to nip a lot of land from Spain, and Netherland lost its international importance to England and France. Eventually Louis XIV became over-ambitious and lost all his conquests to a huge coalition of every other European country (see War of the Augsburg League below), but that's a greater conflict than the French-Dutch War.

- War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War

- Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

- War of the Spanish Succession

- Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.

- Uh...the french managed to put one of their own on the throne of Spain...they WON the war.

- American Revolution

- In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

- Actually, America had signed an alliance with Spain and France. They were going to attack Great Britain in all fronts (America, Europe and all the colonies), but America signed a peace teatry with GB on its own, betraying its two allies, that kept fighting after America had left the conflict. GB left America alone to be able to focus on the really dangerous foes.

- French Revolution

- Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

- The Napoleonic Wars

- Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

- The Franco-Prussian War

- Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

- World War I

- Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States [Entering the war late -ed.]. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

- And again, the Americans think that they won alone every war in which their country participated...sigh!, At that time America was still a backwater with an undeveloped army. The Russian, the British and French did most of the fighting, American assistance was relatively minor compared to their own contribution.

- World War II

- Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

- War in Indochina

- Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu.

- To tell the truth, France and America both lost there.

- Algerian Rebellion

- Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

- Could have won if they had used all they had, but at that time people from civilized countries started to realize that it isn't OK for white people to keep other people enslaved just because they have darker skin. It's called "decolonization". Eventually all European countries allowed their colonies to become independent.

- War on Terrorism

- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

- Won by France, without shooting a bullet. USA spends an insane amount of money and lives, getting locked in an unending war against islamists. The islamic terrorists focus their attention on USA, leaving France alone, USA keeps the islamic terrorists in check but can't use its armed forces against other targets, losing much of its international pull. Everybody wins save USA and the islamic terrorists.

By the way, France and USA are fighting a war by proxy over the control of Africa, paying mercenaries and tyrants to fight for them...why should France aid USA, when they are fighting each other? Thanks to the "War on Terrorism" USA can't win the war against France in Africa.

:shocked: I hope you both realize that "French Military Victories" is a classic internet joke... :dunno:

In 2003, Steven Lerner, creator of Albino Blacksheep, created a parody webpage titled "French Military Victories".^[22] When typed into Google, the first result (or the "I'm Feeling Lucky" result) led to a webpage resembling a Google error message, reading, "Your search – French military victories – did not match any documents. Did you mean French militarydefeats?" The page received over 50,000 hits within 18 hours of its release. Links near the top of the page led to a simplified list of French military history. The only war listed as a win for the French was the French Revolution, in which they fought themselves. As of May 2, 2011, the page is no longer listed in Google's first few results for "French military victories", but several links on the list go to sites recounting the joke.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_bomb

[RumHam]

Re:Houses. Bigglestone, Perryn and Chambers I believe. They appear to be Riverlands. House Corne for the Reach aswell.

Thank you sir.

Thank you but I can stand my own ground. Before the password incident left me unable to reach my old account I was known to you as "Gurkhal". So I would count myself as a bit of a veteran in regards to the forums.

Excellent post Ser Lepus!

Have you tried contacting Ran or the other moderators? I bet they could reset your password for you.

[Valkyrist]

There's been a couple of podcasts on the novella, if anyone's interested:

• The Boiled Leather Audio Hour (ep. 24)

• Vassals of Kingsgrave (ep. 46)

Ours will be out in January... need time to get deep into the details and connect all those dots.

I love you guys! Can't wait to hear it.

[Lost Melnibonean]

:shocked: I hope you both realize that "French Military Victories" is a classic internet joke... :dunno:

Stop piling on. Vive la France. (But I got my money on the Americans (excuse me Latin America, I mean norteamericanos--but not the Canadians) in that proxy war in Africa.

[Siddard Stark]

Finally read Dangerous women, it was nice but i wanted to see the duel between the 2 brothers of the Kingsgaurd Ser Arryk and Ser Erryk!!!

[The hairy bear]

I tried as well, but I got the same thing.. Hairy bear, is there any other way I can send you my email adress?

I've just emptied my inbox. Please, try now.

I just tried to send you a PM and it says you cannot receive any more messages. I was going to ask for a copy but my email address is in my .sig file so that should suffice. Thanks in advance.

Sent.

[LordBloodraven]

That list is VERY inaccurate:

- Gallic Wars

- Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian. [Or at ths time in history, a Roman -ed.]

- Hundred Years War

- Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman." Sainted.

-Wrong. The English eventually got their collective ass kicked out of France. And while Joan D'Arc attracts all the attention, she only participated from 1429 to 1430 (and the Hundred Years War lasted from 1337 to 1453, with a few latter comebacks.

- Italian Wars

- Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.

- Partially true. They lost against Spaniards, Austrians and Germans.

- Wars of Religion

- France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots.

- The Huguenots were French too, and eventually the Catholic side won.

- Thirty Years War

- France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

- Wrong. France was a participant, and one of the winners. Spain was the greatest loser.

- War of Revolution Devolution and The Dutch War

- Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

-Actually, Louis XIV managed to nip a lot of land from Spain, and Netherland lost its international importance to England and France. Eventually Louis XIV became over-ambitious and lost all his conquests to a huge coalition of every other European country (see War of the Augsburg League below), but that's a greater conflict than the French-Dutch War.

- War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War

- Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

- War of the Spanish Succession

- Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.

- Uh...the french managed to put one of their own on the throne of Spain...they WON the war.

- American Revolution

- In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

- Actually, America had signed an alliance with Spain and France. They were going to attack Great Britain in all fronts (America, Europe and all the colonies), but America signed a peace teatry with GB on its own, betraying its two allies, that kept fighting after America had left the conflict. GB left America alone to be able to focus on the really dangerous foes.

- French Revolution

- Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

- The Napoleonic Wars

- Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

- The Franco-Prussian War

- Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

- World War I

- Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States [Entering the war late -ed.]. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

- And again, the Americans think that they won alone every war in which their country participated...sigh!, At that time America was still a backwater with an undeveloped army. The Russian, the British and French did most of the fighting, American assistance was relatively minor compared to their own contribution.

- World War II

- Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

- War in Indochina

- Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu.

- To tell the truth, France and America both lost there.

- Algerian Rebellion

- Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

- Could have won if they had used all they had, but at that time people from civilized countries started to realize that it isn't OK for white people to keep other people enslaved just because they have darker skin. It's called "decolonization". Eventually all European countries allowed their colonies to become independent.

- War on Terrorism

- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

- Won by France, without shooting a bullet. USA spends an insane amount of money and lives, getting locked in an unending war against islamists. The islamic terrorists focus their attention on USA, leaving France alone, USA keeps the islamic terrorists in check but can't use its armed forces against other targets, losing much of its international pull. Everybody wins save USA and the islamic terrorists.

By the way, France and USA are fighting a war by proxy over the control of Africa, paying mercenaries and tyrants to fight for them...why should France aid USA, when they are fighting each other? Thanks to the "War on Terrorism" USA can't win the war against France in Africa.

Ah, francophobia lol. Just to keep the spirit, if not for France there wouldn't be America and England would be ruled by mead-drinking, badly washed, mustachioed wildlings Saxons.

Vive la France! The country which made Europe.

Thank you but I can stand my own ground. Before the password incident left me unable to reach my old account I was known to you as "Gurkhal". So I would count myself as a bit of a veteran in regards to the forums.

Excellent post Ser Lepus!

I nearly did as you did but I succeeded in resetting my password.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Ah, francophobia lol. Just to keep the spirit, if not for France there wouldn't be America and England would be ruled by mead-drinking, badly washed, mustachioed wildlings Saxons.

Vive la France! The country which made Europe.

I nearly did as you did but I succeeded in resetting my password.

Oui, merci. There is a statue near where I live of Washington, Hamilton & Lafayette. (I was just joking around earlier.)

[alguien]

That was before the fight started. And as I said before, if she had enough money she could have done exactly the same.

Fair enough, but to this point, I honestly don't think so. I think one of only three dragons in the world was enough to tempt the Astapori to leaving themselves defenseless. Money alone wouldn't have done it. It was their greed for dragons, after having lost to them for so long, that made them foolish and vulnerable.

[Kasrith]

Finally read Dangerous women, it was nice but i wanted to see the duel between the 2 brothers of the Kingsgaurd Ser Arryk and Ser Erryk!!!

Can't believe it was omitted!

[Ser Leftwich]

So is the book:

The Princess and The Queen, or, The Blacks and The Greens - Being A History of the Causes, Origins, Battles, and Betrayals of that Most Tragic Bloodletting Known as the Dance of the Dragons by Archmaester Gyldayn

Still exist in universe? Are there many copies of it? Just one at the Citadel?

[History of Westeros]

So is the book:

The Princess and The Queen, or, The Blacks and The Greens - Being A History of the Causes, Origins, Battles, and Betrayals of that Most Tragic Bloodletting Known as the Dance of the Dragons by Archmaester Gyldayn

Still exist in universe? Are there many copies of it? Just one at the Citadel?

Ha! Great question.

[Lost Melnibonean]

So is the book:

The Princess and The Queen, or, The Blacks and The Greens - Being A History of the Causes, Origins, Battles, and Betrayals of that Most Tragic Bloodletting Known as the Dance of the Dragons by Archmaester Gyldayn

Still exist in universe? Are there many copies of it? Just one at the Citadel?

I'll bet we hear about it when Tyrion's talking to Brown Ben after the Siege of Meereen.

[Iona]

So is the book:

The Princess and The Queen, or, The Blacks and The Greens - Being A History of the Causes, Origins, Battles, and Betrayals of that Most Tragic Bloodletting Known as the Dance of the Dragons by Archmaester Gyldayn

Still exist in universe? Are there many copies of it? Just one at the Citadel?

Ran wrote a little something on this earlier in the thread:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/100284-spoilers-the-princess-and-the-queen-complete-spoilers-discussion/?p=5203453

"Gyldayn's history of the Targaryens is a lost work, parts of it rediscovered only recently. There's a story behind that which the world book will explain."

[Maia]

Check this, just saw it on "Not a Blog" in comments to one of the "Dangerous Women" posts:

http://grrm.livejournal.com/347757.html?thread=18471789#t18471789

"And there's more than you can imagine. Not only the 80,000 word version of the Dance of the Dragons, but another chunk almost as long about the power struggles during the regency that followed... and a long piece preceding P&Q, about all that went before... and... "

This is just driving me crazy! TWoW has priority, I understand, but why not publish it after TwoW? Why wait until after ADoS? ARGHH!!!

[Ser Leftwich]

Ran wrote a little something on this earlier in the thread:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/100284-spoilers-the-princess-and-the-queen-complete-spoilers-discussion/?p=5203453

"Gyldayn's history of the Targaryens is a lost work, parts of it rediscovered only recently. There's a story behind that which the world book will explain."

Thanks!

[Ran]

Presumably after ADoS because George may want to reveal some important history that would be a spoiler for the series. :)

GRRM-arillion is the very best hope people can have for anything like a novella about Robert's Rebellion, or Rhaegar and Lyanna, or the Tower of Joy.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Ran, may I ask a tiny question? Do you know Lord Tyrell and his mother's name? I don't think it would spoil anything. I'm a little obsessed with House Tyrell :devil:

[History of Westeros]

Are there any houses or settlements mentioned in The Princess and The Queen that are not mentioned in A Song of Ice and Fire or The Tales of Dunk and Egg?

I don't recall Spicetown or Hull or the Velaryon castle of High Tide being mentioned before, but perhaps they were in an appendix. I don't recall several of the places Vhagar burned as being mentioned before either.

[FC_Lymond]

I read this the last couple days. Browsed most of the thread, and was wondering whether anyone else noticed the family names reflected in the Wo5k golden company. It might point to alliances in the future books.

There are Strongs and Coles both in on the Green side and the GC. Willis Fell is on the king's guard, and House Fell (Stormlands) is one of Aegon's likeliest allies. Also on the Green side is House Hightower which many have speculated as being another Aegon/GC ally.