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[Spoilers] The Princess and the Queen, complete spoilers discussion


chrisdaw

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a book about Daemon "jump from a dragon to stab a bitch though the eye" Targaryen my word i must say my cold blood has begun to boil. I want to read it to know how daemon and his brother related how he and his wives were, since he and rhaenyra are called whores pretty much.


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Lord V, there was a ton of uncertainty about how Baelon and Rhaenys (Lord Corlys' wife) fit into the family tree. Both at some time or another have been implied to be in the line of succession.



What I would like to have cleared up is where they sit in the family tree. My Targ family tree spreadsheet has lots of question marks all over it.


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It's not about Roddy the Ruin, how could you GRRM!!! I'm not going to read such a travesty!



Joking of course :p I'll be clamoring with the rest of you addicts to get my hands on that book ASAP :cheers:


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Also, if you read GRRM's blog post there are more details - specifically that this story too is an abridged form of a larger text, and that we will have to wait for the GRRMarillion to get it in its entirety.



And also that the GRRMarillion is now to be referred to as Fire and Blood.


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Excellent news!!!



I wonder if part of this story was what was initially intended to release in "Dangerous Women", since tPatQ was also described at some point as "story of the events leading up to the Dance of Dragons" (and also Ran intially thought that Daemon was not going to die within the time frame of tPatQ).



Things I'm eager to know (and I think TRP may explain):


  • Who were Viserys and Daemon's parents.
  • What happened between Otto and Daemon.
  • What happened between Criston Cole and Rhaenyra.
  • The personalities of Laena and Laenor. Why Laenor had such a bad press afterwards?
  • Who was Harwin Strong? How was his relationship with Rhaenyra? What happened to him, and why the Strongs didn't side Rhaenyra during the war.
  • Did the rumors around the father of Jace, Luce and Joffrey have any basis?
  • How the Velaryon siblings died.
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Excellent news!!!

I wonder if part of this story was what was initially intended to release in "Dangerous Women", since tPatQ was also described at some point as "story of the events leading up to the Dance of Dragons" (and also Ran intially thought that Daemon was not going to die within the time frame of tPatQ).

Things I'm eager to know (and I think TRP may explain):

  • Who were Viserys and Daemon's parents.

What happened between Otto and Daemon.

What happened between Criston Cole and Rhaenyra.

The personalities of Laena and Laenor. Why Laenor had such a bad press afterwards?

Who was Harwin Strong? How was his relationship with Rhaenyra? What happened to him, and why the Strongs didn't side Rhaenyra during the war.

Did the rumors around the father of Jace, Luce and Joffrey have any basis?

How the Velaryon siblings died.

:agree: Pretty much this. We might also be given some information or hints as to who Daemon's friends in King's Landing were, other than the Gold Cloaks.

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New thread on TRP: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/105463-the-rogue-prince-or-the-kings-brother-a-story-about-prince-daemon-targaryen-and-possibly-the-origins-of-the-dance/



And by the way: Roddy the Ruin may have fought at the Stepstones. I've nothing to back that up, but it's possible. The guy was a seasoned warrior, at least that's what I got from 'the Ruin' nickname...


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New thread on TRP: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/105463-the-rogue-prince-or-the-kings-brother-a-story-about-prince-daemon-targaryen-and-possibly-the-origins-of-the-dance/

And by the way: Roddy the Ruin may have fought at the Stepstones. I've nothing to back that up, but it's possible. The guy was a seasoned warrior, at least that's what I got from 'the Ruin' nickname...

What I got from "the Ruin" is that he was not the most handsome men in Westeros.

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Yeah, I thought about the last one myself. But he is called 'the Ruin' throughout the whole story, and I really got the vibe that he is somewhat foreshadowing the manner in which Stannis' Northmen (especially those from the mountain clans) will face the Boltons in battle. Completely disregarding death, pain, and injuries. And those things should be most prominent, I think, in middle-aged or older Northmen, those who know or feel that they won't survive the coming winter. Considering the fact that the Dance was also fought in autumn/winter (as are the wars in present day Westeros), it's very likely that Lord Roderick Dustin was not exactly in his twenties when he died...


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New thread on TRP: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/105463-the-rogue-prince-or-the-kings-brother-a-story-about-prince-daemon-targaryen-and-possibly-the-origins-of-the-dance/

And by the way: Roddy the Ruin may have fought at the Stepstones. I've nothing to back that up, but it's possible. The guy was a seasoned warrior, at least that's what I got from 'the Ruin' nickname...

Let's hope that you are right on this one :D

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Here seems a better place to post this than the When is the World of Ice and Fire Coming out thread. Thanks to Martin's reply to Lord Vary's question on his blog We now know that Viserys I ascended to the throne dragonless. This may put the Great Council in a new light. Maybe there were some in favor of Daemon over Viserys because Daemon had a dragon.

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Thanks to Martin's reply to Lord Vary's question on his blog We now know that Viserys I ascended to the throne dragonless. This may put the Great Council in a new light. Maybe there were some in favor of Daemon over Viserys because Daemon had a dragon.

Does the math work out there? Balerion died during the reign of King Jaehaerys, and unless a date's been altered, Jaehaerys should still have been alive during the Great Council in 101 (he doesn't die until 103). Balerion was around 200 years old at his death (I assume that number was likely an approximation, given that our source was Barristan, who was no maester). For Balerion to have come from Valyria, he would have been at least 100 years old during the Conquest, possibly older. If Balerion was very young when he was brought to Dragonstone---say, as a hatchling---then his death would be positioned near the very end of Jaehaerys's reign. If he was older when the Targs left Valyria, then his death would have to have occurred earlier in Jaehaerys's reign.

Viserys would have been dragonless during the Great Council if Balerion was older than a hatchling upon leaving Valyria. But if Balerion left Valyria quite young, then this timeline would allow for Viserys to have Balerion during the Great Council, have Balerion die a year or so later, and still fulfill the "died during the reign of King Jaehaerys" and "died at 200 years of age" requirements.

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The Targaryens left Valyria in 112 BC. That would make Balerion 213 in 101 at the time of the Great Council. Balerion would have been exactly 200 in the year 88 AC.



Viserys must have been considerably older than Daemon now, I think, or else we would have to assume Viserys claimed Balerion as a young boy (Daemon was born in 81 AC). But I guess it's much more likely that Balerion did not exactly die at the age of 200, but rather at the age of 205, or 210. He could have lived to see the Great Council only to die in the last remaining years of Jaehaerys.



Linda once let it slip that Balerion died a lot closer to 200 years than 300 years before the main series (that would now point towards the nineties). But it's still likely that Balerion lived into the 2nd century.


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Vis the I flew Balerion wow he is more badass than i thought i would pick him as well. I mean now i can understand why he never rode another dragon to ride the strongest Dragon in Targaryen Rule any other would not compare for real. I can now see why the lords flocked to him the dragon of the conquer will make many lords pick you.


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So is it possible that Viserys' landslide win in 101AC was because he was Balerion's rider and NOT because he was the most competent ruler? From GRRM's description, he sounds like a charming fellow so he may have won over the Great Council with these two factors rather than being the best possible candidate.


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Balerion was dead in 101: http://grrm.livejournal.com/360936.html?thread=18794984#t18794984



And it's also confirmed what nobody really doubted, Laenor and Laena Velaryon are Rhaenys' children by Corlys, and Laena was a year older than Laenor: http://grrm.livejournal.com/360936.html?thread=18794728#t18794728



Thus Rhaenys' 'older claim' which was passed over at the Great Council (her line being the senior branch of House Targaryen going back to Prince Aemon) was passed down over her eldest child to Baela and Rhaena, who would be perfect matches for both Aegon III and Viserys II. I'm more convinced than ever now that at least one of Rhaenyra's sons marries one of Laena's daughters.


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