Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 As I said it may be a result of him being able to eat whenever he wants and/or the captivity thing. Also Drogon was always the largest, even before they hatched Ah, I hadn't noticed that, that Drogons egg was bigger.. interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Ah, I hadn't noticed that, that Drogons egg was bigger.. interesting... yes Drogon has been the biggest and has the closest connection with Dany since before he was born. Dany dreamed of him full-grown and heard his 'dragon song' before he had hatched and prior to Dany ever seeing a dragon in her whole life. She was having the connection to him in his egg, just like the Targs in PATQ. I found it very interesting that she bonded with egg (slept with it, held it close to her often) just like the Targ parents taught their children to do in PATQ so the children could bond with the unborn drgaons. Dany did it out of pure instinct, she had no parents or teachers to tell her what to do. Also in PATQ the eggs were live eggs, not ancient fossils like Dany had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 yes Drogon has been the biggest and has the closest connection with Dany since before he was born. Dany dreamed of him full-grown and heard his 'dragon song' before he had hatched and prior to Dany ever seeing a dragon in her whole life. She was having the connection to him in his egg, just like the Targs in PATQ. I found it very interesting that she bonded with egg (slept with it, held it close to her often) just like the Targ parents taught their children to do in PATQ so the children could bond with the unborn drgaons. Dany did it out of pure instinct, she had no parents or teachers to tell her what to do. Also in PATQ the eggs were live eggs, not ancient fossils like Dany had.Yeah, that it was Drogon in her dream, I had gotten that. But she slept with all the eggs, IIRC (at least 2 out of 3) at some point in the first book.It was nice to see that Dany's instincts about that were the exact same actions that the Targaryens 1,5 centuries before did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Yeah, that it was Drogon in her dream, I had gotten that. But she slept with all the eggs, IIRC (at least 2 out of 3) at some point in the first book.It was nice to see that Dany's instincts about that were the exact same actions that the Targaryens 1,5 centuries before didI have been wondering the same thing; will the other 2 dragons remember their mother when it comes down to it (or if they face off in battle). When Quentyn is in the cave Rhaegal is sniffing the female human, and Quentyn thinks 'he is looking for his mother' (IIRC). So maybe they will remember her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirRunty Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Drogon is the reincarnate of Balerion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I always felt the 3 dragons were somewhat of a reflection of the 3 human sacrifices that went into them. Drogon obviously having Drago's spirit, Viserion having MDM, and Rhaegal having Rhaego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I always felt the 3 dragons were somewhat of a reflection of the 3 human sacrifices that went into them. Drogon obviously having Drago's spirit, Viserion having MDM, and Rhaegal having Rhaego. are you the same poster as the original aryagonnakill and started a new account, or are you a separate person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 are you the same poster as the original aryagonnakill and started a new account, or are you a separate person? Same, when I joined this server I was in college, a couple months ago when the site had that problem I had no way to get my password back because my college email account was gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I find it interesting that there was no mention of any dragon horns, and that it seems Targs were taking control of their dragons the same way Dany was, being around them since birth and then mounting them. I know not everthing was mentioned in the book but considering that many people failed to claim the dragons before success and nettles specifically got hers by feeding it every day I would say it is a safe bet that they did not have a horn. I read in something that the Targs were not considered a great family in Valyria, I wonder if only the wealthier/ more prominent Valyrians had dragon horns or if they are even real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I find it interesting that there was no mention of any dragon horns, and that it seems Targs were taking control of their dragons the same way Dany was, being around them since birth and then mounting them. I know not everthing was mentioned in the book but considering that many people failed to claim the dragons before success and nettles specifically got hers by feeding it every day I would say it is a safe bet that they did not have a horn. I read in something that the Targs were not considered a great family in Valyria, I wonder if only the wealthier/ more prominent Valyrians had dragon horns or if they are even real. I think the Targaryens did away with the dragonhorns and binding spells sometime after Aegon's Conquest. While the dragonhorns may have given more effective control and a stronger bond with a dragon compared to whips, I don't think sacrificing people to gain control over the dragons would have sat well with the rest of the 7K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I think the Targaryens did away with the dragonhorns and binding spells sometime after Aegon's Conquest. While the dragonhorns may have given more effective control and a stronger bond with a dragon compared to whips, I don't think sacrificing people to gain control over the dragons would have sat well with the rest of the 7K.Is there mention of a horn during/immediately after the Conquest? I can't remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 A very interesting story for sure, but I must say I'm a little disappointed: in the beginning, the Greens tried to get the Greyjoys on their side, and I waited until the end to see a surprise Ironborn attack being the deciding factor, turning the tide of a battle, accomplishing anything, but to no avail. Did I miss something, was it omitted from the (maester version of) the story, or is Greyjoy involvement in the Dance of Dragons yet to happen (in a next installment)? One would think that with all those Hightower armies marching off to the north, Oldtown would have soon found itself overrun with longships, but the Red Kraken seemed to disappoint. Why is it that the Ironborn sit out all the major conflicts (Robert's Rebellion included)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Is there mention of a horn during/immediately after the Conquest? I can't remember that. If I were to guess, I would say the Targaryens are done with horns after the Doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lepus Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I think the Targaryens did away with the dragonhorns and binding spells sometime after Aegon's Conquest. While the dragonhorns may have given more effective control and a stronger bond with a dragon compared to whips, I don't think sacrificing people to gain control over the dragons would have sat well with the rest of the 7K. Nobody would have to know about it. If the Targayren chose to pick prisioner from the cells, a criminal sentenced to death, now and then, and use his blood as a ritual components, who would discover it, and who would really care the way felons were executed? I suspect that in between the Doom of Valyria and the appearance of the Red Comet, blood and fire magic was too weak to bind dragons. Targayrens probably discovered that soon after the Doom and had to relearn how to tame and train their dragons without magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 If the Targaryens did have a horn like Dragonbinder, they would have used it during the Dance. Rhaenyra could have taken Vhagar from Aemond, using such a horn, and there would have been no need to look for, well, stupid volunteers to mount the riderless dragons. Grey Ghost and the Cannibal could have been easily added to Rhaenyra's dragon. And the same is true for the Greens as well. They could have taken Rhaenyra's dragons from her, using such a horn. It's never mentioned that the Targaryens ever had such a horn. It's only said that the Valyrian dragonlords used such horn as well as sorcery to control their dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 If the Targaryens did have a horn like Dragonbinder, they would have used it during the Dance. Rhaenyra could have taken Vhagar from Aemond, using such a horn, and there would have been no need to look for, well, stupid volunteers to mount the riderless dragons. Grey Ghost and the Cannibal could have been easily added to Rhaenyra's dragon. And the same is true for the Greens as well. They could have taken Rhaenyra's dragons from her, using such a horn. It's never mentioned that the Targaryens ever had such a horn. It's only said that the Valyrian dragonlords used such horn as well as sorcery to control their dragons. This is what made me make my original post, after thinking some more about it I think it is likely that the Valyrians wouldn't let serious magic like that be taken out of Valyria, or that my original post was right and that the Targs were simply not rich/ powerful enough to have 1, perhaps there were only 2. I notice also that the Targs do not seem to have dragonglass candles, yet the maesters do... I wonder if the maesters were originally founded in order to try and learn Valyrian magic. Edit: A little more crackpot here, maybe a dragonhorn only needs to be blown once, by 1 member of a family, then blood keeps the magic working, anyone of the horn blowers bloodline can now take a dragon of the same bloodline of the original dragon tamed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Does a dragonhorn work on a dragon that is already bonded to a rider? That seems like a rather bizzare and dangerous thing to have lying around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Daemon hints at Valyrian civil wars that were fought on dragonback in TPatQ. This could indicate that the horns could not be used to steal the dragons of other families. In fact, this could also explain why incest marriages were so common. They ensured that the dragons really remained in the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
History of Westeros Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Daemon hints at Valyrian civil wars that were fought on dragonback in TPatQ. This could indicate that the horns could not be used to steal the dragons of other families. In fact, this could also explain why incest marriages were so common. They ensured that the dragons really remained in the family. I strongly agree with this. As we saw, House Velaryon was on their way to being the 2nd dragonriding house of Westeros. Without the Dance (or a much less bloody version of it), quite likely House Velaryon would've had several dragons within a generation or two. Jace would've taken the Targaryen name had he ascended to the Iron Throne, but assuming he had heirs, Luke and Joffrey would've been Velaryon. We hear of ~40 dragonriding families in Valyria, but surely at the start there was only one, or a handful. I imagine over the thousands of years that followed, the occasional House moved up into that select group by acquiring a dragon or two, as surely incest marriages were not always possible, (all it takes are no boy/girl pairing close enough in age, or no boys at all, I suppose). Perhaps a few of these families were cadet offshoots, but it seems likely that a few came from marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Is it possible that Aegon II rode the Cannibal after Sunfyre died? As the Cannibal was the only living dragon left on Dragonstone, and one of the only two known living dragons left in existence with the other being Silverwing, who was at Tumbelton, and the green army was retreating south. Aegon II supposedly fed GM Gerardys to his dragon, and with GM Orwyle still being alive after Sunfyre died, I think it is likely that when Orwyle died, his replacement, Gerardys, was eaten by Aegon's new dragon. I think Aegon II likely got a new dragon that no doubt reflected his personality, and the turn for the worse he had taken. Besides, the Cannibal is the black dragon who does share some references to Varys, such as feeding on hachlings and dead dragons (Varys benefited from Rhaenys and Aegon deaths and dead Targaryens) A very interesting story for sure, but I must say I'm a little disappointed: in the beginning, the Greens tried to get the Greyjoys on their side, and I waited until the end to see a surprise Ironborn attack being the deciding factor, turning the tide of a battle, accomplishing anything, but to no avail. Did I miss something, was it omitted from the (maester version of) the story, or is Greyjoy involvement in the Dance of Dragons yet to happen (in a next installment)? One would think that with all those Hightower armies marching off to the north, Oldtown would have soon found itself overrun with longships, but the Red Kraken seemed to disappoint. Why is it that the Ironborn sit out all the major conflicts (Robert's Rebellion included)?Both sides still had dragons, and it is possible that the Ironmen avoided making raids as they knew what dragons could do after what happened to Black Harren and his sons. Nobody would have to know about it. If the Targayren chose to pick prisioner from the cells, a criminal sentenced to death, now and then, and use his blood as a ritual components, who would discover it, and who would really care the way felons were executed? I suspect that in between the Doom of Valyria and the appearance of the Red Comet, blood and fire magic was too weak to bind dragons. Targayrens probably discovered that soon after the Doom and had to relearn how to tame and train their dragons without magic.I think Jaehaerys the Old King could have ended the practice of using the dragonhorn. He does sound like that kind of guy, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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