When is 'The World of Ice and Fire' coming out v.2

[The Fallen]

` So Robert Baratheon is given a book about the Targaryens and he doesn't slice it up a la Joffrey? I'm pretty sure he didn't sit down to read it.

[Fat Mac]

I'm pretty sure he didn't sit down to read it.

"That requires stealing a leaf from my brother's book. Not that Robert ever read one."

Stannis pretty answered this ;)

[Alhazred]

I don't see anyone angry at GRRM here, the frustration is directed at the publishers.

I see no justice in that. If we don't have a right to be angry at George, then perhaps we shouldn't be angry at the publishers either. I suppose even the publishers would prefer that the anonymous publisher be blamed for any reader frustration, so that George's own moneymaking popularity does not take a hit. But still. Either anthologies are justified, or they are not.

Personally, I have no real problem with anthologies. I certainly understand what Calibandar means when he refers to certain strategies as "cynical", but I'd rather save my moral outrage for worse sins.

No, Calibandar notes "George and his publisher will have realized this..." So he's blaming GRRM. And ignoring the fact that GRRM owed the publisher a story, and that's the story he could complete in time for their plans.

I'm with Calibandar here. If there is "blame" to be dispensed for reader frustration (as to which I have no strong opinions, as I said), then I see no reason why George should not share it. It takes two to tango, does it not? Did not George enter into these contracts of his own free will? And I don't see the relevance of the change of plans, since if things had gone according to plan, readers would face a similar dilemma with the Dunk & Egg story.

George has famously told his frustrated fans that he is not their bitch and he owes them nothing. Which is fine. But whose bitch is he then? Because from the way you are talking, it does not sound as though you think he is his own man.

I suppose George has missed enough deadlines and broken enough contracts that it is theoretically possible that his publisher has him by the contractual balls, and so if he does not play ball and do what he is told, his publisher will take his house, car, movie-theater, and truckloads of HBO money, run away with his wife, and leave him homeless and destitute. But normally one would suppose that he has had enough success that he ought to be able to name his own terms.

Perhaps the whim may take him to complete that unfinished 4th Dunk and Egg story... and maybe he'll then put that in the Dunk & Egg collection. Who knows?

Is there any confirmation that he even started it? Was an abandoned unfinished draft among the 250k words he submitted to the World Book?

[Ran]

There are two publishers in this discussion. Some people seem to be missing that.

GRRM attempts to fulfill his obligations when realistically possible, as he's always done. I don't think anyone has to be anyone's "bitch" for that to be the case. And I'm rather not caring for the tone of some of these posts on the matter; they're sounding pretty vitriolic.

He has definitely got the D&E story written in partial draft form. It is not a project connected to the world book, however, and of course never was.

[sifth]

There are two publishers in this discussion. Some people seem to be missing that.

GRRM attempts to fulfill his obligations when realistically possible, as he's always done. I don't think anyone has to be anyone's "bitch" for that to be the case. And I'm rather not caring for the tone of some of these posts on the matter; they're sounding pretty vitriolic.

He has definitely got the D&E story written in partial draft form. It is not a project connected to the world book, however, and of course never was.

speaking of Dunk and Egg, just currious you mentioned we'll learn more about them in this book. Will this simply be Egg's family tree and who served in his Kings Guard or will there be a more detailed story about the two.

sorry if this is out of the blue, but the coment you posted awhile back got me courious

[Ran]

There'll be quite a lot more detail about Egg's career, including stuff which sounds like it would be the subject of future stories. Dunk, too, a bit more about what happens to him between when we last saw him and presently.

[sifth]

There'll be quite a lot more detail about Egg's career, including stuff which sounds like it would be the subject of future stories. Dunk, too, a bit more about what happens to him between when we last saw him and presently.

cool, thanks for the info

can't wait

[Alhazred]

There are two publishers in this discussion. Some people seem to be missing that.

No. Nobody's missing that. It could be a zillion publishers. But George does not have to make contracts with them if he does not want to. He does not have to promise them things he has not even written yet. He does not have to agree to anthologize his stories if he does not want to. He did not have to agree to anthologize Dunk & Egg #4 in the first place. At least, that would be the ordinary assumption.

GRRM attempts to fulfill his obligations when realistically possible, as he's always done.

This does not explain why you assume he was forced to enter the contract in the first place. Since we the public are not privy to his contracts, does it not make more sense for us to criticize him (rightly or wrongly) for his public behavior?

I don't think anyone has to be anyone's "bitch" for that to be the case.

I don't assume so either. I'd rather assume he is his own man. As I said.

And I'm rather not caring for the tone of some of these posts on the matter; they're sounding pretty vitriolic.

Wow! Really? Surely you realize that "bitch" language did not originate with me. I thought it was quite the meme around here, encouraged by George himself, symbolizing the idea that he was his own man, and not a slave to his fans. Also, that I was not even criticizing George for anthologizing his stories. I'm just skeptical at this stage that, the publisher should automatically get all the blame for any reader frustration, and GRRM all the credit for any reader joy, on the basis of the theory that he is the slave to contracts he was forced to enter against his will. He probably has enough clout to set his own terms with his publisher at this point; and enough money that he does not have to sell his stories until he writes them.

I admit that I have always disliked the meme. Perhaps that is what you sense about my "tone".

[Veltigar]

There'll be quite a lot more detail about Egg's career, including stuff which sounds like it would be the subject of future stories. Dunk, too, a bit more about what happens to him between when we last saw him and presently.

You're a tease Ran! A tease I tell you :crying: :P

[CassBlackfyre]

okay so...

AWOIAF is out in 2014?

The Princess and the Queen is out ????

and Dangerous Women is out now?

am i right?

[Toccs]

okay so...

AWOIAF is out in 2014?

The Princess and the Queen is out ????

and Dangerous Women is out now?

am i right?

The Princess and the Queen is in Danegrous Women.

[CassBlackfyre]

The Princess and the Queen is in Danegrous Women.

I thought only a version of it? and that GRRM was bringing out a full book of it?

[slayer420]

I thought only a version of it? and that GRRM was bringing out a full book of it?

were getting the 30k word one in dangerous women and might get the full 80k word one when the main series is over. so many years down the road. I think that is right. also things could change it is George after all

[Alhazred]

were getting the 30k word one in dangerous women and might get the full 80k word one when the main series is over. so many years down the road.

GRRM's style has been so wordy, especially lately, that a skillful-but-aggressive editor could eliminate 65% of his text, and lose virtually nothing in the way of meaningful content.

But I'm not at all sure that is what has happened here. Ran seems to be suggesting that Dozois' version of the tale is not merely a condensation, but that it also gets cut off at a certain point.

The sample I saw seems like it STILL could be edited down a bit, without losing any meaning.

In any event, between what Dozois is going to give us, and what Ran is going to give us in a year, I am not at all sure that we are really going to be missing anything worth getting hyped up about.

[Alhazred]

I thought only a version of it?

The version in "Dangerous Women" is the only version that really exists, as far as the customer is concerned.

and that GRRM was bringing out a full book of it?

No. That's just speculation. GRRM never promised to publish a full book of "The Princess and the Queen". He merely indicated that his first draft was 80,000 words long.

His musings about a possible GRRM-arillion project, after he finishes ASOIAF, are far too distant to be meaningful. And they are not promises; merely musings. And "way down the road, after I finish ASOIAF" sounds suspiciously similar to "when pigs fly". Assuming he does manage to finish ASOIAF, he may well change his mind about what he wants to do next.

[stillbillmd]

Good Lord, this is ridiculous.

Ran, were I you, I wouldn't post one more bit of info. The sense of entitlement many seem to have and arguing-for-the-sake-of-arguing just ain't worth it.

If it had never come out that Martin had written 80,000 words of this story, no one would be crying that they're "only" getting 30k and are getting ripped off.

This reminds me of the Tolkien boards when the LOTR movies were on the launching pad.

[CassBlackfyre]

The version in "Dangerous Women" is the only version that really exists, as far as the customer is concerned.

No. That's just speculation. GRRM never promised to publish a full book of "The Princess and the Queen". He merely indicated that his first draft was 80,000 words long.

His musings about a possible GRRM-arillion project, after he finishes ASOIAF, are far too distant to be meaningful. And they are not promises; merely musings. And "way down the road, after I finish ASOIAF" sounds suspiciously similar to "when pigs fly". Assuming he does manage to finish ASOIAF, he may well change his mind about what he wants to do next.

okay thanks, i guess i was getting She-wolves and princess and the queen confused

[slayer420]

Good Lord, this is ridiculous.

Ran, were I you, I wouldn't post one more bit of info. The sense of entitlement many seem to have and arguing-for-the-sake-of-arguing just ain't worth it.

If it had never come out that Martin had written 80,000 words of this story, no one would be crying that they're "only" getting 30k and are getting ripped off.

This reminds me of the Tolkien boards when the LOTR movies were on the launching pad.

now lets not go that far :drunk: don't let a bad apple ruin it for the rest of us

[Veltigar]

know lets not go that far :drunk: don't let a bad apple ruin it for the rest of us

:agree:

[mormont]

[mod] Let's stick to the topic, ie The World Of Ice And Fire book and when it will be released. Not the Dangerous Women anthology, not the Tales Of Dunk And Egg anthology, and not anthologies in general and whether you personally think they're a good idea. Further off-topic posts will be deleted. [/mod]