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When is 'The World of Ice and Fire' coming out v.2


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Yeah, that is my theory as well. At least that Corlys believed that they were Laenors. That Addam bonded with Seasmoke out of all dragons must have reassured him.

Wasn't Laenor gay? It would be difficult for him to have bastards if he's chasing boys

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Wasn't Laenor gay? It would be difficult for him to have bastards if he's chasing boys

There are people who have taken Criston's quote to mean that Laenor was gay. However, I strongly disagree with these people :)

Ser Criston Cole spoke up. Should the princess reign, he reminded them, Jacaerys Velaryon would rule after her. “Seven save this realm if we seat a bastard on the Iron Throne.” He spoke of Rhaenyra’s wanton ways and the infamy of her husband. “They will turn the Red Keep into a brothel. No man’s daughter will be safe, nor any man’s wife. Even the boys… we know what Laenor was.”

What Criston does here, is telling the green council how Rhaenyra and Daemon like to sleep around. They'll turn the Red Keep into a brothel if they are allowed to go their own way. "Even the boys" would make no sense if they feared Laenor's love for small boys, because Laenor has been dead for at least 10 years by then. "The boys" in Criston's speech most likely refers to Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey, Laenors sons. Perhaps Laenor had some strange sexual preference, but most likely, he just liked to sleep around as well, since his marriage to Rhaenyra was most likely political, and if Rhaenyra slept around, why wouldn't Laenor do the same?

That means that Laenor's sons not only have such behavior in their blood (through Rhaenyra and Laenor), but also in their education (they were raised by Rhaenyra and Daemon), according to the greens.

Using this sentence to say "Laenor was gay" makes no sense, because Laenor has been dead a decade at least. What's left to fear?

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"A man may prefer the taste of hippocras, yet if you set a tankard of ale before him, he will quaff it quick enough."

That as well, of course. Being gay doesn't mean you were gay your entire life. If Laenor truly was gay, he might have been sleeping with girls at some point, or he was bisexual.

There are options enough for Laenor having been their father, IMO.

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The whole thing does indeed make more sense if Laenor was known to be sexual attracted to both sexes, perhaps with a long-standing relationship to another man at one point in his life.



Ser Criston's reasoning does not make sense at all, by the way. He and the Greens claim that Rhaenyra's sons by Laenor were actually fathered by Ser Harwin Strong while fearing at the same time that 'Laenor's sons' may have inherited their father's sexual appetite and preferences. That's mutually exclusive. Rhaenyra's elder sons are either Laenor's sons or Ser Harwin's sons, and they can only inherit Laenor's bad habits if they are his children (which the Greens doubt). Laenor died way too early to lead them astray by his bad example, and it's also pretty obvious in the text that all sons of Rhaenyra Targaryen are polite, nice, and courteous boys. To claim they would turn the Red Keep into a brothel is completely ridiculous.



Despite the fact that we do know pretty much nothing about Ser Harwin Strong, it's very likely that he was not attracted to men at all, or else he would most likely not have had an affair with Princess Rhaenyra, nor would it make much sense for the Greens to claim that a notoriously gay man was the father of Rhaenyra's children. Which means that if he is the father of Rhaenyra's elder sons, he would not have been able to pass along his non-existent 'gayness' and/or his overgrown sexual appetites. I very much doubt that Harwin dared bedding other people while he had his affair with Rhaenyra - if he had such an affair.



But it's still possible that Criston was referring to the bad examples of Rhaenyra and Daemon (although as of yet it's not confirmed that Daemon was attracted to men and women) when talked about 'the boys'. But the context seems to suggest that he meant Laenor.


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The whole thing does indeed make more sense if Laenor was known to be sexual attracted to both sexes, perhaps with a long-standing relationship to another man at one point in his life.

Ser Criston's reasoning does not make sense at all, by the way. He and the Greens claim that Rhaenyra's sons by Laenor were actually fathered by Ser Harwin Strong while fearing at the same time that 'Laenor's sons' may have inherited their father's sexual appetite and preferences. That's mutually exclusive. Rhaenyra's elder sons are either Laenor's sons or Ser Harwin's sons, and they can only inherit Laenor's bad habits if they are his children (which the Greens doubt). Laenor died way too early to lead them astray by his bad example, and it's also pretty obvious in the text that all sons of Rhaenyra Targaryen are polite, nice, and courteous boys. To claim they would turn the Red Keep into a brothel is completely ridiculous.

Despite the fact that we do know pretty much nothing about Ser Harwin Strong, it's very likely that he was not attracted to men at all, or else he would most likely not have had an affair with Princess Rhaenyra, nor would it make much sense for the Greens to claim that a notoriously gay man was the father of Rhaenyra's children. Which means that if he is the father of Rhaenyra's elder sons, he would not have been able to pass along his non-existent 'gayness' and/or his overgrown sexual appetites. I very much doubt that Harwin dared bedding other people while he had his affair with Rhaenyra - if he had such an affair.

But it's still possible that Criston was referring to the bad examples of Rhaenyra and Daemon (although as of yet it's not confirmed that Daemon was attracted to men and women) when talked about 'the boys'. But the context seems to suggest that he meant Laenor.

Hopefully, either the Rogue Prince or the World Book gives some more info on this.

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I'm pretty sure we'll get more than a glimpse on Rhaenyra, Laenor, and Laena in TRP. The whole story is about Prince Daemon's exploits during the reign of his brother, and who the hell should he interact with if not with his two wives and his brother-in-law. Laena apparently accompanied him on his adventures on occasion, of else Rhaena and Baela would not have been born at Pentos, I imagine.



By the way, the fact that Rhaena was named 'Rhaena of Pentos' may be a sign that another Rhaena Targaryen was still alive when she was born. If it's Jaehaerys' sister (unlikely), then she must have been younger than Jaehaerys and Alysanne. But it's much more likely that such a Rhaena was another granddaughter of Jaehaerys, perhaps a younger sister of Rhaenys, or a daughter from one of Jaehaerys' younger sons. Her children may still be around during the Dance, but not bear Targaryen names...


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Ran,



Will we get a comprehensive list of the people who have held the office of Hand of the King since its creation under Aegon I? There is a fairly good list on the wiki, but there are still some hard to place names, like Ryam Redwyne, Myles Smallwood and Septon Murmison.


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That remains a mystery. If a maester doesn't know it, it won't be in the book, I can say that much about any other questions along those lines -- no maester knows what lies beyond the Shadow, etc. :)

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That remains a mystery. If a maester doesn't know it, it won't be in the book, I can say that much about any other questions along those lines -- no maester knows what lies beyond the Shadow, etc. :)

Well I hope GRRM does tell us one day what lies beyond the Sunset Sea and the Shadow, also what murder mystery in Braavos?

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