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Victarion Chainbreaker

When is 'The World of Ice and Fire' coming out v.2

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It is more bare bones, retaining facts without the stronger narrative coloring of the novella. In some areas we chose to cut down what we had, because TPatQ covered it, and instead used it to have more detail later for things TPatQ does not cover.

Like, there's a sidebar briefly naming all of the most significant battles, but there's only a sentence or two to describe each of them. But there's more battles in that list than you hear of in the novella.

ETA: Here's the opening of the Aegon II section:

"No war was ever bloodier or crueler than the Dance of the Dragons, as the singers and Munkun have chosen to name it. It was the worst kind of war- a war between siblings. Despite Viserys’s unwavering preference for Rhaenyra, Prince Aegon was convinced to take up his father’s crown by his mother and the small council before Viserys I’s corpse was cold. When Rhaenyra, the Princess of Dragonstone, learned of it, she fell into a rage. She was, at the time, in confinement at Dragonstone, awaiting the birth of her third child to Prince Daemon."

So it covers in a few sentences what George spends about 2000 words on.

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I have a few question :3



Will we hear about magic in the east? Like stormsingers and such?


What about beastiary?



I look forward to learn more about House Tyrell, we know little and less about historical Tyrells. There are tons of Targs, Starks, Lannisters and Greyjoys.


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It is more bare bones, retaining facts without the stronger narrative coloring of the novella. In some areas we chose to cut down what we had, because TPatQ covered it, and instead used it to have more detail later for things TPatQ does not cover.

Like, there's a sidebar briefly naming all of the most significant battles, but there's only a sentence or two to describe each of them. But there's more battles in that list than you hear of in the novella.

ETA: Here's the opening of the Aegon II section:

"No war was ever bloodier or crueler than the Dance of the Dragons, as the singers and Munkun have chosen to name it. It was the worst kind of war- a war between siblings. Despite Viserys’s unwavering preference for Rhaenyra, Prince Aegon was convinced to take up his father’s crown by his mother and the small council before Viserys I’s corpse was cold. When Rhaenyra, the Princess of Dragonstone, learned of it, she fell into a rage. She was, at the time, in confinement at Dragonstone, awaiting the birth of her third child to Prince Daemon."

So it covers in a few sentences what George spends about 2000 words on.

Alright, I think I got it now. Thanks again for the info

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It is more bare bones, retaining facts without the stronger narrative coloring of the novella. In some areas we chose to cut down what we had, because TPatQ covered it, and instead used it to have more detail later for things TPatQ does not cover.

Like, there's a sidebar briefly naming all of the most significant battles, but there's only a sentence or two to describe each of them. But there's more battles in that list than you hear of in the novella.

ETA: Here's the opening of the Aegon II section:

"No war was ever bloodier or crueler than the Dance of the Dragons, as the singers and Munkun have chosen to name it. It was the worst kind of war- a war between siblings. Despite Viserys’s unwavering preference for Rhaenyra, Prince Aegon was convinced to take up his father’s crown by his mother and the small council before Viserys I’s corpse was cold. When Rhaenyra, the Princess of Dragonstone, learned of it, she fell into a rage. She was, at the time, in confinement at Dragonstone, awaiting the birth of her third child to Prince Daemon."

So it covers in a few sentences what George spends about 2000 words on.

I'm curious, was that sample that was recently released about the conquest written by you and Linda, or by Martin? I that a good indicator of the level of detail for most of the text, or an excerpt from one of those more detailed sidebars you've mentioned.

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That one's all GRRM, actually. It's the single longest piece of unabridged material from him, and was pretty much the first thing he sent our way for the world book. We figured it'd be a good way to bring Gyldayn into the narrative, since it's from his history for the Targaryens.

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Ran,



since it seems that Gyldayn wrote not only a history of the Dance, but a history of the Targaryen dynasty as well, how much does his work cover? And is only the account on the Dance recently recovered material (i.e. was merely volume 3 or 4 lost), or was his whole work lost? I remember you mentioning that the details on the Blood and Cheese incident were sort of lost to history before Gyldayn's chronicle on the Dance was recovered (I guess historians never forgot that Prince Jaehaerys was killed).



The above quote from the sidebar also suggests that Munkun's account on the Dance is older. Can you give us any details of the biographies of Gyldayn and Munkun?



Are any other major histories of the Seven Kingdoms referenced or cited throughout the older histories (i.e. the histories of the kingdoms pre-Conquest, and so forth). Surely there were maesters at the Citadel researching those topics, developing theories, and publishing stuff. This Yandel chap must have had some sources for his own work...


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Gyldayn's history goes up through the reign of Aegon V.

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There is Maester Thomax who wrote Dragonkin, Being a History of House Targaryen from Exile to Apotheosis, with a Consideration of the Life and Death of Dragons.



But it does not seem to cover the Targaryen history after the conquest.


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And I guess FIRE AND BLOOD will consist of the entirety to Gyldayn's work, from (pre-?) Conquest up to Summerhall...?



Do you have insight in the pre-Conquest history of the Targaryens - stuff that scholarly would indeed have been covered by Thomax who seems to have written a history from Aenar up to Aegon I - or is the short piece we got in the sample all the back story GRRM has written as of yet on the Dragonstone Targaryens?


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And there is The Lives of Four Kings of Grand Maester Kaeth about the lives of four Targaryen kings; Daeron I, Baelor I, Aegon IV and Daeron II, all of whose reigns are definitely important.



Oberyn and Tyrion had an interesting discussion about this book but there seemed to be a subtext which did not have much to do with the book itself in their dialogue. It is a pity we saw this through the POV of Sansa, who just does not have the ability to understand the subtext here.


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I guess there a lot of special accounts on the reigns of various kings, but Kaeth's work really seems to stand out as an extraordinary work. Tyrion and Oberyn are really pissed by the treatment Joff gives the book, and it's also evident that Tyrion hoped that Joff could learn something from the book. I guess it may be a brilliantly written character study, exploring three ways a person could suck as a king (Daeron I, Baelor I, Aegon IV), and then describing Daeron the Good as the man who embodied all the right virtues a king should have.



The subtext of the whole thing is that Oberyn seems to assess Tyrion's character - could he and Doran use him to turn him against his family? - by claiming that Viserys II had his own nephew poisoned and later sucked as king. Tyrion can easily be seen as another Viserys, or rather, it's very likely that he liked to see himself as another Viserys, sacrificing himself for the Realm/common good/the family, and being forced to deal with stupid royal nephews...


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The subtext of the whole thing is that Oberyn seems to assess Tyrion's character - could he and Doran use him to turn him against his family? - by claiming that Viserys II had his own nephew poisoned and later sucked as king. Tyrion can easily be seen as another Viserys, or rather, it's very likely that he liked to see himself as another Viserys, sacrificing himself for the Realm/common good/the family, and being forced to deal with stupid royal nephews...

The dialogue of Oberyn and Tyrion is certainly not about the old kings. Viserys II is Tyrion and Baelor is Joffrey in that dialogue. Oberyn is throwing shit to Tyrion by blaming Viserys II first and Tyrion is praising Viserys II in defense, meaning that they are talking about the same thing there. Oberyn gives the idea of Viserys II poisoning Baelor to become the king. Tyrion rejects the idea but even so, he welcomes the idea of getting the realm rid of Baelor’s follies, which gives away his disgust to Joffrey.

“Some believe Baelor was deranged by all that venom.”

“Yes,” said Prince Oberyn, “but I’ve seen no snakes in this Red Keep of yours. So how do you account for Joffrey?”

Above is a confirmation from the end of dialogue that they are actually talking about Joffrey.

Prince Oberyn smiled. “If you were a viper, my lady, would you want to bite a bloodless stick like Baelor the Blessed? I’d sooner save my fangs for someone juicier . . .”

And this is an interesting clue about Oberyn going after a much better prey than Joffrey.

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I can't speak to the precise date, but yes, it's coming out this Autumn at least.

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Ran,

Is Archmaester Gyldayn a Grey Sheep, or a very cunning Grey Leviathan ?

Dont know if it helps, but GRRM said Gyldayn was...I dont remember the exact wording, but it was something to do with not being dull.

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Ran

Do we get some more info on the Summer Islands?

And do we also get some more information and some images on some plants, trees, flowers and beast in his known world? Such as Dragon Peppers or Goldencups?

Thanks

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Quite a lot more information on the Summer Isles, at least.

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