When is 'The World of Ice and Fire' coming out v.2

[Lord Varys]

Arya Summer Child,

if you continue reading, take that route:

'The Hedge Knight'

'A Storm of Swords'

'The Sworn Sword'

'A Feast for Crows'

'The Mystery Knight'

'A Dance with Dragons

'The Princess and the Queen'

The D&E novellas were published between the novels of the main series, and there are a lot of hints and nods you don't get if you don't have read the novellas.

On the dragons ages:

That's complicated. All we know about Sheepstealer is that he hatched 'when the Old King was still young'. This could mean that he hatched at about 50 AC (which seems to be the estimation in the wiki) - Jaehaerys being king and been rather young - but also 35 AC, or 30 AC, depending on when exactly Jaehaerys was born. We don't know that yet, but there have been hints that Aegon's children (or at least Aenys) were born before the Conquest. If that's the case, then Aenys' first child could have been born as early as 15-20 AC. We know that Jaehaerys was not his eldest child, though. I'm rather in favor of Jaehaerys being born in about 20 AC or so, since only that would have made him truly old upon his death in 103 AC.

The Cannibal clearly is older and bigger than Sheepstealer, but if Gyldayn is right about Vermithor being the largest and oldest dragon alive after Vhagar's death, he cannot be much older, unless Vermithor's first rider was not Jaehaerys but one of Aenys' siblings. Then the Cannibal could also be a dragon from the first Targaryen generation, but slightly younger than Vermithor.

Come to think of it, if Aenys and his sisters were alive during the Conquest, the Targaryens might also have had more dragons - Quicksilver among them - that were too young to be ridden back then. Vermithor could have been one of them who eventually got a rider, whereas the Cannibal obviously is a dragon who bonded with no one, and eventually got out into the wild.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Arya Summer Child,

if you continue reading, take that route:

'The Hedge Knight'

'A Storm of Swords'

'The Sworn Sword'

'A Feast for Crows'

'The Mystery Knight'

'A Dance with Dragons

'The Princess and the Queen'

The D&E novellas were published between the novels of the main series, and there are a lot of hints and nods you don't get if you don't have read the novellas.

On the dragons ages:

That's complicated. All we know about Sheepstealer is that he hatched 'when the Old King was still young'. This could mean that he hatched at about 50 AC (which seems to be the estimation in the wiki) - Jaehaerys being king and been rather young - but also 35 AC, or 30 AC, depending on when exactly Jaehaerys was born. We don't know that yet, but there have been hints that Aegon's children (or at least Aenys) were born before the Conquest. If that's the case, then Aenys' first child could have been born as early as 15-20 AC. We know that Jaehaerys was not his eldest child, though. I'm rather in favor of Jaehaerys being born in about 20 AC or so, since only that would have made him truly old upon his death in 103 AC.

The Cannibal clearly is older and bigger than Sheepstealer, but if Gyldayn is right about Vermithor being the largest and oldest dragon alive after Vhagar's death, he cannot be much older, unless Vermithor's first rider was not Jaehaerys but one of Aenys' siblings. Then the Cannibal could also be a dragon from the first Targaryen generation, but slightly younger than Vermithor.

Come to think of it, if Aenys and his sisters were alive during the Conquest, the Targaryens might also have had more dragons - Quicksilver among them - that were too young to be ridden back then. Vermithor could have been one of them who eventually got a rider, whereas the Cannibal obviously is a dragon who bonded with no one, and eventually got out into the wild.

Are we sure that the quote about Vermithor being the largest dragon left after Vhagar's death included the wild dragons, rather than just the Targaryen trained dragons?

EDIT

The reason being, Vermithor is stated to be almost a hundred years old at the time of the Dance, and the wiki therefore gives his birthdate as circa 35AC.

However, with Sheepstealer being around 80 years old at the time, and with the Cannibal being confirmed as both older and larger than Sheepstealer, this leaves a very narrow window for the Cannibal's age, if he is indeed younger and smaller than Vermithor.

Basically, for the Cannibal to be markedly larger than Sheepstealer I would think you would need at least a decade or so of additional growth, as Dragons grow slower the older they get. So the difference between 80 and 90 will not be a signficant as the difference between 20 and 30, for example.

Therefore, I would think that we can pin down the Cannibal as being virtually of the same age and size as Vermithor. Possibly coming from the same batch of eggs?

[History of Westeros]

We can posit that perhaps Cannibal was older than Vermithor but still smaller.

If, for no other reason, than "one was simply larger than the other", it could be that Vermithor was much better fed than Cannibal, not being wild and all.

[Free Northman Reborn]

We can posit that perhaps Cannibal was older than Vermithor but still smaller.

If, for no other reason, than "one was simply larger than the other", it could be that Vermithor was much better fed than Cannibal, not being wild and all.

There is nothing to base that on, though.

All we know is that the Cannibal was the largest and oldest of the 3 wild dragons on Dragonstone. We know that Sheepstealer was 80 years old and quite large, but smaller and younger than the Cannibal.

We further know that Vermithor was the largest dragon of the time, after Vhagar, and that Vermithor was just under a century old.

We are not told however how much older or larger the Cannibal was than Sheepstealer, or how much larger Vermithor was than the Cannibal.

Sheepstealer at 80, Cannibal at 90, and Vermithor at almost 100 may be the scenario that best fits the evidence.

With the sizes escalating in the same sequence.

[Arya Summer Child]

Arya Summer Child,

if you continue reading, take that route:

'The Hedge Knight'

'A Storm of Swords'

'The Sworn Sword'

'A Feast for Crows'

'The Mystery Knight'

'A Dance with Dragons

'The Princess and the Queen'

The D&E novellas were published between the novels of the main series, and there are a lot of hints and nods you don't get if you don't have read the novellas.

Thank you very much!! I have planned to read novellas first and just after that start reading books :) what about "The Rogue Prince, or the King's Brother"?

And again, thank you :)

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Thank you very much!! I have planned to read novellas first and just after that start reading books :) what about "The Rogue Prince, or the King's Brother"?

And again, thank you :)

That one has yet to be released. :) But of course, once it has been released, that one you should read as well :D I imagine it will read like the Princess and the Queen, and I loved that one.

[Arya Summer Child]

I will start re-reading GoT and ACoK in June, so "The Rogue Prince" will be released then I will reach third book :D And then I will have to wait one month or two for "The World of Ice and Fire" :)

[HelenaExMachina]

I think, given what we know so far, you should read the Rogue Prince before the Princess and the Queen. It sounds like it will partly set the stage for you

[TheCrannogDweller]

Ran,

Can I get answers to my family tree questions?

1. What would be the range of the Stark family tree? Will there be a full Torrhen-to-Robb list of the Lords of Winterfell?

2. And what about the Targaryen family tree? Will there be more details (new/all family members) or would it be just putting all the characters from "The Princess and the Queen" and "Dunk and Egg" in genealogical context?

[Ran]

No comment. :)

[Arya Summer Child]

I think, given what we know so far, you should read the Rogue Prince before the Princess and the Queen. It sounds like it will partly set the stage for you

Thank you, my reading list is completed :)

[TheCrannogDweller]

No comment. :)

Ok, thanks. :)

[The Wolves]

I got a question Ran. I know it was mentioned that we will be getting portraits of some characters like a young Robert Baratheon, I think you said Aurthur Dayne, and some Targaryens, will we be getting some Starks? Like a Ned, Lyanna, or a Torrhen?

TIA

[Mark Antony]

so on Facebook that it's essentially done :) good news

[Ran]

The Wolves,

I admit, I can't recall if there are any of the Starks.

[HelenaExMachina]

so on Facebook that it's essentially done :) good news

:commie: :commie: :commie:

[The Wolves]

The Wolves,

I admit, I can't recall if there are any of the Starks.

Thank you.

Another question but since the book is like done have y'all started on the FIRE AND BLOOD world book yet like outlines and stuff or is this a go after GRRM has finished TWOW and ADOS?

[The hairy bear]

Another great new, at least for me, is that the title is no longer TV specific. "The World of Ice and Fire: The Untold History of Westeros and the Game of Thrones." works fine, and it's not demeaning to book fans.

[Ran]

Fire and Blood is post-ASoIaF. It would include all the extended Targaryen information he wrote, plus whatever else he felt like putting in there.

[John Hulboy]

Ran how you doing ? You are a man amongst men .when will I be able to get my hands on the next book to be released? My father is getting up there an has several medical issues.the books are something that has changed our lives.he ask me every day pray he gets to finish series.