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Small Questions v 10019


Stubby

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Is Torrhen's Square named after the King Who Knelt? I can't find any info on its founding in either the wiki or the app.

Since it has square towets and a square keep it probably predates Aegon's Conquest. From Jaime's chapter in Dance:

"Raventree Hall was old. Moss grew thick between its ancient stones, spiderwebbing up its walls like the veins in a crone's legs. Two huge towers flanked the castle's main gate, and smaller ones defended every angle of its walls. All were square. Drum towers and half-moons held up better against catapults, since thrown stones were more apt to deflect off a curved wall, but Raventree predated that particular bit of builder's wisdom."

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Since it has square towets and a square keep it probably predates Aegon's Conquest. From Jaime's chapter in Dance:

"Raventree Hall was old. Moss grew thick between its ancient stones, spiderwebbing up its walls like the veins in a crone's legs. Two huge towers flanked the castle's main gate, and smaller ones defended every angle of its walls. All were square. Drum towers and half-moons held up better against catapults, since thrown stones were more apt to deflect off a curved wall, but Raventree predated that particular bit of builder's wisdom."

Nice catch!

Fwiw, I asked Ran on twitter and he said: Probably not. Probably named after some other Torrhen, likely a Torrhen Tallhart.

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How many Blackfyre rebellions happened and where is the quote for that? Were there 5 more rebellions after the First and the Second, which makes a total of 7?

Five is the total, though the last seems to have been more of an attempt to conquer than a legitimate rebellion (it was part of the War of the Ninepenny Kings).

The 3rd and 4th we seem to know the least about, but at least one involved Bittersteel, perhaps both. Yronwood seems to have been a major player as well.

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Five is the total, though the last seems to have been more of an attempt to conquer than a legitimate rebellion (it was part of the War of the Ninepenny Kings).

The 3rd and 4th we seem to know the least about, but at least one involved Bittersteel, perhaps both. Yronwood seems to have been a major player as well.

Hah sorry to keep bringing up inheritance but here it is again. Didn't Daemon Blackfyre have a legitimate claim to the throne by being older than his sibling king? It seems to me if say Ned declared Jon legitimate on his deathbed and Jon was clearly older and his son then he would be the heir instead of Robb by law.

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Hah sorry to keep bringing up inheritance but here it is again. Didn't Daemon Blackfyre have a legitimate claim to the throne by being older than his sibling king? It seems to me if say Ned declared Jon legitimate on his deathbed and Jon was clearly older and his son then he would be the heir instead of Robb by law.

Daeron II was older. We don't have a birth year for him though.

ETA:

Daeron II was born the eldest son and heir to Aegon IV and his sister and wife, Naerys. After the failed Conquest of Dorne, King Baelor the Blessed, arranged the marriage of his cousin Prince Daeron to Princess Myriah Martell of Dorne as part of a dual marriage pact between the two kingdoms. He also officiated at the wedding ceremony.

- wiki

Also from the wiki:

Daeron was past his forties when he ascended to the Iron Throne. He negotiated the marriage of his much younger sister Daenerys to Prince Maron Martell, the ruling Prince of Dorne.[4] Thereby Daeron joined Dorne to the Seven Kingdoms, finally uniting all of Westeros south of the wall, two hundred years after Aegon the conqueror first envisioned it.

Daeron II ascended in 184, and Daemon was born in 170. So Daeron was significantly older.

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Hah sorry to keep bringing up inheritance but here it is again. Didn't Daemon Blackfyre have a legitimate claim to the throne by being older than his sibling king? It seems to me if say Ned declared Jon legitimate on his deathbed and Jon was clearly older and his son then he would be the heir instead of Robb by law.

In theory, a legitimized bastard should come behind all trueborn sons and daughters of a lord. In truth, most of the time it comes down to who has the most support politically and militarily. However for political reasons this is almost always going to be the trueborn sons. Still there is a reason that Ned (presumably) lied to Catelyn that Jon was younger than Robb. For example if Robert Arryn had a bastard brother who was slightly older and showed promise with a sword or lance, I bet the Lords Declarant would have tried a different tact. By rallying around this hypothetical bastard of Jon Arryns they could have challenged Robert and thus his Lord Regent.

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Five is the total, though the last seems to have been more of an attempt to conquer than a legitimate rebellion (it was part of the War of the Ninepenny Kings).

The 3rd and 4th we seem to know the least about, but at least one involved Bittersteel, perhaps both. Yronwood seems to have been a major player as well.

I think it could be 6. The first ended at Redgrass, much to the disapointment of Penny Jenny. The second ended before it got started at Whitehall with Bloodraven taking Daemon II hostage agaimst Bittersteel and Daemon's younger sons. It's important to note that Bitter steel was not at Whitehall since we learn that Yronwood rode three times with BS so there must have been two more, apparently before TWOT9PK, since Maelys commanded the GC. That would be five, including three with BS, the stillborn rebellion, and TWOT9PK, which was the last. Bit note that one of the GC captains used the plural when talking about BS and the otherS who followed, suggesting that there was another rebellion after BS bit before Maelys.
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I think it could be 6. The first ended at Redgrass, much to the disapointment of Penny Jenny. The second ended before it got started at Whitehall with Bloodraven taking Daemon II hostage agaimst Bittersteel and Daemon's younger sons. It's important to note that Bitter steel was not at Whitehall since we learn that Yronwood rode three times with BS so there must have been two more, apparently before TWOT9PK, since Maelys commanded the GC. That would be five, including three with BS, the stillborn rebellion, and TWOT9PK, which was the last. Bit note that one of the GC captains used the plural when talking about BS and the otherS who followed, suggesting that there was another rebellion after BS bit before Maelys.

Agreed. the Yornwood quote suggests there were five Blackfyre Rebellions during Bittersteel's lifetime alone. One could argue that the "rebellion" at whitewalls ended before it began, when for whatever reason (His homosexuality?) Bittersteel chose not to support Daemon II, nor grant him Blackfyre.

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Am I right in thinking that there is an error in the wiki about Daeron II's age? He ascended in 184. His grandfather Viserys II was born in 123. There is no way for Daeron to be born in 140s but the wiki says he ascended when he was in his 40s.



I think I know where this misunderstanding came from. In his descriptions for Amok, GRRM described Daeron as he was in his 40s. He didn't say he came to the Iron Throne then. Besides, when giving a description of Aegon the Unworthy, he described him in the peak of his decadence which happened a while after his coronation. Aegon came to the Iron Throne "young and handsome", yet only 12 years later his son inherits in his 40s?



Doesn't sound likely.

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Am I right in thinking that there is an error in the wiki about Daeron II's age? He ascended in 184. His grandfather Viserys II was born in 123. There is no way for Daeron to be born in 140s but the wiki says he ascended when he was in his 40s.

I think I know where this misunderstanding came from. In his descriptions for Amok, GRRM described Daeron as he was in his 40s. He didn't say he came to the Iron Throne then. Besides, when giving a description of Aegon the Unworthy, he described him in the peak of his decadence which happened a while after his coronation. Aegon came to the Iron Throne "young and handsome", yet only 12 years later his son inherits in his 40s?

Doesn't sound likely.

Maybe you've uncovered the true cause behind the Blackfyre rebellion! But yes I can understand sons coming before uncles, but logically to me a legitimized bastard should come before an older son if he is older. If a bastard can become an heir and then his children are suddenly able to inherit it doesn't seem like a stretch to me to say legitimized bastards should take priority. They are legitimate after all!

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I'm hoping Mindchap or Rum Ham will square me away...

the 3rd, 6th, and 9th Tyrion chapters we see him actually play. Cyvasse is mentioned in Tyrions 8th chapter also

ETA Fuck i get muddled with chapters, someone check pls.

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