Lost Melnibonean Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I think Tyrion really hates himself. He just has this excuse to hate Jaime.Tyrion was physically and emotionally abused as a child. This one girl genuinely loves him and gives him a taste of true happiness. Then his brother, whom he worships, tells him it was all a farce and he actually partcipates in gang raping her at his father's direction because of his brother's representation. And he goes on being emotionally abused. And even after he proves his valor, after which he should have been knighted for his service at the very least, again he was emotionally abused. Then when all stood against him his brother rescued him. But Tyrion then learned the truth about the onecperson who ever truly loved him and he learned of his brother's role in the deception... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinton07 Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 do we know how robert reacted when Tywin presented him with Rhagear's children. I think it was in a ned POV but i cant find it and idk if it was actually ever described or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sertravisredbeard Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I think it's said Robert turned his head. In Kevan's POV it says no one looked for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 do we know how robert reacted when Tywin presented him with Rhagear's children. I think it was in a ned POV but i cant find it and idk if it was actually ever described or notNed: Ned did not feign surprise; Robert’s hatred of the Targaryens was a madness in him. Heremembered the angry words they had exchanged when Tywin Lannister had presented Robertwith the corpses of Rhaegar’s wife and children as a token of fealty. Ned had named that murder;Robert called it war. When he had protested that the young prince and princess were no morethan babes, his new-made king had replied, “I see no babes. Only dragonspawn.” Not even JonArryn had been able to calm that storm. Eddard Stark had ridden out that very day in a cold rage,to fight the last battles of the war alone in the south. It had taken another death to reconcile them;Lyanna’s death, and the grief they had shared over her passing.According to Tywin: Lord Tywin stared at him as if he had lost his wits. “You deserve that motley, then. We had come late to Robert’s cause. It was necessary to demonstrate our loyalty. When I laid those bodies before the throne, no man could doubt that we had forsaken House Targaryen forever. And Robert’s relief was palpable. As stupid as he was, even he knew that Rhaegar’s children had to die if his throne was ever to be secure. Yet he saw himself as a hero, and heroes do not kill children.”Kevan(and I put this in spoiler tags for graphic content)“A feigned boy is what he has,” said Randyll Tarly. “That may be. Or not.” Kevan Lannister hadbeen here, in this very hall when Tywin had laid the bodies of Prince Rhaegar’s children at the foot ofthe Iron Throne, wrapped up in crimson cloaks. The girl had been recognizably the Princess Rhaenys, butthe boy … a faceless horror of bone and brain and gore, a few hanks of fair hair. None of us looked long.Tywin said that it was Prince Aegon, and we took him at his word.I think there are more references but this was all I could find at the moment. I could swear there is one about Robert looking away but I can't find it at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Ned: According to Tywin: Kevan(and I put this in spoiler tags for graphic content)A feigned boy is what he has, said Randyll Tarly. That may be. Or not. Kevan Lannister hadbeen here, in this very hall when Tywin had laid the bodies of Prince Rhaegars children at the foot ofthe Iron Throne, wrapped up in crimson cloaks. The girl had been recognizably the Princess Rhaenys, butthe boy a faceless horror of bone and brain and gore, a few hanks of fair hair. None of us looked long.Tywin said that it was Prince Aegon, and we took him at his word.I think there are more references but this was all I could find at the moment. I could swear there is one about Robert looking away but I can't find it at the moment.I don't have my book right now but I think it was Selmy. I think it's something along the lines of, "he had the decency to look away, if he had smiled o would have run him through"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I don't have my book right now but I think it was Selmy. I think it's something along the lines of, "he had the decency to look away, if he had smiled o would have run him through"...But that was just Selmy wondering, he wasn't actually there:“Prince Rhaegar had two children,” Ser Barristan told him. “Rhaenys was a little girl, Aegon a babe in arms. When Tywin Lannister took King’sLanding, his men killed both of them. He served the bloody bodies up in crimson cloaks, a gift for the new king.” And what did Robert say when hesaw them? Did he smile? Barristan Selmy had been badly wounded on the Trident, so he had been spared the sight of Lord Tywin’s gift, but oft hewondered. If I had seen him smile over the red ruins of Rhaegar’s children, no army on this earth could have stopped me from killing him. “I willnot suffer the murder of children. Accept that, or I’ll have no part of this.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 But that was just Selmy wondering, he wasn't actually there:Ah, thanks. Couldn't remember if he said it or thought it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmholt Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Tyrion was physically and emotionally abused as a child. This one girl genuinely loves him and gives him a taste of true happiness. Then his brother, whom he worships, tells him it was all a farce and he actually partcipates in gang raping her at his father's direction because of his brother's representation. And he goes on being emotionally abused. And even after he proves his valor, after which he should have been knighted for his service at the very least, again he was emotionally abused. Then when all stood against him his brother rescued him. But Tyrion then learned the truth about the onecperson who ever truly loved him and he learned of his brother's role in the deception... Tyrion is a bit hypersensitive - we see that Tywin is hard on all the kids. Not having a mother and being blamed for her death probably is the main reason for his difference. He plays the dwarf card a lot when it isnt the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Ah, thanks. Couldn't remember if he said it or thought it.... I think that may have been the one I was thinking about too though, cause I remembered the looking away part. I think it's time for a new re-read. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Tyrion is a bit hypersensitive - we see that Tywin is hard on all the kids. Not having a mother and being blamed for her death probably is the main reason for his difference. He plays the dwarf card a lot when it isnt the problem. Being hated by your father and sister would be difficult for every child. The only people who ever truly showed him love were Jaime and Tysha. When Jaime told Tyrion he had bought Tysha for him, Tyrion did not doubt him for a second. The only reason Tyrion is willing to look past all of Jaime's mistakes, is because Jaime is the only direct family member that shows Tyrion affection. Tyrion doesn't believe any woman will ever love him truly - So when he discovers Jaime had lied about Tysha, and that Tysha had truly loved him, it is only natural for Tyrion to be furious at Jaime. Tyrion spoke heated words in anger, and has a lot of time to think about it. But instead of thinking about it, he tries not to think about Jaime at all. I wonder if, should the two brothers ever see each other again, Tyrion is capable of forgiving Jaime. Neither Cersei nor Tywin ever held any love for Tyrion, so surely, Tyrion must still feel some affection for his elder brother, very deep down inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Being hated by your father and sister would be difficult for every child. The only people who ever truly showed him love were Jaime and Tysha. When Jaime told Tyrion he had bought Tysha for him, Tyrion did not doubt him for a second. The only reason Tyrion is willing to look past all of Jaime's mistakes, is because Jaime is the only direct family member that shows Tyrion affection. Tyrion doesn't believe any woman will ever love him truly - So when he discovers Jaime had lied about Tysha, and that Tysha had truly loved him, it is only natural for Tyrion to be furious at Jaime. Tyrion spoke heated words in anger, and has a lot of time to think about it. But instead of thinking about it, he tries not to think about Jaime at all. I wonder if, should the two brothers ever see each other again, Tyrion is capable of forgiving Jaime. Neither Cersei nor Tywin ever held any love for Tyrion, so surely, Tyrion must still feel some affection for his elder brother, very deep down inside. What about his uncle gerion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 What about his uncle gerion? Tyrions uncles and aunt seem to have been kind to him, though I'm sure they weren't constantly around. Genna lived with her Frey husband, and Gerion has been gone for six years before aGoT begins. Tygett has been death a long time as well. Kevan seems to have been kind to Tyrion as well. But I was speaking about Tyrions direct family. His father, his mother, his brother and his sister. Those would have been the most important in Tyrions life. I'm sure it would hurt more if your father hated you, then if your uncle hated you. For siblings goes the same. But that's just my opinion :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Tyrion is a bit hypersensitive - we see that Tywin is hard on all the kids. Not having a mother and being blamed for her death probably is the main reason for his difference. He plays the dwarf card a lot when it isnt the problem.I agree. But his being pissed off at the world is well deserved by the world in which lives. Hes uniformly considered a subhuman monster or freak and a shame on his house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 What about his uncle gerion?Did he love him or love to laugh at hIm to spite Tywin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostcause Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Someone please refresh my memory. Were the Targs exiled from Old Valyria? And if so do we know why that was? If they weren't, do we know why they are the last remaining Valyrians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dornishman's Widow Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Someone please refresh my memory. Were the Targs exiled from Old Valyria? And if so do we know why that was? If they weren't, do we know why they are the last remaining Valyrians? They weren't forcibly exiled. Though their status was called "exile", it was self imposed because one of them had had a vision of Valyria's doom. BTW, many Valyrian colonists, travelers etc have survived (the Free Cities are mostly Valyrian ex-colonies). Targaryens were the only dragonlords who survived though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Someone please refresh my memory. Were the Targs exiled from Old Valyria? And if so do we know why that was? If they weren't, do we know why they are the last remaining Valyrians? They left because Dany the dreamer foresaw the doom. That's why they were the only ones left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Targaryens were the only dragonlords who survived though.Is that definitive or is it just that we don't have any proof to the contrary and it would make the most sense given what we know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dornishman's Widow Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Is that definitive or is it just that we don't have any proof to the contrary and it would make the most sense given what we know?There is an SSM confirming that they were the only dragonriders to survive the Doom. There still could be survivors of the other principal dragonlord families who didn't ride a dragon I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLostStark Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Do you think the song " The Day they Hanged Black Robin" could be about an ancestor of Meryn Trant. Being his family sigil is a hangman in black in a blue field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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