Bakker 亀 Anarcane Turtles All the Way down

[Shryke]

Well, I mean, they had gates. One assumes they only bothered with that because men were poking around trying to cross the mountains before that in the first place. I imagine it wasn't in force till the Tusk came along.

Hell, the Nonmen probably went over to grab the ancestors of the Emwama.

[Sci-2]

Oooh, good stuff. So that basically covers most of that.

I do think Bakker meant to say - or Pat meant to transcribe - that the Aporos Quya made the first chorae rather than men from the Gnostic Schools?

[Goodbye World]

Hell, the Nonmen probably went over to grab the ancestors of the Emwama.

How do you even know that the Emwama came from Eanna?

By the way, I had thought that this thing about the Inchoroi giving the Tusk to the Ketyai was something that I missed in the last two books after reading about it in the wiki, glad to know he revealed it in an interview, but I'm also puzzled as to why he would do that.

[Shryke]

I do think Bakker meant to say - or Pat meant to transcribe - that the Aporos Quya made the first chorae rather than men from the Gnostic Schools?

Yes, that's consistent with everything we know from every other source.

[Callan S.]

On Maithanet possibly being alive - why half-ass the beard dye job of an imposter?

Did he want Esmi to notice?

Why not use a glamour....though can glamours work on the Few, or does any Few who looks upon an Illusion see the Mark?

Could simply be an error by an underling and Esme is just bright enough to spot the error.

Though if it was a skin spy, wouldn't it's face have fallen open when it died?

Could just be a look alike - Mathanet's been culturing some look alike for a time, perhaps.

[Chun-Li]

By the way, I had thought that this thing about the Inchoroi giving the Tusk to the Ketyai was something that I missed in the last two books after reading about it in the wiki, glad to know he revealed it in an interview, but I'm also puzzled as to why he would do that.

Yeah he would have left it and let Aurax reveal that the last 4,000 years of history have been the result of Inchoroi trolling.

[Goodbye World]

Yeah he would have left it and let Aurax reveal that the last 4,000 years of history have been the result of Inchoroi trolling.

Well, he said that most of it was stories and laws that were hallowed by those men, so it's not outright trolling. It's similar to the trolling that we've victim to here on earth actually, except in Earwa the gods are real.

[Sci-2]

How do you even know that the Emwama came from Eanna?

By the way, I had thought that this thing about the Inchoroi giving the Tusk to the Ketyai was something that I missed in the last two books after reading about it in the wiki, glad to know he revealed it in an interview, but I'm also puzzled as to why he would do that.

I'm guessing it was a gift to online fandom, and the reality of the Tusk will be revealed in the text when Aurax/Aurang recall their glory days.

I think Aurax is the character I'm most excited to see in TUC.

Could simply be an error by an underling and Esme is just bright enough to spot the error.

Though if it was a skin spy, wouldn't it's face have fallen open when it died?

Could just be a look alike - Mathanet's been culturing some look alike for a time, perhaps.

I feel like Esmi was close enough to the body that any deception would be revealed. I also don't think Bakker will be hokey enough to bring back Maitha, Cnauir, or Big Moe.

What likely happened is Maitha's half human side caught up with him, and Bakker mentions the discrepancies to remind us of that half moments before the WLW strikes.

[Happy Ent]

I guess that's why the infodump and the various nations aren't that special to me - they're such clear 1:1 mappings of specific real historical nations and specific real historical cultures that them being put into this history just seems kinda lazy.

A valid opinion.

Still, I’m sure this is a deliberate inversion of Tolkien. Tolkien wanted to give a mythology to the English based on established narrative traditions, such as the Edda, Nibelungenlied, Kullervo (fictional history based on known myth). Bakker wants to write a fantasy epic based on established historical facts (fantasy fiction based on known history).

[Callan S.]

I feel like Esmi was close enough to the body that any deception would be revealed.

She had some hair that needed removing about then. As Uncle Holy would be capable of predicting.

I also don't think Bakker will be hokey enough to bring back Maitha, Cnauir, or Big Moe.

Ouch! Such careless resort to the meta-fiction!

This is the guy who brought space aliens into D&D, yah?

And yet at the same time, such disparate elements can have their reasons for combining. Same goes for a particularly shifty bunch of bastards (though Cnauir still follows a certain narrative, like he somewhat followed those of his people. I don't think we'll see him break free of the narrative and return. And unless Moe was a fake, physics is the final narrative that you can't dodge. Dead is daiiid!)

[Goodbye World]

Didn't Bakker say that Cnaiur's arc has ended with TTT? Unless he was outright lying of course, I can't see him coming back. Also, I don't expect any full Dunyain to appear or for Moenghus to reappear, the story needs only one God-like Dunyain who is Kellhus, if other characters with his intellect start popping about it will complicate things to no end. Unless Bakker halfasses it like making the Dunyain who are not kellhus a bunch of idiots (and that's what they acted like by sending Kellhus to meet his father, and letting Moenghus escape in the first place).

As for Maithanet, he's dead people. Get over it. The thing with the beard is just a red herring, after all Bakker also said that the books are filled with red herrings.

ETA: I googled Aurax to see if there is any fanart of him and this is what came up.

[Sci-2]

A valid opinion.

Still, I’m sure this is a deliberate inversion of Tolkien. Tolkien wanted to give a mythology to the English based on established narrative traditions, such as the Edda, Nibelungenlied, Kullervo (fictional history based on known myth). Bakker wants to write a fantasy epic based on established historical facts (fantasy fiction based on known history).

Nice!

I think Bakker's use of countries similar to those found in real life is meant for fans to try and suss out the parallels between his nations and those of the world. Part of this works to add meat to the setting without extraneous info-dumping, and part of it is associate Earwa with the idea of a biblical Earth.

For D&D fans, think Oerth->Yerth->Earth. Parallel worlds with descending levels of magical energy/possibility.

She had some hair that needed removing about then. As Uncle Holy would be capable of predicting.

Ouch! Such careless resort to the meta-fiction!

This is the guy who brought space aliens into D&D, yah?

And yet at the same time, such disparate elements can have their reasons for combining. Same goes for a particularly shifty bunch of bastards (though Cnauir still follows a certain narrative, like he somewhat followed those of his people. I don't think we'll see him break free of the narrative and return. And unless Moe was a fake, physics is the final narrative that you can't dodge. Dead is daiiid!)

Heh, I admit a lot of my thinking about what happens in the series is based on the story I think Bakker wants to tell.

But it's less about Bakker as an individual and more what any author striving to make literature would do.

[Francis Buck]

Still, I’m sure this is a deliberate inversion of Tolkien. Tolkien wanted to give a mythology to the English based on established narrative traditions, such as the Edda, Nibelungenlied, Kullervo (fictional history based on known myth). Bakker wants to write a fantasy epic based on established historical facts (fantasy fiction based on known history).

Interesting.

I think Aurax is the character I'm most excited to see in TUC.

Same (along with more Shae). I feel like there's a good reason he's been in the background for so long (aside from, presumably, the scene in TWP). I also found it interesting that Aurax was the one who taught the Mangecca to use the Tekne.

I have a question. Where is the scene located (which book I mean) where we get a big view of Goltgotterath? I believe it's described as being almost like a city or something. I think it happens during one of the Seswatha dreams, where he's trying to invade the Ark with Nau-Cayuti, but I've no clue whatsoever which book that would be in (though I assume later on in the series).

[Sci-2]

Akka has dreams about Seswatha entering the Ark in TTT.

I recall the vastness of it described in that book. In WLW there's more talk about the exterior and the passage that leads to the light (Inverse Fire?).

[Francis Buck]

You're both right, actually; I was thinking of portions from a each book.

I've been gradually purchasing Kindle versions of the series over the last few weeks, and man, it makes finding obscure little passages like this so much fucking easier. It's awesome.

I love my goddamn Kindle (until it does some stupid little thing that utterly infuriates me...but that's relatively infrequent).

[Callan S.]

after all Bakker also said that the books are filled with red herrings.

Where did he say this?

[Goodbye World]

R. Scott Bakker Interview (from 2011):

- In THE WHITE-LUCK WARRIOR we get some hints about the stakes that are being played for, the notion that the Consult want to reduce the population of Earwa to a specific decimal number which has Biblical significance. Was your intention here to draw a direct parallel between the story of Kellhus and the Great Ordeal and that Biblical source, or was it merely an easter egg and the correlation itself is not significant?

Is an ‘easter egg’ the same thing as a herring? If so, there’s a whole whap of them in the books.

[Sci-2]

Imagine the Inchies were simply wrong, and that their entire escapade is faith based. They realize they are damned, and so conclude their Book of Revelation must be real.

People have been making those kinds of logical errors throughout the series, so it isn't far fetched to think the Consult's goal of reducing the population is nothing but a desperate hope.

[Sci-2]

Uh...it's a bit misleading to say that it's new. It is from the release of the previous book in 2011.

The title of the post at Pat's is "New Interview". Ideally though the poster will change it.

[Goodbye World]

Uh...it's a bit misleading to say that it's new. It is from the release of the previous book in 2011.

Sorry, I only copied the title of post like Sci-2 said. But I changed it to avoid misleading anyone.