Who poisoned the locusts?

[BitsOfBrains]

The "confectioner" story is quite dubious too. Shavepate tells the tale that "Hizdahr's confectioner" was forced to supply poisoned locusts because the Sons of the Harpy kidnapped his young daughter. Really, the king of Meereen can't get some poisoned food cooked up without kidnapping and murder? And then the Harpy killed the kidnapped daughter anyway despite the risk that the poisoner would then talk and implicate them? The tale reeks of "I'm gonna make up the worst-sounding story I can to convince Selmy that the enemy are ruthless thugs impossible to reason with, and torture some random dude into a false confession, as is my modus operandi."

I agree that the confectioner story is dubious, and does sound like someones made up, "bad guy" fantasy.

It could either be that Skahaz made it up because he is convinced Hizdahr did it and just used, "deduction".

We also know that Skahaz isn't opposed to torture, so maybe he just tortured the shit out of the confectioner and he spun them a horrible story "Blue Bard" style.

[bemused]

I agree the Shavepate's story could be a crock. In fact I fully expect there will turn out to be something wrong with it, which is why I hope to see Barristan's interrogation ( or some other POV ) to shed light on the matter.

But for now, the whole poisoning was obviously ( to me) not designed to be lethal, and Dany's affair with Daario so recent and well known as to cast doubt on the paternity of any child born to Dany ..With the GG apparently being aware of Hazzea , when she shouldn't have been , and her coming and going as the "negotiator" of the peace,etc., I think she and Hizdahr have to be kept in the frame...This doesn't mean I think Skahaz is trustworthy , or has no agenda other than to support Dany.

If "peace" simply means a cessation of open hostilities , while carrying on with trying to erode Dany's power by subterfuge , that's not peace to me. Peace that leads to eventual subjugation and probable death, is a peace not worth having , in my estimation. I can't see them stopping at merely pushing Dany to the sidelines. The dragons would have to go,the unsullied be absorbed somehow, and then what need would there be to allow her to live ?

[dragonsrule]

I agree the Shavepate's story could be a crock. In fact I fully expect there will turn out to be something wrong with it, which is why I hope to see Barristan's interrogation ( or some other POV ) to shed light on the matter.

If "peace" simply means a cessation of open hostilities , while carrying on with trying to erode Dany's power by subterfuge , that's not peace to me. Peace that leads to eventual subjugation and probable death, is a peace not worth having , in my estimation. I can't see them stopping at merely pushing Dany to the sidelines. The dragons would have to go,the unsullied be absorbed somehow, and then what need would there be to allow her to live ?

I disagree about the peace..sure the other side will continue to try to erode Dany's position, meanwhile she will be doing the same with them (by getting alternative trade routes going, getting the freedmen properly trained as soldiers etc.) But they will both be continuing the fight without bloodshed, which is a good thing. Reduction is violence also allows for the possibility that some of these people may come to change their minds and moral position, whereas if violence continues you will just have hatred increasing.

[DolorousRed]

For me, the Harpy is the person (or persons) with the strongest motives for wanting Dany dead. Both Hiz and the Shavepate depend, in some part, on Dany for their own power. The Sons of the Harpy want a return to the status quo ante, with Dany dead, her freedmen enslaved and a return to business as usual. Hiz, to my mind, is a patsy for the Harpy. They plan to use his amibition to become the King of Meereen as a way to get a controlable replacement for Dany in position before they strike at her. If Dany were killed before the marriage, it's mass chaos and who knows who comes out on top. With Dany dead and Hiz in charge, the Sons and their outside allies would be able to destroy the unsullied and the freedmen while enusring the survival of the pre-Dany power structure. Hell, the Harpy may have even hoped that Dany's allies would blame Hiz for the poisoning and use his death as an excuse to have the foreign forces outside the city break the peace they'd negotiated.

[bemused]

I disagree about the peace..sure the other side will continue to try to erode Dany's position, meanwhile she will be doing the same with them (by getting alternative trade routes going, getting the freedmen properly trained as soldiers etc.) But they will both be continuing the fight without bloodshed, which is a good thing. Reduction is violence also allows for the possibility that some of these people may come to change their minds and moral position, whereas if violence continues you will just have hatred increasing.

But doesn't that depend on who you see as the opposite sides ? Peace doesn't just rely on Dany and her opposition in Meereen ,but ultimately, all the other cities who rely on the slave trade,

We see that Dany has already had to agree to some compromise.. before Volantine involvement. ... And who knows who else has just been sitting on the fence ?

[Queen Whore]

I like the abortifacient theory.

It might be important to note that many of these types of drugs work as prostaglandins. These work to cause contractions of the smooth muscle of the uterus and also, in Strong Belwas' case, those of the digestive tract. Prostaglandins can cause major diarrhea and vomiting, especially as large of dose as he would have ingested. He would have been wracked with pain!

[The Lady Raven]

not sure on who actually did it, but I am sure it wasn't Hizdar-- too soft. Too out of his character. He is opportunistic but not stupid-- knows the reprecussions

[Ygrain]

I like the abortifacient theory.

It might be important to note that many of these types of drugs work as prostaglandins. These work to cause contractions of the smooth muscle of the uterus and also, in Strong Belwas' case, those of the digestive tract. Prostaglandins can cause major diarrhea and vomiting, especially as large of dose as he would have ingested. He would have been wracked with pain!

You mean, just like Dany has at the end of ADWD? :-)

[BitsOfBrains]

You mean, just like Dany has at the end of ADWD? :-)

Yeah I think its at least hinted that Dany was pregnant and miscarrying.

I am fairly certain Hizdahr would have known she was pregnant (no moon blood for a few months) and would have had to try and "cleanse" her.

[Nictarion]

Yeah I think its at least hinted that Dany was pregnant and miscarrying.

I am fairly certain Hizdahr would have known she was pregnant (no moon blood for a few months) and would have had to try and "cleanse" her.

Why though? A child would only solidify his power as king of Meereen. It would be impossible to prove it wasn't his. Dany oly starting sleeping with Daario right before she married Hizdahr.

[Ygrain]

Why though? A child would only solidify his power as king of Meereen. It would be impossible to prove it wasn't his. Dany oly starting sleeping with Daario right before she married Hizdahr.

I think that "right before" would still cause the child to be born very "prematurely".

[Wise Fool]

Maybe we're thinking about this all wrong. What if the poisoning of the locusts wasn't meant to kill Dany, but because someone really hated locusts? Think. Who had the motive and the means to wage a genocidal war against locusts? The answer is so obvious I don't even need to point it out.

[Nictarion]

I think that "right before" would still cause the child to be born very "prematurely".

Were talking a couple weeks though. Not sure the exact timeline, but the second time we see Dany have sex with Daario is the night before her wedding.

[Ygrain]

Were talking a couple weeks though. Not sure the exact timeline, but the second time we see Dany have sex with Daario is the night before her wedding.

As she is trying to recollect the date of her last period, she missed at least one and perhaps two. That's more than a couple of weeks.

[Nictarion]

As she is trying to recollect the date of her last period, she missed at least one and perhaps two. That's more than a couple of weeks.

Oh yeah, your right, my mistake.

[bemused]

Why though? A child would only solidify his power as king of Meereen. It would be impossible to prove it wasn't his. Dany oly starting sleeping with Daario right before she married Hizdahr.

Besides the timing ,the Meereenese are at least as obsessed with pure or noble bloodlines as other societies ... Here's the Green Grace on the subject ,when Dany asks why she suggests Hizdahr , not Skahaz...

“Skahaz is Kandaq, Hizdahr Loraq. Your Radiance will forgive me, but only one who is not herself Ghiscari would not understand the difference. Oft have I heard that yours is the blood of Aegon the Conqueror, Jaehaerys the Wise, and Daeron the Dragon. The noble Hizdahr is of the blood of Mazdhan the Magnificent, Hazrak the Handsome, and Zharaq the Liberator.

And ...

“We are an old people. Ancestors are important to us. Wed Hizdahr zo Loraq and make a son with him, a son whose father is the harpy, whose mother is the dragon. In him the prophecies shall be fulfilled, and your enemies will melt away like snow.” ( It's not only marriage that is wanted. )

We don't know if there is a real Ghiscari prophecy ( or more than one ), but if there is , it's quite possible it has more to do with the line of Loraq .. or the GG wanting it to be realized through the line of Loraq ( think Mel and Stannis ).. more to do with the father being the harpy, than the mother being the dragon ( Is a dragon even specified in this prophecy ?).. At any rate, Dany herself doesn't fulfil their prophecy any more than she fulfilled the Dothraki prophecy .. so if she died once she'd delivered the heir... it would be no great loss to them...I can't imagine they'd want to pass off the son of a sellsword as their savior / great leader / whatever.

( And if there isn't already a prophecy , who better than the GG to invent one , or suddenly receive one from the God(s) ? )

[Mithras]

I think the poison wasn't meant to kill. Belwas ate a whole bowl, and didn't die (though he was very strong). I think that was the point - if Dany ate a few locusts, she would be sick and it would be evident that she was poisoned. But the Shavepate didn't plan for her to die. He expects Dany to mistrust Hizdar, and break her peace with the Harpy because of this.

This. Shavepate didnot mean to kill, he does not need to.

[RK Rajagopal]

This. Shavepate didnot mean to kill, he does not need to.

And the best thing about the plan is that even if somebody else other than Dany eats the locusts, it still gives him an excuse to break the peace and gain favor. In fact, even if Dany died (by say eating the whole bowl), the Shavepate could have planned to take advantage of it by blaming the Harpy and taking control of the Dany loyalists (Unsullied, freedmen) and the Brazen Beasts. It looks like no matter what happens, the Shavepate likely gains.

[Moondancer]

Hizdhar. (an accomplice, at least) Found this -

Ser Jorah saved me from the poisoner, and ARSTAN Whitebeard from the manticore. Perhaps Strong Belwas will save me from the next.

... And so it happened.

[DaeronDrumm]

Whoever it was, it sure wasn't Hizdahr or the Green Grace: They had zero reason whatsoever to murder Dany at that point. The fighting pits were back in business, they had been allowed to buy the starving masses back into slavery, and they'd gotten themselves a royal match. Dany's army was still occupying Meereen and she had no convenient pliable younger sister to marry in her place. Openly Tyrelling Dany before she and Hizhdahr had an heir was an absurd move.

It makes more sense for the poisoner to be Shakaz, using a non-lethal poison to shatter the peace treaty between Dany and the Harpy. But it appears it turned out to be for the best: Once Yurkhaz was trampled to death and Dany fled on Drogon, if Barry hadn't deposed Hizhdahr and essentially formed a junta with the Shavepate, the city would have fallen to the slaver alliance.