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VarysForKing

The Winged Shadow (*aDwD Spoilers*)

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Though I'm new to posting I've been a long time fan of the board and have seen lots of discussion regarding the lacking size of Dany's dragons this far in the series, as well as questioning if they will be ready to do battle once they've reached Westeros, potentially against an army of Others. Yet after reading some of the pre released chapters from the upcoming aDwD I think the answer is now clear, not all of them might be big enough or viscious enough for war when the final confrontation arrives...but one will be. In one of Dany's sample chapters we learn that both Rhaegal and Viserion have been subdued and confined to one of Mereen's many fighting pits, a consequence of Drogon's killing a young boy, a fact which is revealed in the epilouge of aFfC. Drogon however, the black beast who since the beginning has continuously stood out as the largest. fiercest, and most capable of the three, has managed to elude capture and has now fled the city. We have already learned from Barristan that dragons possess the capability of unlimited growth just as long as open space and adeqaute food are provided, and we know that Drogon will have little problem fending for himself unconstrained amidst the country side. It's a fact that human children experience perhaps their most rapid growth between one and three years of age, a span that Dany's own "children" currently fall within. To me it seems this new found independence of Drogons has come at an optimal time, and that by the time he is brought under control he could be more massive and intimidating than any of us have yet thought possible. It has already been said that the "Winged Shadow" is Balerion of old reborn, and I believe this statement holds more truth in it than we know. I don't discount the fact that Viserion and Rhaegal will indeed play large roles in the upcoming battles, but I think its clear that in the end the fate of the whole Seven Kingdoms will be determined by Drogon, and that he will without a doubt be ready to lay waste to any forces opposing Dany. The only questions now are who will ride the ferocious monster if he can indeed be tamed, and if his lack of control and wild nature will perhaps lead to him most easily falling under the grasp of Euron Crow Eye's mystical dragon horn? A possible scenario that could prove more than disastrous to the Targeryn cause, and add to the "bittersweet" ending foretold by Martin...

The sweet part of this would be that Westeros is saved and the people are happy. The bitter part would be that they had to rely on one of the most infamous men ever to save them: Euron Crow's Eye. This would definently be a twist worthy of GRRM. The heroes wouldn't have saved the world (they will have a big part though) but the villains. :smoking:

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Nah, if you actually read the question and reply, GRRM just mentions two random characters that we hadn't met yet at that time in order for someone to get a book related custom title. I wouldn't put to much emphasis on their importance based on this, other than GRRM thought they had 'cool' nicknames.

Harold Hardyng (Harry the Heir) is the heir to the Eryie, (say that 5 times fast) and is going to be the betrothed of Sansa here pretty soon. Might be important at some point.

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Harold Hardyng (Harry the Heir) is the heir to the Eryie, (say that 5 times fast) and is going to be the betrothed of Sansa here pretty soon. Might be important at some point.

If Littlefinger dosen't off him, then mary Sansa as Lord Paramount of the Trident/Lord of the Vale.

:dunno:

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Think about this. The Golden Company was formed by Targaryen bastards. Namely Bittersteel and his sons.They are coming to meet Dany. They are the most skilled mercenary company on the planet. What if one of these bastard descendants is a dragon Warg. He jumps into Drogon and challenges Dany, or helps dany control her dragon. Maybe they marry? Hence A dance with Dragons.

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I like Varysforkings theory on Drogon. I wonder too, if Drogon becomes by far the biggest and wildest of the three, that he is the rider that mounts the world way back when pregnant Dany was checked out by the crones.

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It's far in medieval times.

My take on the title, A Dance With Dragons (and yes, the 'with' is important) has to do with all the different parties going to Dany right now: Tyrion, Quentyn (Dorne), Victarion (ironborn), Marwyn (who knows? - on behalf of prophecy fulfillment?) Each of these parties will be "dancing" with Dany, trying to gain her favor and support. There's also the idea of dancing as a means of courtship, and supposedly some of these people are trying to get Dany's hand in marriage. I see the title pertaining to the fact that many different enemies from Westeros will be vying for Dany.

This is what I think too. after reading AFFC it seems pretty clear that we will have several characters all trying to manipulate/help Dany and her dragons. I don't think any individual party will be willing to abandon their primary goal. It will be very difficult for Dany to choose the right one and not upset the rest. They all want to dance with her and make sure they come out on top.

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Yet after reading some of the pre released chapters from the upcoming aDwD I think the answer is now clear, not all of them might be big enough or viscious enough for war when the final confrontation arrives...but one will be. In one of Dany's sample chapters we learn that both Rhaegal and Viserion have been subdued and confined to one of Mereen's many fighting pits, a consequence of Drogon's killing a young boy, a fact which is revealed in the epilouge of aFfC.

I seem to remember reading that the Targaryen kings kept their last dragons penned up, and as a result the growth of these dragons was stunted. We don't know much about the intelligence or motivations of dragons, but one of Dany's sample chapters makes clear that Rhaegal and Viserion are very unhappy in confinement - perhaps unhappy enough to break their love for Dany? In addition to the possibility of being smaller than Drogon (perhaps too permanently stunted to ever be flown at all), maybe the two confined dragons will also lose their willingness to obey Dany?

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The last dragon laid 5 eggs. And their were more on dragon stone. The mystery knight from the warriors anthology left so many questions unanswered. Bittersteel has the sword, the royal family all the dragon eggs. Their are a lot of targ blood still around decendants of bittersteel, fireball, their may still be blackfyre descendant among the golden company. ADWD could have huge battle scenes with dragons on both sides.

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If Drogon does get out of control, who best to control it than a Warg? Or better yet a Warg with half Targaryen blood...

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If Drogon does get out of control, who best to control it than a Warg? Or better yet a Warg with half Targaryen blood...

I don't really see wargs being the be-all end-all to dragons. If it was that simple, why have we never heard of wargs taking control of the invasion and conquest of Westeros? I'm pretty sure they existed back then and considering the considerable power dragons have, someone must have tried. Unless Targs were wargs too, which begs the question of who wasn't a warg?

I think the bond between Targ and dragon is special. Something unique to their genetic code that almost no one else has. It may explain the House's tendency to interbreed to preserve (and monopolize) their ability to control dragons. I don't think general wargs can do it. And I'll believe the Valyrian horn when I see it (although if anything other than a Targ can control dragons it would be an artifact of the old empire).

But regardless, I think what Dany is finding out is just as dragons as not slaves, they are not horses either. You can't lock em up in stables or they'll be smaller and weaker. You cannot let them freely roam or there are likely to kill children and livestock. Instead, they require a lot of time and patient training - Dany's real successes came when she spent most of her day with them locked up in a cabin. They may also require a one-on-one relationship, as I think most Targs dealt with them in that fashion.

I also do not think it is any accident that just as Dany was digust over the fighting pits, Drogan flies down, roasts human and boar alike, and hisses to the horrified crowd. There probably is some special link between Targs and dragons and Drogan may have thought that its "mother" would be pleased. Or maybe it was acting out for attention like children sometimes do when neglected by their parents.

What Dany is probably learning is the royal need for good underlings. Aerys's downfall can probably be traced to as much to the failure to manage underlings effectively as it was to Robert's military might. Right now, Dany should be mostly focused on training and raising her "I win" buttons and leaving most of the day-to-day to a capable hand. If she lacks a capable hand, she needs to recruit one asap. The problem of dragon raising may have been the reason behind the King's hand historically. Thankfully, there is someone with some previous experience in that area heading to her direction.

As others have noted, Dany's and Cersei's chapters were meant to be read simultaneous. I think what we're seeing is both queens faltering because the lack of good underlings, while Dany will ultimately learn from the experience while Cersei will not. Also, Drogon pulling the fighting pit stunt will negatively impact Dany's rule over Mereen and encourage her to start moving.

As far as "Dances with Dragons" interpretations go, I'm with Bitter Company theory folks. But there is plenty on that subject in other threads.

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I don't really see wargs being the be-all end-all to dragons. If it was that simple, why have we never heard of wargs taking control of the invasion and conquest of Westeros? I'm pretty sure they existed back then and considering the considerable power dragons have, someone must have tried.

I'm not so sure about this. The ability to warg (yes, it's a verb (now)) seems to be something that manifests only among people who have blood of the First Men in their veins, so wildlings mostly, and maybe some random Northerner every now and then. The Conquest took place only about 300 years ago, when wildlings had already been living behind the Wall for thousands of years if legends are to be believed. Would some Joe "Warg" Wildling really risk climbing over the Wall and traveling all the way to south just to chase a rumour about dragons, who were living in the middle of first an army and later the capital, and probably very well guarded too? I doubt it.

I agree that there is some kind of magical extra connection, maybe a kinship, between Targs and dragons, though. Blood of the dragon, and all that jazz.

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A warg? No. But a skinchanger from the most powerful bloodline of skinchangers? (The Starks) Yes.

Bran the Broken has already shown that he can actually slip inside a man. While Hodor is a simpleton, he is no mere eagle or wolf.

Bran's injury along with his Stark blood will allow him to become the most powerful skinchanger who has ever lived. That is his gift; that is his fate. That is where Bran's tale has been heading since Jaime pushed him from the tower.

Bran = Drogon.

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