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[tPatQ SPOILERS] Daemons friend...


Inquisitor Glokta

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...on the green council is?



Let's take a look at the green council, from which we can immediately eliminate most of the members:



- Alicent Hightower


- Otto Hightower



I guess it's safe to assume, neither one of the Hightowers would be in bed with Daemon




-Ser Criston Cole - the Kingmaker



Not a big fan of neither Rhaenyra nor Daemon, so he's off the table too.




-Larys Strong - Master of Whispers



I had my eye on him at first, but after the end of the novella, he's off the table as well




- Tyland Lannister - Master of Coin



Got torturted for information, if he would have worked with Daemon, he would given it up freely without hesitation.




- Jasper Wylde - Master of Laws



Inisisted up until his death, that a son comes before a daughter. Se he seems like a no too.




- Grand Maester Orwyle



The only one left and if Daemon spoke the truth about having someone on the green council, it must be Orwyle. The question is, did Orwyle help Blood&Cheese, or not?


If he did I'm shocked, that he would risk the life of the royal children. He must have known that Daemon would want to avenge the death of Rhaenyra's son.





On a side note:



The Master of Whispers called Larys smuggles Aegon II out of the RK and the city.



The former Master of Whispers in asoiaf called Varys claims to have smuggled baby Aegon VI out of the RK and the city.



Odd coincidence, that their names are so similar, or is it? ;)


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Process of elimination would point to Orwyle. He doesn't sound too unsympathetic to the black course either (he opted for negotiations, he admitted Rhaenyra's claim when he was an envoy).



The only other option I can think of is that there might be unnamed minor characters on the green council (not all councillors need be entrusted with concrete positions in the government, e.g. Rhaenyra's sons are on the black council iirc, or Oberyn Martell during his short tenure at Joff's council).



Larys, Varys, babysmugglers btw... that's a nice parallel. Probably a deliberate nod by GRRM to his main series.


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[...]Second TDW-- nice catch on the Varys/Larys parallel. Wonder if there are others.

I would love to claim the credit for that one, but it belongs to Glokta I fear. Still, to earn back at least some of the praise I'll add that there's another parallel: Both spymasters have a physical defect adding to their enigmatic persona and marking them as outsiders. Larys had a clubfoot, Varys was a eunuch. Come to think of it, Bloodraven was an albino, that makes three.

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I would love to claim the credit for that one, but it belongs to Glokta I fear. Still, to earn back at least some of the praise I'll add that there's another parallel: Both spymasters have a physical defect adding to their enigmatic persona and marking them as outsiders. Larys had a clubfoot, Varys was a eunuch. Come to think of it, Bloodraven was an albino, that makes three.

:lol: Actually I was "seconding" your praise of Glokta, but now that I re-read, I can see that my phrasing was poor. Sorry!

Good further parallel though, exactly what I was driving at... it might be fruitful to sit down and search more of those out. For instance, when I read Glokta's post about the royal baby smuggling, I immediately noted that in both cases there were an older princess and a very young/infant prince. Not that Rhaenys was smuggled away, but I wondered if we're supposed to make something of the similarity. For example-- Princess Jaehaera was sent to the Baratheons. You could make a case that Rhaenys' fate was in the hands of the Baratheons. Prince Maelor was sent to the Hightowers. Could that be a hint that the Hightowers were involved with the Aegon plot? :dunno:

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:lol: Actually I was "seconding" your praise of Glokta, but now that I re-read, I can see that my phrasing was poor. Sorry!

Good further parallel though, exactly what I was driving at... it might be fruitful to sit down and search more of those out. For instance, when I read Glokta's post about the royal baby smuggling, I immediately noted that in both cases there were an older princess and a very young/infant prince. Not that Rhaenys was smuggled away, but I wondered if we're supposed to make something of the similarity. For example-- Princess Jaehaera was sent to the Baratheons. You could make a case that Rhaenys' fate was in the hands of the Baratheons. Prince Maelor was sent to the Hightowers. Could that be a hint that the Hightowers were involved with the Aegon plot? :dunno:

I guess I will have to make another thread, to concentrate on the Larys/Varys parallels.

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- Grand Maester Orwyle

The only one left and if Daemon spoke the truth about having someone on the green council, it must be Orwyle. The question is, did Orwyle help Blood&Cheese, or not?

If he did I'm shocked, that he would risk the life of the royal children. He must have known that Daemon would want to avenge the death of Rhaenyra's son.

If it was Orwyle, then why did the Gold Cloaks arrest him and throw him in the black cells? Also does Daemon strike you the type of guy to be buddies with an old Maester? Either way, the friend on the council does not seem to have had anything to do with Blood and Cheese. It clearly says he reached out to this other "special friend" for that.

he had allies at court as well, even on the green council … and one other go-between, a special friend he trusted utterly, who knew the wine sinks and rat pits that festered in the shadow of the Red Keep as well as Daemon himself once had, and moved easily through the shadows of the city. To this pale stranger he reached out now, by secret ways, to set a terrible vengeance into motion.

Personally I think his friend on the council might have been Larys, but that friendship wasn't enough to sway Larys to the black cause when the war broke out. Sorta like how Arryk and Erryk were brothers, but ended up on opposite sides.

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Orwyle is the best candidate for it. Especially since that would explain why Archmaester Gyldayn does not give us the name of Daemon's man on the Green council in the story. He would be wise to downplay the role maesters play in court intrigue.



More importantly, Orwyle also seems to be the logical choice to be source for the conversations on the Small Council upon Viserys's death (he would have been the one in charge of the protocol). If he was really a Green, then why would he rely to the afterworld all that unpleasant stuff Alicent, Otto, and Criston Cole said about Rhaenyra, Laenor, their children, and Daemon? Wouldn't he try to paint them in a much better light - as Septon Eustace tries to do in his report on how Aegon II reacted when Criston Cole tried to convince him to the take the crown?



That the Goldcloaks later arrested Orwyle when Daemon and Rhaenyra took the city does not need to mean all that much. He apparently did not have the time to give explicit orders to his men among the City Watch. They just decided to act as they knew Daemon would want them to when they saw Caraxes appearing above the city. Orwyle then completely disappears from the story, so we don't know if he is reinstated, killed, or vanishes into thin air. But since we are told what happens to Ser Tyland, Ironrod, and Ser Otto, I'd not be surprised if Rhaenyra did reinstate Orwyle as Grand Maester after she has taken the city...


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Orwyle is the best candidate for it. Especially since that would explain why Archmaester Gyldayn does not give us the name of Daemon's man on the Green council in the story. He would be wise to downplay the role maesters play in court intrigue.

More importantly, Orwyle also seems to be the logical choice to be source for the conversations on the Small Council upon Viserys's death (he would have been the one in charge of the protocol). If he was really a Green, then why would he rely to the afterworld all that unpleasant stuff Alicent, Otto, and Criston Cole said about Rhaenyra, Laenor, their children, and Daemon? Wouldn't he try to paint them in a much better light - as Septon Eustace tries to do in his report on how Aegon II reacted when Criston Cole tried to convince him to the take the crown?

That the Goldcloaks later arrested Orwyle when Daemon and Rhaenyra took the city does not need to mean all that much. He apparently did not have the time to give explicit orders to his men among the City Watch. They just decided to act as they knew Daemon would want them to when they saw Caraxes appearing above the city. Orwyle then completely disappears from the story, so we don't know if he is reinstated, killed, or vanishes into thin air. But since we are told what happens to Ser Tyland, Ironrod, and Ser Otto, I'd not be surprised if Rhaenyra did reinstate Orwyle as Grand Maester after she has taken the city...

Good points. You've convinced me it probably was him.

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Orwyle is the best candidate for it. Especially since that would explain why Archmaester Gyldayn does not give us the name of Daemon's man on the Green council in the story. He would be wise to downplay the role maesters play in court intrigue.

More importantly, Orwyle also seems to be the logical choice to be source for the conversations on the Small Council upon Viserys's death (he would have been the one in charge of the protocol). If he was really a Green, then why would he rely to the afterworld all that unpleasant stuff Alicent, Otto, and Criston Cole said about Rhaenyra, Laenor, their children, and Daemon? Wouldn't he try to paint them in a much better light - as Septon Eustace tries to do in his report on how Aegon II reacted when Criston Cole tried to convince him to the take the crown?

That the Goldcloaks later arrested Orwyle when Daemon and Rhaenyra took the city does not need to mean all that much. He apparently did not have the time to give explicit orders to his men among the City Watch. They just decided to act as they knew Daemon would want them to when they saw Caraxes appearing above the city. Orwyle then completely disappears from the story, so we don't know if he is reinstated, killed, or vanishes into thin air. But since we are told what happens to Ser Tyland, Ironrod, and Ser Otto, I'd not be surprised if Rhaenyra did reinstate Orwyle as Grand Maester after she has taken the city...

To add to this, I was re-reading this morning and noted this exchange at the Council meeting between Ser Otto, GM Orwyle and Ironrod:

"Do them no violence unless they resist," Ser Otto Hightower commanded. "Such men as bend the knee and swear fealty to King Aegon shall suffer no harm."

"And those who will not?" asked Grand Maester Orwyle.

"Are traitors," said Ironrod, "and must die a traitor's death."

It could be me, but I thought it was possible Orwyle's question indicated personal concern... Faced with the dead body of Lord Beesbury and this conviction of his fellow councilors that all who oppose them must die, it's likely that this was the moment that Orwyle decided to keep his true loyalties secret. He then cleverly arranges to have himself sent as envoy to Dragonstone, where he most likely had every opportunity to meet secretly with Daemon.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think you're on to something. I suspect Larys worked both sides, manipulating the war from the shadows. He's the reason both sides get information allowing them to react to the other's moves. In a way he prolong the war endlessly. But for what reason? For those believing the Citadel manipulating events: could Lord Larys Strong be their agent, manipulating events so that the maximum number of dragons would die.


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On a side note:

The Master of Whispers called Larys smuggles Aegon II out of the RK and the city.

The former Master of Whispers in asoiaf called Varys claims to have smuggled baby Aegon VI out of the RK and the city.

Odd coincidence, that their names are so similar, or is it? ;)

You've got it all wrong. Larys is the ancester of Lharys Mohor and Kurlekut.
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