[Book & Show Spoilers]The "Episode 9" Moment of Season 4 - Part 2

[Le Cygne]

Hyperbole is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.

Hint: none of us actually thinks Ygritte will be pregnant on the show.

Maybe he means devastating in the sense of a game changer... Any sort of battle is destructive and more so from the perspective of the losing side. This one was pretty brutal.

[John Dorian]

If the Tywin, Catelyn, and Lysa scenes are all in the finale, it's going to feel like way more of an "OMG Episode 9" than the actual episode 9.

[imaginepageant]

Now that I've reread ASOS, I'm doubtful that the battles at the Wall will be the big end-of-season event. The Magnar's attack from the south happens immediately after Jon returns, and Mance's attack from the north immediately follows that. There's no way they can leave them until episode nine, unless the showrunners create an entirely new storyline to keep Jon and Sam busy for the other eight episodes, but then they'd also have to keep Stannis busy with another entirely new storyline during that time. But contrarily, they're speeding up Theon and Yara's storylines, which means they'll eventually have to either fast-forward Stannis or slow-mo Theon and Yara in order for them to meet up. Also, both trailers feature quite a bit of footage of what appears to be the battles at the Wall, and make no secret about the wildlings' impending attack. I have a hard time believing they would give away that much of the end-of-season event in trailers; they certainly didn't for the previous three seasons.

Similarily, postponing Tyrion's escape and murder of Tywin and Shae until the finale means he'll spend the entire season sitting in his cell or at the trial. I can't seriously see that happening, especially since they can't really keep Tyrion busy with yet another entirely new storyline, seeing as he's, you know, stuck in jail. And if they stretch out Tyrion's storyline, what will Jaime do in the meantime? What will Cersei do? And if they slow down Tyrion now but push on with Daenerys in Meereen, they'll later have to rush through Tyrion's journey through Essos or keep Daenerys busy until he reaches her. It's a terrible snowball effect.

I know Neil Marshall has more or less said the battles for Castle Black and the Wall happen in episode nine, but I simply can't see them stretching the last 300 pages of ASOS into one season. Not enough happens to warrant an entire season—at least not a very entertaining one, not unless the showrunners take a lot of liberty with making up new storylines.

I'm only just finishing my reread ASOS, and I don't remember enough of AFFC or ADWD to imagine what else they might end the season with. Anyone else have any ideas?

[Colonel Green]

Now that I've reread ASOS, I'm doubtful that the battles at the Wall will be the big end-of-season event. The Magnar's attack from the south happens immediately after Jon returns, and Mance's attack from the north immediately follows that. There's no way they can leave them until episode nine

...

I know Neil Marshall has more or less said the battles for Castle Black and the Wall happen in episode nine

I'm not clear what your argument is. It's been made quite clear from Marshall and others that the battles at the Wall are in episode 9, as you acknowledge.

unless the showrunners create an entirely new storyline to keep Jon and Sam busy for the other eight episodes

Jon is leading a party to Craster's to punish the mutineers.

but then they'd also have to keep Stannis busy with another entirely new storyline during that time.

Stannis isn't going to be in the season much, per his actor and Melisandre's. And we know from the promo photos that he goes to Braavos to meet with the Iron Bank.

And if they stretch out Tyrion's storyline, what will Jaime do in the meantime? What will Cersei do?

They're both involved in the trial story.

[Nathan Clement]

will they have maybe Arya go to Braavos earlier in the season or wait to season 5? i am wondering because except for really the Sam interaction, her story is completly isolated from everyone elses and it seems like a couple other storylines are being pushed back?

[imaginepageant]

I'm not clear what your argument is. It's been made quite clear from Marshall and others that the battles at the Wall are in episode 9, as you acknowledge.

My argument is that, in the books, literally nothing happens between Jon returning to Castle Black and the wildlings' attacks, so I don't understand what they would fill those eight episodes with.

Jon is leading a party to Craster's to punish the mutineers.

That will help... but I still don't see that alone lasting for eight episodes. There will have to be some new side plot, possibly involving the mutineers and/or Rast's sacrificing, to keep them busy. Unfortunately. I understand the show must deviate from the books to some degree, but I don't relish the idea of one of the most central characters being detoured so far from his story; two if you count Stannis, not to mention all the other characters this may affect.

I'They're both involved in the trial story.

Yes, but the trial can only be stretched so far. If the royal wedding happens on episode two and Tyrion's escape in episode nine or ten, that's six or seven episodes of the trial. Seven or eight episodes of Tyrion stewing in his cell, of Cersei pacing around angrily and demanding justice, of Jaime giving his brother pep talks and/or practicing fighting with his left hand. That doesn't sound like riveting television to me. Again, they will have to make a lot of stuff up to keep certain characters occupied while other characters crawl through their storylines. I'm just hoping that isn't what happens.

[Colonel Green]

Episode 3 - initial detention.

Episode 4 - looks for champions, can't find any.

Episode 5-7 - actual trial, including Red Viper offering to champion him.

Episode 8 - trial by combat

Episode 10 - escape, etc.

Jaime's clearly going to be replacing Kevan, and also dealing with Brienne, Sansa's escape, etc. Cersei will be trying to keep the Tyrells away from Tommen, putting the screws to Shae (or whatever), and all that. Really, there's far more happening in King's Landing this season than last.

[imaginepageant]

Episode 3 - initial detention.

Episode 4 - looks for champions, can't find any.

Episode 5-7 - actual trial, including Red Viper offering to champion him.

As I said, that doesn't sound like riveting television, especially since it will play out more like:

Episode 3: Tyrion sits around in his cell. Jaime and Bronn visit. There are some sad, bitter conversations.

Episode 4: Tyrion sends Podrick to find witnesses, and sits around in his cell doing nothing until Podrick returns empty-handed.

Episode 5: Some witnesses testify against Tyrion. Tyrion seethes, maybe makes a couple of angry quips.

Episode 6: Some more witnesses testify against Tyrion. Tyrion seethes, has his "I am guilty of being a dwarf" outburst.

Episode 7: Shae testifies against Tyrion. Oberyn offers to be Tyrion's champion in trial. Tyrion requests trial by combat.

Really, only episode 7 would have anything interesting. We don't need two entire episodes of Tyrion whining to Jaime, Bronn, and Podrick about the lack of justice in King's Landing, and we definitely don't need three entire episodes devoted to the trial, considering A. 95% of the witnesses in the book don't even exist in the show, and B. they all give pretty much the same testimony anyway. Tyrion's initial imprisonment should be condensed to one episode, and the trial itself could be condensed into one, possibly two episodes. That would have the battle at episode five or six, with Tyrion's escape in six or seven.

My point is simply that, for the first three seasons, the show has had to condense 1000+ pages of storyline into ten episodes, fast-tracking a lot of ponderous events into a tight, intense story with good momentum. It doesn't make sense for them to now stretch 300 pages of storyline into ten episodes, slowing down a lot of relatively quick events into a sluggish, tedious story with very little momentum.

[Colonel Green]

My point is simply that, for the first three seasons, the show has had to condense 1000+ pages of storyline into ten episodes, fast-tracking a lot of ponderous events into a tight, intense story with good momentum. It doesn't make sense for them to now stretch 300 pages of storyline into ten episodes, slowing down a lot of relatively quick events into a sluggish, tedious story with very little momentum.

They already slowed things down in King's Landing last year, so, again, nothing new.

[DaveyJoe]

Maybe Tyrion doesn't need 3-5 scenes every episode this year, how horrible would that be?

[Rashtibram]

As I said, that doesn't sound like riveting television, especially since it will play out more like:

Episode 3: Tyrion sits around in his cell. Jaime and Bronn visit. There are some sad, bitter conversations.

Episode 4: Tyrion sends Podrick to find witnesses, and sits around in his cell doing nothing until Podrick returns empty-handed.

Episode 5: Some witnesses testify against Tyrion. Tyrion seethes, maybe makes a couple of angry quips.

Episode 6: Some more witnesses testify against Tyrion. Tyrion seethes, has his "I am guilty of being a dwarf" outburst.

Episode 7: Shae testifies against Tyrion. Oberyn offers to be Tyrion's champion in trial. Tyrion requests trial by combat.

Really, only episode 7 would have anything interesting. We don't need two entire episodes of Tyrion whining to Jaime, Bronn, and Podrick about the lack of justice in King's Landing, and we definitely don't need three entire episodes devoted to the trial, considering A. 95% of the witnesses in the book don't even exist in the show, and B. they all give pretty much the same testimony anyway. Tyrion's initial imprisonment should be condensed to one episode, and the trial itself could be condensed into one, possibly two episodes. That would have the battle at episode five or six, with Tyrion's escape in six or seven.

My point is simply that, for the first three seasons, the show has had to condense 1000+ pages of storyline into ten episodes, fast-tracking a lot of ponderous events into a tight, intense story with good momentum. It doesn't make sense for them to now stretch 300 pages of storyline into ten episodes, slowing down a lot of relatively quick events into a sluggish, tedious story with very little momentum.

I'm thinking more like something along the lines of:

4x03: Jaime and Bronn visit Tyrion in his cell. Bronn refuses to champion for Tyrion, Jaime fills him in on the current situation.

4x04: The bulk of Tyrion's trial. Ser Meryn, Cersei and Varys testify against him.

4x05: Oberyn visits Tyrion in his cell and offers to champion for him.

4x06: Shae testifies against Tyrion, Tyrion has his "guilty of being a dwarf" outburst and reveals that Oberyn will champion for him.

4x07: (Insert added Tyrion scene: maybe Tyrion discusses fighting tactics with Oberyn, or Varys visits, or something.)

4x08: Oberyn vs. Gregor

4x10: Tyrion's escape, Tywin and Shae's deaths.

We don't need more than 1 or 2 Tyrion scenes per episode. I think this layout makes for a much more entertaining KL arc than the one we got last year, to say the least.