New interpretation of "A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd."

[mrlukeduke]

A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd.

My latest theory is that this possibly refers to the dragon(s) painted on the sails of the Ironborn ship(s) in the recent The Winds of Winter Tyrion I chapter. Certainly, there were cheers. The poles are masts, and the cloth is the sails (probably hemp). They sway because that's what ships do. There are poles plural because a sail usually has at least one mast and upper poles on it for structural stability.

Can anyone out there confirm the dragon-on-sails reference?

[Rhoynar]

Whatever, pal.

[geogus]

its a good idea

who knows

[aryagonnakill]

Certainly possible.

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

Maybe.

[Urien the Ragged]

excellent idea, but i would think that the cloth dragon would refer to Aegon's flags flying triumphantly as his horse strides by. The King has returned.

[Slayer of Lies]

I would definitely encourage you to research this possibility further...

...but will continue to believe that fAegon is the cloth dragon until persuaded otherwise.

[aryagonnakill]

After thinking about this a little more, there are 2 reasons I find this perfectly plausible. . On top of the likely fact that GRRM will never say exactly who or what he meant in all of the prophecies. Mainly I am analyzing Quaithes prophecy to Dany where she predicts a griffen a lion, darkflame, the suns son, a kraken, and a cloth dragon on poles.

Firstly the reasons which seem to make it plausible is that all of the other warnings were for people who were actually coming to Dany, or coming to slavers bay, which we know Aegon has not/ is not. Secondly is that it makes metaphorical sense, they are flying cloth dragons, but that is what they are after, dragons. Basically it means they didn't come to help her, or for her, they came for dragons.

[Dorian Martell]

There can be multiple meanings of prophecy in these books. The cloth dragon can be dragons on sails, dragon flags over Aegon's conquests and (F)Aegon's bastardfyre heritage

[Slayer of Lies]

Quaithe's prophecy specifically mentions the "mummer's dragon." not a cloth dragon on poles. Although Quaithe does say "remember the Undying," which is where the cloth dragon vision comes from, so that lends credence to the connection of Quaithe's warning and Dany's HOTU visions.

In the HOTU, though, the cloth dragon vision is followed shortly by "mother of dragons, slayer of lies," while the dead ship captain vision is followed by "mother of dragons, bride of fire."

It seems clear to me that the various HOTU visions are followed directly by specific phrases that were deliberately put after those visions to tie them to one another.

So, personally, I tend to see fAegon (cloth dragon) as connected to "slayer of lies," where the "corpse at the prow of a ship" is your "bride of fire" tie-in.

As for Quaithe's "beware" list, it is not spelled out that these are all people coming TO her, explicitly. It's just a warning to be wary should she meet them (e.g. fAegon, the mummer's dragon).

In any event, whether Vic is the corpse at the prow, the cloth dragon (as this thread suggests) or otherwise, it is already evident that Dany needs to be wary of Vic, because he's assaulting Meereen and he's about to blow a dragon horn (to his supposed advantage). Not a ton of warning required.

Meanwhile, without the HOTU or Quaithe, Dany might not otherwise unravel that she needs to be wary of her "nephew" fAegon, and/or puzzle out that she might be best served by deposing him via revealing an untruth about him... such as his true lineage.

[aryagonnakill]

Quaithe's prophecy specifically mentions the "mummer's dragon." not a cloth dragon on poles. Although Quaithe does say "remember the Undying," which is where the cloth dragon vision comes from, so that lends credence to the connection of Quaithe's warning and Dany's HOTU visions.

In the HOTU, though, the cloth dragon vision is followed shortly by "mother of dragons, slayer of lies," while the dead ship captain vision is followed by "mother of dragons, bride of fire."

It seems clear to me that the various HOTU visions are followed directly by specific phrases that were deliberately put after those visions to tie them to one another.

So, personally, I tend to see fAegon (cloth dragon) as connected to "slayer of lies," where the "corpse at the prow of a ship" is your "bride of fire" tie-in.

As for Quaithe's "beware" list, it is not spelled out that these are all people coming TO her, explicitly. It's just a warning to be wary should she meet them (e.g. fAegon, the mummer's dragon).

In any event, whether Vic is the corpse at the prow, the cloth dragon (as this thread suggests) or otherwise, it is already evident that Dany needs to be wary of Vic, because he's assaulting Meereen and he's about to blow a dragon horn (to his supposed advantage). Not a ton of warning required.

Meanwhile, without the HOTU or Quaithe, Dany might not otherwise unravel that she needs to be wary of her "nephew" fAegon, and/or puzzle out that she might be best served by deposing him via revealing an untruth about him... such as his true lineage.

Thank you for correcting me with the first half of your post, I had clearly mistaken part of Dany's vision in the Hotu for Quaithes prophecy. But your Statement

"As for Quaithe's "beware" list, it is not spelled out that these are all people coming TO her, explicitly. It's just a warning to be wary should she meet them (e.g. fAegon, the mummer's dragon)."

No it does not spell it out, but everyone in that prophecy showed up in Mereen accept for the griffin, who was dying.

[Slayer of Lies]

Thank you for correcting me with the first half of your post, I had clearly mistaken part of Dany's vision in the Hotu for Quaithes prophecy. But your Statement

"As for Quaithe's "beware" list, it is not spelled out that these are all people coming TO her, explicitly. It's just a warning to be wary should she meet them (e.g. fAegon, the mummer's dragon)."

No it does not spell it out, but everyone in that prophecy showed up in Mereen accept for the griffin, who was dying.

Cheers.

I think one exception (Griff) can mean multiple exceptions... mummer's dragon being another one.

Not to mention that Vic and Moqorro are quite certainly "kraken and dark flame," so why muddy the waters with a "cloth dragon" reference that somehow also refers to Vic?

I think this OP is busted, but I'll stick around and see what develops...

[House Lunny]

I always thought it meant that Aegon would be killed by hanging. Probably not true but when I read it It was the image that jumped into my mind.

[AtomixIGN]

I think the cheering crowds will be the slaves of Old Volantis. And the Dragons will be on sails. And they very well make a big cloth dragon on poles and parade about the City with it tp herald their revolution.. So many possible lies - how about the lie that she'll sit upon the Iron Throne? Or the Lies the Yunkish tell about her. Its not really worth debating, but it's fun to imagine and spitball.

[kav2001c]

Cloth dragon on a pole is a flag

Question is who is carrying the banner and being cheered for by masses

Aegon will be most likely but it could also refer to Dany

[mrlukeduke]

I think the cheering crowds will be the slaves of Old Volantis. And the Dragons will be on sails.

That's what I'm starting to think too, because I think the 'stone beast breathing shadow fire' is JonCon and (f)Aegon.

This means that the three lies Dany needs to slay include one of her own, and in that triplet are the three "false heros", i.e. Stannis, Dany and (f)Aegon. Leaving Jon Snow as the true hero, revealed in the final passage of the final triplet (the blue flower representing royalty).

[Lummel]

...This means that the three lies Dany needs to slay include one of her own, and in that triplet are the three "false heros", i.e. Stannis, Dany and (f)Aegon. Leaving Jon Snow as the true hero, revealed in the final passage of the final triplet (the blue flower representing royalty).

Isn't it a bit strange for the undying to tell Daenerys that she is a false hero, more no true dragon, in such a roundabout way?

[Slayer of Lies]

Dany also states that the mummer's dragon (Quaithe) IS a cloth dragon on poles (Undying), while Tyrion is warned by a different source of a false dragon or dragons (Moqorro). I tend to take these all as one in the same, as told by different "prophetic bodies."

Kind of like how TPTWP and AAR are different cultural names for the same being... fAegon is all three "dragons" in one.

That said, I do like the Volantene navy interpretation, at least in terms of continuing a symbolic theme. But if Dany interprets the navy as the partial fulfillment of the slayer of lies prophecy, then she might no longer be on alert for fAegon...

[mrlukeduke]

Thank you for correcting me with the first half of your post, I had clearly mistaken part of Dany's vision in the Hotu for Quaithes prophecy. But your Statement

"As for Quaithe's "beware" list, it is not spelled out that these are all people coming TO her, explicitly. It's just a warning to be wary should she meet them (e.g. fAegon, the mummer's dragon)."

No it does not spell it out, but everyone in that prophecy showed up in Mereen accept for the griffin, who was dying.

I always wondered why the mummer's dragon came with the sun's son (then didn't show up), while Tyrion (lion) is paired with JonCon (griffin). Why do we have JonCon in one and (f)Aegon in another? Why are they separate?

It happens again later in the triplet prophecies, if we assume the stone beast is JonCon and 'shadow fire' is (f)Aegon's Blackfyre blood. Because that clashes with the 'cloth poles', or seems like a redundancy. Even assuming the 'stone beast' is the wolf-dragon skinchanging hybrid (Jon Snow), we still have Jon in it twice (again at the end, 'blue flower').

I personally think the corpse with grey lips is the Shrouded Lord, and if we take the cloth poles to be Volantene ships, then it seemingly arrives on time from Quaithe's sequence, i.e. after the sun's son. However if the cloth poles are ship masts, is it Euron arriving and not Victarion?

[aryagonnakill]

Cheers.

I think one exception (Griff) can mean multiple exceptions... mummer's dragon being another one.

Not to mention that Vic and Moqorro are quite certainly "kraken and dark flame," so why muddy the waters with a "cloth dragon" reference that somehow also refers to Vic?

I think this OP is busted, but I'll stick around and see what develops...

I considered that but then figured it was entirely plausible that the kraken is Euron.