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The Fate of The Lannister Siblings (A Lenghty Prediction)


The King Of Limbs

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Just for speculation sake, we should consider whether the word Valonqar is strictly familial, or if it could refer to any number of members of one of the various brotherhoods Cercei has been making foes in. It could be a member of the Night's Watch, or maybe even Danerys' Queensgaurd, but a member of the BwB or Kingsgaurd seems more likely.

That being said, a literal "little brother" is more likely IMO.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I really like this theory.

I don't think Jaimie will survive Casterly Rock, and Tyrion will become lord of the Rock as the only living Lannister after the completion of the Lannister tragedy arc (exactly how it finishes I don't know).

This way makes sense because of Tywin's want for the the Lannister bloodline to survive - obviously a fitting tragedy and the worse way Tywin could want the Lannister turn-out to happen.

Also, Tyrion was once in charge of making sure the sewrage system works properly in Casterly Rock - again completely foiling the original antagonistic Lannister blueprint. I was thinking maybe they will invade via the sewer, but this happened in Meeren. Perhaps it's a good way for the idea of Jaimie surviving in that he could escape via the sewers as directed by Tyrion, and then head to The Wall to play his part as part of the new nightwatch, and as a way of regaining his honour as a protector of the realm.

I also think we will see the end of the Iron Throne at the end of tWoW, a perfect prelude for these happenings in the last book. Or maybe this arc will be concluded at the end of tWoW.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just had an interesting thought.



I had mentioned that Tyrion will free Jaime from imprisonment at the hands of Dany. What if Dany is the one to have Tyrion executed? It could be a pretty powerful moment, especially if Tyrion accepts it and dies having achieved a sort of inner peace. I think it would have potential to be both controversial and awesome. In other words, perfectly GRRM.


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I love this theory, especially the part were tyrion helps Jamie escape. After they escape from the rock I could see tyrion asking Jamie about where they should go and Jamie saying something like "after all these years of wearing white I think I look better in black". Then after some time passes I think Jamie will die saving jon. I think that would be a nice ending to his story, dying for the king even though he lost his white cloak. I think tyrion is going to die by somehow sacrificing himself to save the realms of men. The reason I believe this is because grrm said the series would have a bittersweet ending like the lord of the rings. I think all of the lannisters along with the boltons, the cleganes and littlefinger are all going to die by the end of the series because of the curse of harrenhall. prior to the begining of the series every family that ever held harrenhall went extinct. Tywin, Joffrey and Janos Slynt are all dead, the hound is either dead or in the faith unable to pass on the clegane name, the mountain is either dead or some type of zombie. I think somewhere in the next two books it will tell why it is cursed. my theory is that the children of the forest helped build it like they did the wall and possibly storms end, and that harren the black had a deal with the children of the forest that they broke which cursed the castle and anyone that ever owns it.


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  • 7 months later...

This is a brilliant theory and completely GRRM style. In fact I doubt even George Martin could make up a better scenario than this...



It is more than obvious that Jamie is the one who will kill Cercei and fulfill the prophesy. And for Jamie to do something like that, Cercei first has to do something extreme, something terrible. Something that will make him utterly hate her and push him over the edge.


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I love this theory, especially the part were tyrion helps Jamie escape. After they escape from the rock I could see tyrion asking Jamie about where they should go and Jamie saying something like "after all these years of wearing white I think I look better in black". Then after some time passes I think Jamie will die saving jon. I think that would be a nice ending to his story, dying for the king even though he lost his white cloak. I think tyrion is going to die by somehow sacrificing himself to save the realms of men. The reason I believe this is because grrm said the series would have a bittersweet ending like the lord of the rings. I think all of the lannisters along with the boltons, the cleganes and littlefinger are all going to die by the end of the series because of the curse of harrenhall. prior to the begining of the series every family that ever held harrenhall went extinct. Tywin, Joffrey and Janos Slynt are all dead, the hound is either dead or in the faith unable to pass on the clegane name, the mountain is either dead or some type of zombie. I think somewhere in the next two books it will tell why it is cursed. my theory is that the children of the forest helped build it like they did the wall and possibly storms end, and that harren the black had a deal with the children of the forest that they broke which cursed the castle and anyone that ever owns it.

Makes perfect sense. The curse of Harrenhall, I love it!

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Hey everyone,

I'm a long time lurker, and I wanted to share a theory I have about the fate of Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion Lannister, and their narrative arcs. I personally believe that the three of them are destined to converge at Casterly Rock in A Dream Of Spring, and that there is textual evidence to back it up. Now, I've noticed there seem to be three camps with regards to Jaime. One seems to think he's destined for Stoneheart's noose, and will die early in WOW. The second thinks he's destined to be the Valonquar, and kill Cersei, while dying in the process. The third is similiar to the second, only with Jaime surviving the encounter. Personally, I'm part of the latter.

We know the Valonqar prophecy says the "little brother" will strangle the life out Cersei, at some point. It's a pretty common conclusion on these here boards that it will be Jaime who does the deed. In order for that to happen, Jaime is going to have to survive his ordeal with LS, which means he's guaranteed to survive the first half of WOW. I don't know what he will do, or how, but I'm positive he will survive, and make his way back to Kings Landing with Brienne. My question is, what would drive Jaime to strangle his former lover in cold blood?

Meanwhile, Cersei has gone through some hellish events in Kings Landing, and I'm all but certain she is not broken. Rather, she is going to come back even more vindictive and unhinged. Her hatred for the Tyrells and the High Septon will be at an all time high, and there is no way in hell she is going to lose her trial, even if Sandor Clegane arrives in the nick of time to slay his undead brother. It will not happen - if Jaime or Cersei dies via execution early on, it will be the single most anticlimactic moment in the series. It's also important to note that GRRM has created an extremely high amount of parallels between Queen Cersei and The Mad King. For example:

- Burning The Tower of the Hand

- Her extreme paranoia regarding her court.

- Her questionable right hand man Qyburn can be viewed as a parallel to Rossart.

Now, there's a reason there was such emphasis on her burning the Tower. We know there are caches of wildfire stashed around Kings Landing, and what better way to have her revenge than to burn the city to the ground, killing everybody within. In one fell swoop it would also serve to render the Iron Throne useless, leaving characters like Stannis and Aegon to focus their attention to other things (The Others and Dany respectively.) Not saying the show is canon, but in Dany's house of the undying vision, she walks around the Red Keep, which has been burned down. I think the parallels between Cersei and Aerys are there for a reason, and it will culmulate with her burning the city down and getting the hell back to Casterly Rock by the ends of WOW.

Now Jaime, who has pretty much tarnished his entire reputation to prevent this very act from happening, will arrive at the smouldering ruin of KL. Clearly, he will break down, somehow figure out that it was Cersei's doing, and that she fled Casterly Rock with Robert Strong and Qyburn. This will lead him there (remember his dream of Casterly Rock), just as WOW is coming to a close. Now, the reason I believe he will survive the encounter with Cersei is because he still has unfinished business with Tyrion.

Speaking of Tyrion, we know is he half way across the world doing Essosian things with Essosian people. I imagine he will somehow work his magic and become a pivotal member of Dany's entourage, and by the end of WOW, be well on their way to Westeros. It's important to note that Tyrion thinks about his siblings constantly over the course of ADWD, and that Jaime's betrayal has had a complicated effect on him. Another thing that drives Tyrion is his obsession with Casterly Rock, which coincidentally, will be where Jaime and Cersei are going to be headed. I believe that he is destined to invade Casterly Rock with Dany, who will help him conquer it as a favour.

Before all of this happens, Jaime and Brienne, now sporting a fancy new Hound helmet to hide her disfigurement, will have an epic fight against Robert Strong, which ties in to Bran's dream of the golden armoured man and the hound helmeted warrior way back in AGOT. Somehow, they will win, even if Brienne dies heroically, and Jaime will have one last meeting with his sister, which will end in the prophecy of the valonquar coming to fruition, just as Tyrion arrives with Dany and her army. How ironic would it be if Tyrion even tried to save Cersei in the end, and if that would be the last thing she saw? A fitting end, for a great character.

I truly believe that Tyrion will meet Jaime at Casterly Rock because Jaime is one of the only people on Dany's shit list that remains alive, and like I said, the brothers have unfinished business. When Dany arrives at CR, her army will capture Jaime and hold him hostage in the cellars. Now, it seems only appropriate that Tyrion have a change of heart, because we all know he actually loves Jaime and won't wish death upon him. That said, he will betray Dany (betrayal for love) by freeing Jaime, repaying the favour. From a narrative standpoint, the parallel is just to strong to ignore.

To be honest, I don't really know what will happen to Jaime and Tyrion after that point, as it is anybodies guess. Some think they will end up at the wall, helping in the fight against the others. There are some interesting threads here on Jaime and Jon Snows connections that provide some evidence. I really don't know! But I do feel confident that my prediction has a chance of coming true.

I hope people can speculate here about the fate of what I consider to be the three finest characters in the series, and hope that TWOW is ripe with Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion POVS. Thanks for reading!

This is a really good theory OP! (bit late to the subject but it just popped up)

A few thoughts:

  • In some capacity Cersei has to meet Dany -another younger more beautful queen - has to be her. The impression I get from the books is that in most people's eyes the most beautiful female characters are Dany, Cersei and Sansa. I imagine Margaery is pretty attractive but not in the same league as those three. That been said Cersei now has no hair and I imagine her flowing blonde curls were a big part of her attractiveness so who knows??
  • I agree Jaime is the valonqar - I imagine the average book reader probably agrees with Cersei but why would they have numerous mentions of Jaime being the younger twin. I am a twin and I wouldn't refer to myself as the older and my sister the younger.
  • Strangling I see as being a way of killing with intense passion which Jaime would fit or maybe because they have been jailed together for their incest so Jaime doesn't have any weapons on him. If you are gonna kill someone without a weapon (or a pillow) to give them mercy I am guessing you would strangle them.
  • For whatever reason she is killed Cersei will be a broken woman when this happens and won't put up much of a fight - I am thinking back to AFFC when she is annoyed at her womanly "weak" body that is unable to fight off all the septas when she is arrested
  • I think Tyrion will be the only one of the three to survive. I think Jaime will be dying when he kills Cersei but not realise it (not sure how though) and they will die almost together. I think they will be the last characters (named characters) to die on page in the whole series as it was their relationship that essentially kicked off the whole process.
  • I reckon Tyrion will survive to be the eventual King Jon's (ugh I know :ack: ) hand (Dany will be dead) and hopefully he will reunite with Tysha though that's a bit cheesy but he deserves a nice woman!

I love the point about Brienne wearing the hound's helmet to cover her disfigurement. I need a re read I think on my first go a lot of the dreams/prophecies went a bit over my head! :eek:

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