Why does the Iron Throne even want the Iron Islands?

[Matoro]

I'd like to know exactly what the Iron Islanders have been doing all this time. They've got all these fearsome warriors and a massive fleet, but who are they fighting? Do they reave and pillage in Essos? Or are they traders?

Well they've had a giant pillaging campaigns, like ones during Dagon's Balon's and Euron's rules, but for most of time, they have just mined and farmed and fished and played finger dance with each other. When the crown has been strong, they haven't been able to follow the Old Ways. That's the whole reason why they generally don't like the throne - they are forced to live peacefully, just like everybody else south of the Wall.

[Mr Fixit]

Two rebel lords (Dagon and Balon) in 300 years, doesn't seems that bad actually. I'm more surprised that the Targs didn't get more troubles with the other great houses during their reign, one would expect Arryn, Lannister and Starks would have tried to take their kingdoms back as soon as the last dragon died, but they didn't...

True. Knowing the real medieval history, the situation in Westeros these last 300 years (and even longer, when you think about it) has actually been remarkably peaceful. OK, there were occasional wars, chiefly among Targaryens themselves, or a rebellion here and there (Skagos, Vulture King, Dagon, etc.), but all in all, not so bad. The feudal system seems to be much more stable and ordered than in the real world, also evident in all these millennia-old houses and long-established kingdoms -- otherwise it's hard to believe so many of them would still be around after all this time.

Of course, that does seem to paint the current situation in a somewhat different light. After all these thousands of years, suddenly so many Great Houses are on the verge of collapse at the same time. What's changed?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I'd like to know exactly what the Iron Islanders have been doing all this time. They've got all these fearsome warriors and a massive fleet, but who are they fighting? Do they reave and pillage in Essos? Or are they traders?

Mostly trading (and fishing). Though a couple young hotheads always earn their spurs on the Stepstones.

True. Knowing the real medieval history, the situation in Westeros these last 300 years (and even longer, when you think about it) has actually been remarkably peaceful. OK, there were occasional wars, chiefly among Targaryens themselves, or a rebellion here and there (Skagos, Vulture King, Dagon, etc.), but all in all, not so bad. The feudal system seems to be much more stable and ordered than in the real world, also evident in all these millennia-old houses and long-established kingdoms -- otherwise it's hard to believe so many of them would still be around after all this time.

Of course, that does seem to paint the current situation in a somewhat different light. After all these thousands of years, suddenly so many Great Houses are on the verge of collapse at the same time. What's changed?

Nothing. It's just that all these small wars and battles were never recorded. Or did you see any account of Osgrey/Webber during the main series? And each house got a second cousin or the like ready to take the name and continue. Five generations later, only Maesters will remember that.

[Mr Fixit]

Nothing. It's just that all these small wars and battles were never recorded. Or did you see any account of Osgrey/Webber during the main series? And each house got a second cousin or the like ready to take the name and continue. Five generations later, only Maesters will remember that.

Still, drawing from real-world historical experiences, it is strange that so many ancient houses still survive millennia later.

[Lord Reaver]

Mostly trading (and fishing). Though a couple young hotheads always earn their spurs on the Stepstones.

That's underrepresenting those who follow the Old Ways a bit, I think. There's a fairly large minority that still reave part-time, as it were. Euron is the only one to do so full-time anymore, though (never a day away from the Old Way or something, I think the wording is in the books).

[Alistair's Pantaloons]

Ned and Robert should've killed everyone there when squashing their pathetic rebellion the first time. They could've done it easily. Why not? Balon and his seed will never contribute anything positive to Westeros and only sow misery throughout the land. I would like the see all the Ironborn genocided by the end of this series.

If I'd lived in Westeros, I'd have gladly beheaded them all, but at the very least, they should have killed Balon as punishment for the rebellion.

[Mad Monkey]

Ned and Robert should've killed everyone there when squashing their pathetic rebellion the first time. They could've done it easily. Why not? Balon and his seed will never contribute anything positive to Westeros and only sow misery throughout the land. I would like the see all the Ironborn genocided by the end of this series.

If I'd lived in Westeros, I'd have gladly beheaded them all, but at the very least, they should have killed Balon as punishment for the rebellion.

I'm sensing some faint traces of anti-ironborn sentiment here.

[Minstral]

I'm sensing some faint traces of anti-ironborn sentiment here.

And an opinion that I saw in an old thread where the user was advocating the same idea. So I'll say it again.

To attempt to put to death an entire chain of Islands that are probably the size of Britain is asinine and not going to happen in a medieval setting. Showing such an about stance from the norm of pardoning foes will instead turn men against you, as it would in the case of Robert.

[PrimeRhaegar]

easier to control if they are look at all the "legal" raiding that stopped when they are under the authority of the IT and will face a united front of 6 other kingdoms.

[Alistair's Pantaloons]

And an opinion that I saw in an old thread where the user was advocating the same idea. So I'll say it again.

To attempt to put to death an entire chain of Islands that are probably the size of Britain is asinine and not going to happen in a medieval setting. Showing such an about stance from the norm of pardoning foes will instead turn men against you, as it would in the case of Robert.

It will make them fear the leader. There's no way that letting Balon go was not a stupid decision.

[Hank Scorpio]

Fubar

[Yukle]

The Iron Islands were one of the Seven Kingdoms Aegon conquered. At the time, though, it also held dominion over the Riverlands. Since House Tully rose in revolt over house Harren, and willingly joined Aegon's conquest, they received the lands of the Trident.

The Iron Islands are therefore a remnant of a much larger region, who are treated as a distinct land despite being nowhere near their former strength. The Ironborn, who took heavy losses during Aegon's conquest, probably swallowed the bitter pill of losing most of their land in the hopes of revolting again one day. Throughout history, they have raided the Reach and the North. Until very recently it seems that all their efforts were soon repelled. But, given the history of the Reach and Dorne, it's not as though they're unique in restless border disputes.

Why keep them? Because it's a way to offer incentives to pacify their leaders. The King on the Iron Throne can roll his eyes when they revolt and say, "Fine then, just cut their taxes for a while," or, "Give them some crappy rocks off the coast of the Reach, make it seem like we'll give them more one day."

Or, and I'm not sure if this really happened, "Marry one of the bloke's sons to some mainland daughter. He'll inherit a castle."

As Tywin says, some wars are won with quills and paper. ;)

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Still, drawing from real-world historical experiences, it is strange that so many ancient houses still survive millennia later.

The japanese imperial family is at least two millennia old.

The hethite royal family was ~250.000 years old (officially).

There is also the custom that heirs through the female line retain the old name. That's the way the thrones of Europe changed dynasties in 99% of all cases, but here, they changed the name. That's the main difference.

[Mr Fixit]

The hethite royal family was ~250.000 years old (officially).

So were they... homo erectus, neanderthal maybe? ^_^

[Bright Blue Eyes]

So were they... homo erectus, neanderthal maybe? ^_^

Yes, presumably. Or the "histories" were made-up :bs: .

it's the same in Westeros. The learned (and interested) 0.0001% question them all the time, all five of them that say anything about history. The others don't care.

[Pod The Impaler]

Can the Iron Islands be worth the hassle of keeping them? Their attitude "We do not Sow" and the geography of rocky wild swept islands can't be very productive. I imagine they scrape enough food to survive but can they really be making enough of a surplus to be payin much in taxes to the crown?

Culturally they worship a different god and they don't tend to marry outside the islands.

They may be good fighters but would they make good soldiers in a regular army?

I can understand trying to keep them in line but there doesn't seem to be a garrison of Iron Throne tropps on the island to keep them in line. They seem to be left alone as long as they don't rebel.

When someone decides to rule "all" of the Seven Kingdoms, they inevitably decide that must include the Iron Islands. Truthfully, Skagos or Bear Island are likely even more bleak, but they control them.

I wonder if any of the more nutty Targs ever tried to also "conquer" lands beyond the Wall, but for whatever reason it does not seem worthwhile despite its size.

The Iron Islands left independent would be a constant irritant, forming navies and raising the Westerlands, Riverlands, North, Reach, etc.

However, it is more curious that no prior Lannisters (or other mainland lords) sought to conquer the Iron Islands outright. (Well, that we know of so far.) Or for that matter, it's also weird that the Ironborn do not make inroads by marriage and start gathering more and more might along the west coast of Westeros. Once their rule spread deep into Westeros - not that long ago, so you would think that it is plausible they would rebuild their blood ties, and try to become major players again. Sure, they "do not sow", but really to the average feudal serf how different as rulers would they be compared to other lords ? They could build up their rule & alliances along the lands of the west coast, plant their seed in many a maiden, and still not have to be reduced to tillers of soil so long as they remain the warrior elite that rules.

Instead, they try to act like medieval 1%-ers and get their asses handed to them every few generations. Asha, Theon, Euron and Rodrik all seem dissatisfied with the Ironborn's lot in life, with good reason.

[Mad Monkey]

I've always wondered about how the ironborn who do choose to reave in Essos are perceived. Do the Essosi consider them to be agents of the Iron Throne when they do that or do they understand that they are just lone bandits unconnected with official government?

[Arya kiddin']

They're all mindless goats up there, they do need a shepherd.

[Ours if the Fury]

Because it is a distinction of westros, a part of westros…

and so the king by right should have law over it… so why not have it??

[Lord Reaver]

However, it is more curious that no prior Lannisters (or other mainland lords) sought to conquer the Iron Islands outright. (Well, that we know of so far.) Or for that matter, it's also weird that the Ironborn do not make inroads by marriage and start gathering more and more might along the west coast of Westeros. Once their rule spread deep into Westeros - not that long ago, so you would think that it is plausible they would rebuild their blood ties, and try to become major players again. Sure, they "do not sow", but really to the average feudal serf how different as rulers would they be compared to other lords ? They could build up their rule & alliances along the lands of the west coast, plant their seed in many a maiden, and still not have to be reduced to tillers of soil so long as they remain the warrior elite that rules.

Instead, they try to act like medieval 1%-ers and get their asses handed to them every few generations. Asha, Theon, Euron and Rodrik all seem dissatisfied with the Ironborn's lot in life, with good reason.

Lannisters wouldn't stand a chance trying to conquer the Iron Islands. Just getting soldiers onto the islands itself requires a fleet the size of which the Lannisters have never had. The Redwynes come close, but it would be a massive gamble indeed, and if they lose...well, the Arbor would be open to be ravaged and reaved in a large scale. I bet the Ironborn would love that.

Why the Ironborn haven't tried to make inroads politically/through marriage ? Well, they have. Some of them. We have examples of Ironborn/Greenlander marriages, though they are few and the cultural differences are quite an obstacle indeed.